Talk:Mo's Restaurants

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Contents

[edit] Deletion tag

The deletion tag for this article does not seem at all appropriate. It is not advertising and I am in no way affiliated with the company and I have taken great care to follow the Wiki notability and verifiability guidelines. Mo Niemi was a significant and notable Oregon business woman and her restaurants are nationally recognized and have been the recipient of significant notice in the Small Business Community nationwide. The article as originally added has all the major references cited inline for any statement I thought could be contested and I am in the process of adding additional ones not currently available online as well. In addition I am linking the article to other appropriate Wiki categories such as Rogue Ales, Sometimes a Great Notion and to the City of Newport, Oregon and to WP:WPOR (Oregon projects) for review and assessment.Awotter 06:47, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

The speddy, let alone an AFD is not proper. Also this does not read like an advertiement. If it was, then the PR firm would have to be fired. It may not be the most neutral coverage of the topic, but it is not ad like. Articles on companies inherently will appear somewhat like ads to the untrained eye, but unless they are saying to the effect: Best food in town, located at 1st & Main streets, open 5am to 10pm daily, and check out our daily specials then its not ad like. Aboutmovies 07:40, 9 November 2007 (UTC)
I am reviewing NPOV guidelines and will make appropriate changes while trying to keep the "flavor" in the article if you'll pardon the pun Awotter 07:50, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Combined References and Notes

It was pointed out that having separate sections might be considered non-standard so I did combine the two, but also added a Bibliography section to indicate the book, while used as a reference, also contains information beyond the scope of the article, namely more biographical information on Mo Niemi and family and that seems to meet the style guideline as I understand it. Awotter 09:57, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Review of the article

I've browsed through the article and it looks good up to the Legacy section. That section looks more like a travel guide type of review. Quotes should be kept to a minimum, and that section is dominated by them. Remember, its an encyclopedia, so try to think what an entry would look like for a print version. Use the quoted info and turn it into encyclopedic info. Also, footnote 8 (this is also something I was talking about with Rogue Ales) should really be limited to the reference info. The rest of the info needs to be integrated into the body of the article. Again, encyclopedias do not usually have much in the way of footnotes, Wikipedia mainly uses it to help with verification of source material. Academic journals use them, but Wikipedia does not use them much for commentary. Think of it this way, the reader would have to really interrupt their reading to get that info, and that's only if they choose to look at the footnotes (unlike in a print version where they can just look at the bottom of the page). Many readers tend to skip footnotes, so in essence that material is lost to the reader. Take a look at Cheese and other food FA class articles where you will not see that type of footnote very often. FA being the examples of how articles should look, these are a good resource to use when trying to see elements of the manual of style in action. Aboutmovies 00:41, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for reviewing it and the suggestions, my hope is to develop enough information to split the article between a bio article of Mo Niemi and the restaurants, I believe there is and am making new notes now. I did not know when I started the article that Mo's is actually structured somewhat uniquely, the original restaurant and two others constitute Mo's Enterprises, the rest are under a corporation that also includes several seafood processing/oyster production facilities. I will add the additional material soon and rework the section to make it less "travelogue". Stylistically it would be nice to meet encyclopedic criteria while retaining some of the details that should help make clear why Mo's is notable enough for Wikipedia. I do differ on one point a bit, the footnotes guideline does state that footnotes can be used to expand information that would otherwise clutter the main article. If someone reads the article they can at least see at a glance what content from the reference is relevant and some of the context other than just seeing a list of links they may or may not visit. In this case I did not think that just including the quote alone would reflect the gist of the interview. Awotter 05:43, 11 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sources used

This website is a secondary source that is based on the main reference used for the article. [1].Awotter (talk) 02:54, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

It's not a reliable source. It doesn't even list an author. The article doesn't depend upon it, so no reason to keep it. I'd argue against even keeping it as an external link, though it might be worthwhile getting a third party opinion on the matter. --Ronz (talk) 03:11, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
The author is the website owner, I added other references, however, it does count as an example of an opinion or review I'd be happy to add in quotation marks for "cozy" but I was trying to make sure that there were third party views expressed. In that context I'd say it's allowable. If there is a strong consensus otherwise that's fine also.Awotter (talk) 03:18, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
Awotter, what does romantic-oregon-coast have, specifically, which makes you want to use it as a reference? If it's just to back up "cozy", then it's not much use. (Terms like "cozy" are best avoided. Instead, use something like "26 tables in a 15 x 15 foot room", for example.) That website is more of a blog than anything else. A "reliable"-flavor book has editors and fact checkers—but the website is filled with impressions and memories. Interesting reading for sure, but not obviously reliable. Google gives 464,000+ hits for Mo's Restaurant: surely there are better sources? —EncMstr 05:09, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
I already explained why above, it backs up the main source which isn't online and goes to the notability of the restaurant. Not everything that is linked to is automatically suspect because it isn't the Library of Congress, especially when it isn't used to establish a fact but is used to support a comment, opinion or statement.Awotter (talk) 05:29, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
Here are a few similar bits, but published in more reliable sources. Gosh, there's a lot written about Mo's in blogs and online forums! I waded through about 250 to find these:
Do any of these help? —EncMstr 08:23, 24 January 2008 (UTC)