User talk:ML Saturn

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[edit] Welcome

Hello, ML Saturn! Welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions to this free encyclopedia. If you decide that you need help, check out Getting Help below, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and ask your question there. Please remember to sign your name on talk pages by clicking or using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your username and the date. Finally, please do your best to always fill in the edit summary field. Below are some useful links to facilitate your involvement. Happy editing! — Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 21:19, 28 January 2008 (UTC) Getting started A tutorial • Our five pillars • Getting mentored How to: edit a page • upload and use images Getting help Frequently asked questions • Tips Where to ask questions or make comments Request administrator attention Policies and guidelines Neutral point of view • No original research Verifiability • Reliable sources • Citing sources What Wikipedia is not • Biographies of living persons Manual of Style • Three-revert rule • Sock puppetry Copyrights • Policy for non-free content • Image use policy External links • Spam • Vandalism Deletion policy • Conflict of interest • Notability The community Build consensus • Resolve disputes Assume good faith • Civility • Etiquette No personal attacks • No legal threats Community Portal • Village pump Signpost • IRC channels • Mailing lists Writing articles Be bold in editing • Develop an article The perfect article • Manual of style Stubs • Categories • Disambiguation Pages needing attention • Peer review Miscellaneous User name • User pages • Talk pages Clean up: General - Spam - Vandalism Join a WikiProject • Translation Useful templates • Tools • User scripts

[edit] Please STOP

Whether you are right or wrong - your edits on the list of schools in indonesia needs mediating - NOT reverts. You need to go to the Indonesian project page and state your case - and the other editors state their case there as well - simply revrting edits like that will attract administrators attention and you all might get WP:3RR issues placed before you. If you show no sign of mediating or wanting it - some administrators will not look kindly on that constant reverting at all. Please also read up on WP:AGF. Thanks SatuSuro 11:27, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

My apologies - it seems I forgot to put http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Indonesia#Lists_in_Indonesia_Project it seems there is a need to get this stuff off the editors talk pages and onto the project page for all to see discussion on an issue that is indeed a problem for the Indonesian project SatuSuro 22:15, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] To Do List on Talk:List of schools in Indonesia

I see you reverted my comment while the other editors may have been sarcasm, mine was serious the way in which a list with large numbers of enteries should have format and inclusion conditions considered befor estarting as it can get difficult and time consuming to alter later, also categories can be an alternative. Gnangarra 13:41, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

If you see any way to improve the list please do it. However, please state you case before deeming any of the schools currently listed as non-notable.

I havent said any school is not notable what I'm saying is its best to consider how to present the information before making an extensive list, It may be better to present the information based on regions/Islands, like schools in Java, Bali, Sumatra ...etc. Gnangarra 13:59, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

That is a good idea. Please feel free to make these edits if you can.ML Saturn (talk) 14:03, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

Unfortunately my knowledge of Indonesian Schools is limite as such editing the list would do more damage, than it would do enhancements. I can only suggest from an outside perspective. Gnangarra 14:09, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Further comment

The more I think about it - I honestly think the whole idea of a list should be abandoned - and if anyone has either time or the energy to even write a few good articles about a few of the notable schools of Indonesia - that in itself would be far more valuable exercise - the sheer size and diversity of the population is one thing to try for a whole country and all its schools is foolhardy to say the least - if anything the sheer number of schools is really a serious drawback to any idea of a list - as to how one might choose even 20 notable from each of the islands or provinces is problematic as well - by what criteria of notable - and then I would challenge any editor on either english or indonesian wikipedia to find good reliable third party sources that would stand up as adequately independent and not on line rubbish - the more I think about it the project and the idea is somewhat bizarre.

If you have any third party information about a school (not just its own website) that adequately meets WP:V and WP:N within the vast education thing in wikipedia - then go ahead and write an article and forget the list. The more I think about what has happened so far - it is going about things in the wrong direction - if you end up with 10, 20 or 50 articles that are adequately cited and referenced - make sure you separate them into islands, provinces - and please take this in good faith.

If you want a real headache/nightmare - I have a 1991 book of the post codes of every kecamatan in indonesia (Kode Pos - Kecmatan se Indonesia - extracted from the then current Buku Pintar Nusantara)- If I ever find anyone in english wikipedia trying to do anything with that sort of stuff into this project - SatuSuro 14:36, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

• I have subsequently sent the message to those recently involved- the following:

• Indonesian School list

I have thought about it carefully - it is crazy - proyek gila - in Indonesian - I will try to ask all involved for it to be abandoned SatuSuro 14:38, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

If you really want a detailed explanation as to why - I am only too happy to do so without swearing in javanese or indonesian - and taking a large space in your talk page SatuSuro 14:43, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

I think that you are prematurely giving up, right when the editors of List of schools in Indonesia were finally taking an interest in it. You are right when you say the list is crazy. Yet I do not think it should be abandoned. I think it should be eventually, once the list of schools increases, be converted into a list of lists of the schools of the various cities/provinces/islands in Indonesia rather than a bare unfeasible list written purely in alphabetical order. I'm sorry if I am misinterpreting your intentions, but deeming it impossible to complete a massive task is not what put 2,250,000 articles on Wikipedia. Thank you for your efforts to mediate these recent disputes.-- ML Saturn (talk) 15:15, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Remove talk page comments

Do you realize that removing or modifying comments made by other people on talk pages is not permitted under the policies of Wikipedia? See Wikipedia:TALK#Others.27_comments. You may face administrative action if you do this again. (Caniago (talk) 14:11, 1 March 2008 (UTC))

Yes I do, but please try to stop the repeated personal attacks. This is also an offence.ML Saturn (talk) 14:18, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

You obviously don't understand what a personal attack is. I did not make any attack on you personally, I'm merely commenting on your work which is an entirely different thing. (Caniago (talk) 14:52, 1 March 2008 (UTC))