Talk:Miyamoto Musashi

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Good article Miyamoto Musashi was one of the good articles, but it has been removed from the list. There are suggestions below for improving the article to meet the good article criteria. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
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[edit] i think Musashi should redirect here

what do you think? --AnY FOUR! 08:30, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

I don't think that'd be good. As the Musashi page says, there's more than one Musashi. Just with "Musashi" and nothing else, I'd assume you could be talking about this man, Musashi Province, or the Japanese_battleship_Musashi. -Tadakuni 15:22, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

I'd have to agree with Tadakuni on this one; there are other subjects that are called "Musashi", so I don't think it'd be advisable to go through with a redirect. --SilentAria talk 15:27, 14 September 2007 (UTC)
Ditto. Just for kicks, I ran a Google search. The hits were not as unaminously for Miyamoto Musashi as I'd like to see if we were to redirect a disambig page here. --Gwern (contribs) 20:32 16 September 2007 (GMT)
Musashi should direct to the disambiguation page "Musashi" as it does at present. With multiple meanings/usages of the word, this should not even be a topic for debate! --MChew 01:05, 17 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Musashi "Disliked" Shinto?

I find this hard to believe. I'm going to do some searching of my own, but I think that whoever initially wrote that section may have confused Shintō the religion-- 神道 in Japanese-- with Shintō-ryū the sword form 神道流. These are by no means the same thing. -Tadakuni 06:37, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

That seems likely. Off the top of my head, he doesn't write disparagingly of Shinto or Buddhism in stuff like the Dokkodo. --Gwern (contribs) 01:38 8 October 2007 (GMT)

[edit] Miyamoto Musashi = Musashi Miyamoto?

I'm just curious, but wouldn't it be more appropriate to have Musashi's name as Musashi Miyamoto rather than Miyamoto Musashi? MastaFighta 17:33, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

It wouldn't. Wikipedia has a "rule" that anyone 1868 on is "first name-last name," and anyone before that is "last name, first name" (traditional Japanese order). Besides, Musashi isn't his given name, it's a title-- the shortened form of Musashi no kami. If he were born after 1868, you'd have to give his name as "Genshin Shinmen," because "Genshin" was the closest thing he had to the Western concept of a "given name." -Tadakuni 17:36, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

I see, I wasn't aware there was a rule/guideline for names. Thanks for informing me. MastaFighta 18:35, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

I know it's out there, sorry I can't recall the precise place to look for where it's written...should be somewhere on Wikipedia:WikiProject Japan. -Tadakuni 19:09, 12 November 2007 (UTC)
You can find it in the manual of style at Wikipedia:Manual of Style (Japan-related articles)#Names of historical figures. Fg2 22:17, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

Alright, thanks a lot. MastaFighta 04:11, 13 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Which side in the Osaka Castle campaigns?

The timeline says "1614-1615 31-32 Joins the troops of Tokugawa Ieyasu in the Winter and Summer campaigns at Osaka Castle." But the siege of Osaka article says "History indicates that the legendary swordsman Miyamoto Musashi participated in the battle on the Toyotomi side." So which side did he fight with, the defending Toyotomi or the besieging and victorious Tokugawa? Maproom (talk) 11:41, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

IIRC, Tokitsu says that it isn't clear which side he fought on, but he seems to lean towards the Toyotomi side. I think this is covered in more detail somewhere other than the timeline in the article. --Gwern (contribs) 17:21 24 November 2007 (GMT)
According to Victor Harris's intro to A Book of Five Rings, Musashi fought on the Toyotomi side at Sekigahara and on the Tokugawa side at Osaka; I'll return presently with the precise sentence and citation. -Tadakuni (talk) 23:55, 24 November 2007 (UTC)
"In 1614 and again in 1615 he [Musashi] took the opportunity of once more experiencing warfare and siege. Ieyasu laid siege of Osaka castle where the supporters of the Ashikaga family (sic) were gathered in insurrection. Musashi joined the Tokugawa forces in both winter and summer campaigns, now fighting against those he had fought for as a youth at Seki ga Hara..." -Harris, Introduction to A Book of Five Rings, pp. 17-18. Now, granted, he misnames them as Ashikaga rather than Toyotomi, but still...also, according to the Japanese wiki article on Musashi, it says it is commonly believed that he sided with the Toyotomi at the Osaka campaign; however, this is groundless. He actually served under Mizuno Katsushige, under the command of Katsushige's son Katsutoshi.... -Tadakuni (talk) 00:01, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Self Taught?

The martial arts section regarding Musashi should be expanded further. What is really awesome about Musashi, is how every single swordsman he fought (and killed) thought they were going to win simply because they studied at "prestigious" sword schools. Musashi, being little more than a rufian who was self taught, killed them all.

As they say, pride commeth before the fall.

Makes you wonder if education as it is currently known is really there to instruct, or, reserve knowledge for those who can afford to pay for it....

I mean, there is nothing more difficult, arguably, than the practice of martial arts. Of all things, even more than academic work, you need a teacher in martial arts. Musashi basically demonstrated that teachers are not needed, that one can seek and study knowledge on their own. It is insulting to teachers of all classes, and to all educational bodies. Its insulting, and yet, intriguing.

which is why the martial arts section shild be exployred further. yes the grammer and punctuation errors are deliberate

206.63.78.91 (talk)stardingo747 —Preceding comment was added at 15:38, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Musashi Defeated by Creator of Jodo?

Admittedly I skimmed through the article but I cannot seem to find mention of the story where he defeated but spared a bo master who through the development of the jo (shorter bo) later defeated and spared Musashi.24.83.148.131 (talk) 09:57, 3 March 2008 (UTC)BeeCier

You mean Musō Gonnosuke? -Tadakuni (talk) 15:40, 3 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] The name "Takezo"?

In the book of the Five Rings, he calls himself "Shinmen Musashi no Kami Fujiwara no Genshin", there is no "Takezo". Please could someone show me a historical prove for the name "Takezo". In almost all movies about him and his life, his birth name is Shinmen Takezo and the people call him "Takezo-san". His well known childhood name was Bennosuke. If his given name would be really Takezo, why he didn´t mention it in "The book of five rings"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.58.216.111 (talk) 00:28, 18 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Clarification (under Biography :: Travels and duels)

They faced off, and Musashi struck a single blow, per their agreement.

So, does this mean that they agreed to let Musashi take the first blow? Oddity- (talk) 05:46, 6 June 2008 (UTC)