Talk:Mixed martial arts

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This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Mixed martial arts article.
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To-do list for Mixed martial arts:

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  • Article needs to be better referenced. Related to dos:
    • Go through article and mark everything that needs a citation with {{fact}}.
    • Find appropriate references. --CasualFighter 20:55, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Add images of MMA striking (stand-up and ground) and clinch game. So far, we have ground grappling only. --CasualFighter 20:59, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
  • Cut the article size down to recommended size (32K) by splitting info into seperate articles --CasualFighter 17:08, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
37K near enough --Nate1481( t/c) 14:45, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
  • Removing non-notable information and bias from this article. -- Crazyknight 00:43, 24 December 2006 (UTC)
Done?
Archive
Archives


Contents

[edit] Information about MMA Organizations?

This may be wishful thinking, but if you come to this article to read about MMA, you don't get a sense of how many MMA organizations there are, and their size. Now I agree that the list at the bottom of the article is useful reference, but it would be nice to have a paragraph or a link to an article that gives a somewhat up to date overview of the current MMA organizations, their history and development, spheres of influence, and maybe size. In essence an overview of the organized sport as opposed to just the practice. I am thinking something along the lines as the "Organization in the United States" section in the American Football entry in the wiki. --128.103.235.157 (talk) 20:17, 23 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] MMA is not martial arts

First off it's not that mixed and they only give a few styles a chance to compete yet they claim to be the best martial art in the world, secondly MMA fighters have no honour or discipline, thirdly MMA has more rules than most other martial arts, and fourthly none of the fighters believe that qì (气)/ki (気)/gi (기) is real. 70.89.165.91 (talk) 19:34, 12 April 2008 (UTC)

First, if "it's not that mixed", you are in fact suggesting that it is mixed, but not that much. Second, your generalization that "MMA fighters have no honour..." is clearly an over-generalization. You must mean that NOT ALL MMA fighters have honor. That is also true of martial artists. Third, that MMA has "more rules than most" others, is suggesting that some martial arts have more rules than MMA. Fourth, some martial arts don't believe in qi. So, in every point you made, you have not distinguished how MMA is not a martial art. Tparameter (talk) 12:46, 13 April 2008 (UTC)
  1. Any style can compete, but only a few have proved effective; See UFC 1-5.
  2. Honour is a complex concept and to state that an entire category of people have none without evidence is both naive and dishonourable.
  3. 'Most' is again complicated, could you give a list of rules for say; Taekwondo, karate, judo, Brazilian jiu-jitsu, Muy Thai, tai chi, wing chun, kobudo, glima, boxing and wrestling and 10 of your choice for comparison?. MMA has fewer restrictions, but each is stated explicitly rather than. e.g. "you may not strike an opponent" is far more restrictive but removes the need have rules specifying when and where you can and can't strike.
  4. Have you asked them? I am sure that many believe in "breath" and others may well believe in a philosophical concept of energy flow.
Non of which would prevent it being a martial art. However, it's not a martial art but a combat sport that uses mixture martial arts. Regards --Nate1481(t/c) 09:39, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Why is it called MMA?

All of the moves aren't martial arts moves. Are people trying to say that every punch, kick and grapple ever is martial arts? I understand that the martial arts are popular but why are people making it seem like fighting in general is some asian inspired thing to do? I doubt people learned to fight from asians. —Preceding unsigned comment added by CN Guy (talk • contribs) 19:00, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Yes, every strike, block, and grab are parts of martial arts. Martial arts is a general term that does not necessarily mean anything Asian, as fencing, boxing, wrestling, savate, pankration, etc. are all martial arts that have nothing to do with Asian culture. See Historical European martial arts. hateless 19:05, 1 May 2008 (UTC)
Look at what people train to fight i.e. Martial arts! Please read that article and do some background reading. --Nate1481(t/c) 10:41, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] This isn't mixed martial arts

It's ultimate fighting. 63.227.6.162 (talk) 19:12, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

So why do the UFC call it that? --Nate1481(t/c) 09:11, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
Look in a dictionary for the words mixed, martial, and arts. This resembles none of those words. 70.89.165.91 (talk) 21:31, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
Ok. Lets try:

mixed: Adjective (comparative more mixed, superlative most mixed)

  1. Having two or more separate aspects.
    I get a very mixed feeling from this painting.
  2. Not completely pure.
    My joy was somewhat mixed when my girlfriend said she was pregnant; it's a lot of responsibility.
  3. Including both men and women.
    The tennis match was mixed with a male and a female on each side.
    My son attends a mixed school, unlike my daughter, who goes to the local all-girl grammar school.
1 Would seem to cover it, as a key part of the sport is the multiple aspects.

martial: Adjective

  1. Of, relating to, or suggestive of war; warlike.
  2. Relating to or connected with the armed forces or the profession of arms or military life.
  3. Characteristic of or befitting a warrior; having a military bearing; soldierly, soldierlike, warriorlike.
Derived terms
  • court martial
  • martial art
  • martialism
  • martialist
  • martial law
  • martially
Take your pick; for 1 fighting is very 'warlike'; for 2 MMA is used in training by several militaries; and for 3 MMA fighter are frequenly refered to as warriors. Also note that 'martial art' is listed as a derived term.

arts: Noun - Plural form of art: Noun art (countable and uncountable; plural arts)

  1. (uncountable) Human effort to imitate, supplement, alter, or counteract the work of nature.
  2. (uncountable) The conscious production or arrangement of sounds, colours, forms, movements, or other elements in a manner that affects the sense of beauty, specifically the production of the beautiful in a graphic or plastic medium.
  3. (uncountable) Activity intended to make something special
  4. (uncountable) A recreation of reality according to the artist's metaphysical value-judgements
  5. (uncountable) The study and the product of these processes.
  6. (uncountable) Aesthetic value.
  7. (uncountable, printing) Artwork.
  8. (countable) A field or category of art, such as painting, sculpture, music, ballet, or literature.
  9. (countable) A nonscientific branch of learning; one of the liberal arts.
  10. (countable) Skill that is attained by study, practice, or observation.
Derived terms
  • arts and crafts
  • fine arts
  • martial arts
I think 5 and 10 are both highly relevent, while 3, 6 or 9 could all be argued.
As mentioned 'martial art' is a term in its self so:

Marital arts: Noun (plural martial arts)

  1. Commonly, any of several fighting styles which contain systematised methods of training for combat, both armed and unarmed; often practised as a sport, e.g. boxing, karate, judo, Silat, wrestling, or Muay Thai. Can also include military tactics such as infantry manoeuvres, aerial combat, and so on.
Fighting and sport both mentioned.
So what was your point exactly? --Nate1481(t/c) 13:00, 7 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] FAQ

Should we add an FAQ section at the top of this page to stop that average requirement of an explanation once a month? --Nate1481(t/c) 10:41, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Legality in Different Countries

I think it would be interesting to have information about whether or not MMA is legal in various countries. I heard it's illegal in France but they're thinking of changing the law or something. Ben 2082 (talk) 10:18, 19 April 2008 (UTC) Seems like a good idea anyone have any sources we could use to start with? --Nate1481(t/c) 10:41, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Overhaul

I've begun what I intend to be a minor overhaul of the article. It will be primarily tone-related but I want to reorganize the sections to be a bit more intuitive, as well as shortening the overall length. I'd appreciate feedback (I've done the intro) - BenTrotsky (talk) 14:53, 5 May 2008 (UTC) the intro, Overview, History, Safety to my satisfaction. Looking at ways to drastically shorten Rules and reorganize Phases of combat - BenTrotsky (talk) 17:08, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

Done - BenTrotsky (talk) 12:01, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
Where is the rules section? It was too long as we now have a separate article, but rules need a mention and the new article linked --Nate1481(t/c) 12:31, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
I linked it under Overview (which had a long spiel about rules to begin with). If that's not an appropriate place for it, feel free to change. BenTrotsky (talk) 12:41, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
I think our goal should be to break apart the overview section into other sections or merged into others. The intro section should be the overview. hateless 23:06, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Biased rules

Should it be noted in the article that one of the main reasons for grappling heavy styles early dominance in MMA was due to the rules being heavily weighted against strikers? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.72.245.138 (talk) 15:00, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

I personally don't think biased is the right term, and while I agree (To an extent), you would probably have to show this with citations for examples. Good claim: No support (At least right now). Final justice (talk) 11:04, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
http://www.completemartialarts.com/whoswho/ufc/ufcrules.htm —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.72.245.138 (talk) 03:45, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
Two points; One, those are the current rules, not those used in the early UFC's; Two a list of rules is not a source for that claim, the rules are just facts, to source that claim you would need to find a commentary on them that support you.. --Nate1481(t/c) 09:09, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
When somebody is getting pounded they can just give their opponent no other opening besides the back of their head, then the referee breaks it up. 70.89.165.91 (talk) 22:55, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
Not true. hateless 23:04, 6 May 2008 (UTC)
Ignoring how difficult it is not to leave the body open as a target, deliberately turning the back of your head will get you warned then the ref will break them up by stopping the fight. as turning the back of the head deliberately is 'not intelligently defending' yourself. --Nate1481(t/c) 14:35, 7 May 2008 (UTC)
example: If someone goes for a shoot, which is pretty common, the rules prevent almost all normal strike based counters, since you cant strike the back of the head/back/neck, and that's all you can get to while on your feet. This makes a shoot a far safer attack than it normally would be, which unbalences things.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.72.245.138 (talk • contribs)
So what about the knee to the head that has knocked out several fighters? Look there are rules in favour of grapplers and those in favour of strikers, most fighters who prefer grappling would rather stay on the ground & work slowly but they are frequently stood up if the ref feels their is insufficient action. You know why strikes to the back of the head are restricted right? --Nate1481(t/c) 16:48, 8 May 2008 (UTC)
care to name a single rule that's in favour of strikers? I'm not trying to be a bitch here, but as someone who uses a lot of strikes (in addition to locks, throws & chokes), seeing the resctirtions placed in the UFC really did seem to stand out as biased. I'm not saying that it's an insurmountable bias, but a bias none the less.
Stand up rules, as I just mentioned. encourage lay & pray tactics if taken down, get in to a minimal damage position & wait, no spiking could be argued and gloves make some locks harder to impossible --Nate1481(t/c) 16:30, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Never Back down

I think someone should put a link in to the never back down page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Never_Back_Down_(2008_film) as its all about MMA? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Natterz 666 (talk • contribs) 09:52, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Three deaths

Rolling Stone says there's been three deaths in MMA... one of them was Sam Vasquez, and the other two were outside of the US. We can assume Dedge was one of them.. anyone know who the third guys was? The article in question is here: http://www.rollingstone.com/news/story/20979941/how_dangerous_is_mma/2 hateless 08:13, 3 June 2008 (UTC)