Talk:Mittelalter rock

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Contents 1 Confusion between rock and metal 2 Moved from the article 3 Contradiction 4 Satyricon =/= Mittelalter-Rock 5 Change in article name 6 Time of cultural origins

[edit] Confusion between rock and metal

I find that this article should be related to the heavy metal genre, not rock. Indeed most bands mentionned here are metal bands, such as In Extremo, Subway to Sally, Satyricon.... and as such are very different from folk-rock or gothic rock. These bands are in fact listed in the list of heavy metal bands. I think it's inconsistent to have an article named "Medieval Metal" and have it linked to rock.

Also I disagree with the following statement: "Often, bands of this genre originally played Irish folk music or medieval market music, sometimes developing more towards heavy metal as they gained popularity." This might be the case of some bands, but I think the reverse is just as common, if not more.

I think there's a good deal of clearing up to be done to this article; it should at least have a clear link to the folk metal article, a very close genre (merging them could even be considered). Several bands are in fact mentionned in both articles (Subway to Sally, In Extremo).

Actually, I believe this article should be moved to Medieval rock and Medieval Metal should then become a redirect to that page. Perhaps Medieval Metal should then become a category of that page; however, the difference between Medieval Metal and Medieval Rock is relatively slight--the majority of bands that identify under either of these subgenres play music of both styles (i.e., Subway to Sally has recently tended more toward metal, while their earlier material tended much more toward Medieval Rock). The german article de:Mittelalter-Rock linked to this article in English, which really doesn't make any sense--it should link to Medieval rock--but that's the article I, more or less, based this one on.

I agree with you that the statement you mentioned should be deleted, or the alternative should be explained--although it does seem to be the case with most bands (at least most that I know). The article already links to Folk Rock, but I agree it should also link to Folk Metal. However, I certainly don't think the two should be merged; this article just needs to be cleaned up and expanded. Subway to Sally and In Extremo are mentioned in both articles because they play music from both genres. AmiDaniel 08:05, 8 March 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps this article should be merged with Neo-Medieval music? — Gwalla | Talk 07:38, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

No it is separate like neo-prog and progressive rock. --CircafuciX 07:51, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Moved from the article

I moved the following discussion piece by User:195.93.21.3 from the article here for discussion:

I find that this article should be related to the heavy metal genre, not rock. Indeed most bands mentionned here are metal bands, such as In Extremo, Subway to Sally, Satyricon.... and as such are very different from folk-rock or gothic rock. These bands are in fact listed in the list of heavy metal bands. I think it's inconsistent to have an article named "Medieval Metal" and have it linked to rock.

Also I disagree with the following statement: "Often, bands of this genre originally played Irish folk music or medieval market music, sometimes developing more towards heavy metal as they gained popularity." This might be the case of some bands, but I think the reverse is just as common, if not more.

I think there's a good deal of clearing up to be done to this article; it should at least have a clear link to the folk metal article, a very close genre (merging them could even be considered). Several bands are in fact mentionned in both articles (Subway to Sally, In Extremo).

Actually, I believe this article should be moved to Medieval rock and Medieval Metal should then become a redirect to that page. Perhaps Medieval Metal should then become a category of that page; however, the difference between Medieval Metal and Medieval Rock is relatively slight--the majority of bands that identify under either of these subgenres play music of both styles (i.e., Subway to Sally has recently tended more toward metal, while their earlier material tended much more toward Medieval Rock). The german article linked to this article in English, which really doesn't make any sense--it should link to Medieval rock--but that's the article I, more or less, based this one on.

Sjakkalle (Check!) 13:08, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Contradiction

Faun and Corvus Corax are listed as exemplars of the genre, but then later are specifically said to not be medieval rock. Which is it? — Gwalla | Talk 07:13, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Satyricon =/= Mittelalter-Rock

The claim that Satyricons album "Dark Medieval Times" is Medieval Rock is utterly ridiculous. It's like lumping Primordial and Clannad together because both have celtic themes. Dark Medieval Times is black metal with folk influences, which is a very different form of music. As for the lyrics, they (even though they have been lost since the release of said album) might happen to have a medieval theme, just like some Darkthrone songs for example, but there ends any similarities. Thus, I remove the part of the text here discussed. Taeronai (talk) 23:05, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Change in article name

I changed the name of the article by moving Medieval rock to Mittelalter rock. This is a more accurate term in describing a specifically German music genre, scene and movement. This name change will help to avoid original research by well-intentioned individuals who might erroneously think that the article is a catch all term for any rock band that has in one way or another flirted with medieval music briefly or extensively. As evident on this talk page, past examples include the black metal band Satyricon and the pagan folk band Faun while the history of the article reveals that Jethro Tull, Camel, Rush and Blackmore's Night have all been mentioned. There is no evidence whatsoever that any of these bands have anything to do with the Mittelalter rock of In Extremo, Subway to Sally, Morgenstein, Tanzwut, Saltatio Mortis and the many other German bands who do not have a wikipedia page yet. --Bardin (talk) 14:21, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Time of cultural origins

Well one band named Corvus Corax was formed in 1989 (very late 80s) but I understand that there might not be enough bands from that time, just maybe 2 or 3 that I've seen (and forgot). −₪ÇɨгcaғucɨҲ₪ ^kaiden 04:29, 24 February 2008 (UTC)

My understanding is that Corvus Corax did not start off as a medieval rock group but as a straightforward medieval group. No guitars or rock drums. Just bagpipes and other medieval instruments. Midway through the 1990s, they started experimenting with electronics and guitars. That eventually led to their side project Tanzwut. So that's why I opened the paragraph on Corvus Corax with the phrase "another source of inspiration". I was not able to find any reference to them being the first medieval rock band but I did found one such reference crediting Subway to Sally as "the band that set off the wave of what is known as medieval rock." If you can find any reliable reference crediting Corvus Corax as a medieval rock band from the very start of their career (or anytime before the 1990s), then feel free to add that information in the article. If you can also find reliable references on other medieval rock bands that formed in the late 1980s, then by all means add that info too and change the cultural origins to the late 80s. I must admit that I'm far from an expert on the genre. I listen to the music but I certainly have no idea what the bands are singing about because I don't speak or read German. There are probably a lot more material about the genre written in German but all that I could go with was the English stuff I found online and the stuff I found indicate that the genre had its origins in the early 1990s. --Bardin (talk) 05:20, 24 February 2008 (UTC)