Talk:Mitrovica, Kosovo
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[edit] 2004 Riots and earlier incidents
First I noticed that this phrase "...exacerbated by the presence of nationalist extremists on both sides" is somewhat POV. It equalizes Albanian and Serb violence, while it should be clear that most of the violence that occurred after 1999 was committed by Albanians in order to drive the remaining Serbs out of Mitrovica and the whole Kosovo.
The information about the 2004 riots is very obviously POV. The alleged drowning of an Albanian child is presented as the sole reason for the unrest, while it was actually the killing of a Serb teenager that predates the drowning incident, which by the way was never clarified by the authorities (this should also be mentioned in the article). It should be made clearer that the Albanian rioters where the ones who tried to enter the Serbian part of the city, while the Serbs gathered to stop them from crossing the bridge which separates the two. From photos of the riots at the bridge it is clear that the main clash occurred between KFOR troops and attacking Albanian rioters. Of course this is my interpretation of the pictures, therefore I'm asking for references to clarify the incident. Last but not least, there is no mention of the Serb victims, which clearly shows again that the article is POV.
Maybe earlier incidents like this one: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2001/02/01/wkos01.xml should also be mentioned.
I'm sure my writing here will be regarded by some as biased, so I won't even attempt to change the article myself. All I'm asking is to rewrite the concerning part in proper English, unbiased language and with clear references in order the meet NPOV Wikipedia standards. --80.219.119.16 09:48, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Bringing up Hitler...
This page is a perfect example of Serbian propaganda. For example, it is mentioned that the aim of the Albanian population - most of whom are extremists - is to rid Kosovo of its Serb population. I believe that the author(s) of this page "forgot" to mention that Serb forces supported by some Kosovo Serb extremists started the Kosovo War in 1999. Serb military and paramilitary forces murdered hundreds and hundreds of Kosovo Albanian civilians. Men, women, elderly people and children, were abused before being brutality murdered by the Serbs. These Serb extremists wanted Kosovo to become 100% Serb and they once again tried to commit mass killings and genocide as they did in Bosnia.
However, this is not important according to the author(s) of this page. This proves that the this page is not neutral and is unmistakeably pro-Serb. This page fails to acknowledge the brutal crimes that were committed by the Serbs. It focuses only on the crimes that were committed by the Albanians as revenge for the mass killings committed by the Serbs that started the war. Once again, we have a case where the role of the Serbs is that they are poor victims of someone else's crimes. This was also the case in Croatia and Bosnia where Serb propaganda claimed that Croat Fascists and Islamic fundamentalists tried to get rid of its Serb minorities. This was claimed, at the same time, when Serbs were killing Croat and Bosnian Muslim civilians. These were actions committed totally with no reason what so ever and with no crimes being committed by Croats and Bosnian Muslims. Later when the wars escalated there were crimes committed by all sides. However, this does not justify the actions of the Serbs and does not change the fact that around 90% of all war crimes committed in Croatia and Bosnia were committed by the Serbs. The sooner, the Serbs and the whole International Community accepts this fact that the wars were started by Serb extremists supported by many but not all Serbs, the sooner the reconciliation can begin. It is important to note that some Serbs were manipulated by the Serb media propaganda into supporting the extremists. Nevertheless, this does not change that most Serbs were open and positive to the Great Serbia project that had the aim to have all Serbs in one country where Serbs ruled over everything and everyone.
One can compare this to Adolf Hitler's demand called Lebensraum where Hitler wanted to have all German minorities in Europe incorporated into the Great Germany.
Serbs wanted something very similar, which is basically to have all Serbs in a Great Serbia where all other people could choose either to live in suppression, get murdered or flee. However, the easiest way was to committ mass killings and genocide as the Nazis did. In this way, Great Serbia could not really be threatened in the future. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.93.2.84 (talk • contribs) 16:59, 24 May 2005 (UTC)
- During World War II and the Holocaust, Kosovar Albanians killed 10,000 Kosovo Serbs and expelled 100,000. Kosovo-Metohija was made a part of a Greater Albania by Adolf Hitler and Benito Mussolini. Hitler and Mussolini realized the Greater Albania ideology established by the 1878 League of Prizren. Albanian-settled areas of the Balkans - Kosovo-Metohija, western Macedonia, southern Montenegro - were incorporated in a Greater Albania. The Greater Albania Kosovar Albanian nationalist movement murdered Kosovo Serb civilians and took over their lands and houses. Kosovo Serb women were raped. Kosovo Serb Orthodox priests were arrested, tortured, and murdered. Serbian Orthodox churches and monasteries were attacked and destroyed. Serbian monuments, cemeteries, and gravestones were desecrated and demolished. The Greater Albania nationalist movement formed the Balli Kombetar, the Albanian Kosovo Committee, and the Skanderbeg Nazi SS Division, two-thirds of whose members were Kosovar Albanian Muslims. Kosovar Albanian Muslims played a major role in the Holocaust, the murder of European Jews. Kosovar Albanian Nazi SS troops participated in the roundup of Kosovo Jews who were later killed at Bergen-Belsen. What occurred in Kosovo during World War II was genocide. The mainstream accounts of World War II have censored and covered up the Kosovar Albanian role in the genocide against Kosovo Serbs and the role of Kosovar Albanians in the Holocaust. The Nazi past of Kosovo remains an untold story. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 64.180.13.232 (talk • contribs) 10:31, 27 November 2005 (UTC)
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- People, this is an article about Mitrovica, not about the entire history of Kosovo, so none of that is relevant. Please keep discussions not related specifically to Mitrovica out of here. Edrigu 21:58, 29 November 2005 (UTC)
These are some of the facts:
Since NATO came to Mitrovica:
500 Gypsies were put in a UNMIK refugee camp in the shadow of the slagheaps of the Trepca mines after they were burned out by Albanian extremeists. 26 children have died in the last 6 years from lead poisoning in the camps.Information on the Kosovar Roma Mitrivica camp is here
Albanians have expelled Serbs, Roma, Tutrks, Bosniaka, Ashkali and Kalderash minorieties for the crime of not alone being not moslem (Ashkali, Bosniaks and Turks are) but of not being Albanian. It is a modern day Fascist policy. Gypsies have been welcomed, and feel safe in Serb areas both in Kosovo - particularily Mitrovica - and in main Serbia itself.
Irish troops were forced to withraw by Albanian mobs trying to wipe out the Serb section in Mitrovia on last St Patricks day 12 months.
Paul Polansky - In December 2004, the City Council of Weimar, in northeast Germany, unanimously awarded its prestigious Human Rights Award to him, ... works in the Trepca mines with the Roma, tells all in his website and book —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.41.197.158 (talk • contribs) 20:38, 14 December 2005 (UTC)
[edit] Offical name
The official name of this city is Mitrovicë see UN documentation.--Hipi Zhdripi 17:11, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
If sombody has UN accepted evidence that the name of the city is not Mitrovicë but is Kosovska Mitrovica, then this article must be under the name: Mitrovicë and the page named "Mitrovica" must be redirect. My evidence you can see in UNMIK oficiale page and documentation.--Hipi Zhdripi 00:38, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
- The territory is under temporary UN administration, as ruled in Resolution 1244 (1999), adopted by the United Nations Security Council on 10 June 1999[1], where the UN reafirmed its commitment to the sovereignty and territorial integrity of the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia (and its sucessor state, the Union of Serbia and Montenegro, after the country changed its name). Therefore, it is not up to the UN to invent new geographical denominations. I also like to remind you that this is English language wikipedia, so please make sure your contributions are up to standard regarding syntax and spelling, together with the use of commonly recognised geographic denominations (i.e. (Kosovska) Mitrovica is common in English, Mitrovice is not). Regards, Asterion 12:47, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
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- Please continue the discussion under the "UPDATE NAME" heading (below). Klungel (talk) 12:11, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
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[edit] United Nations Law in Kosovo
The use of the city names in English Language (newer version from the UN liable pilari in Kosovo for such think )
The original page of the Law (1. in albanian L., 2.Serbian L.)
- http://www.unmikonline.org/regulations/unmikgazette/03albanian/A2000regs/RA2000_43.htm
- http://www.unmikonline.org/regulations/unmikgazette/04serbian/SC2000regs/RSC2000_43.pdf
The UN Law in Kosovo says that the only official names are the names presented in >A< every thinks als is out of Law. This is for albanian language.
RREGULLORe NR. 2000/43 UNMIK/REG/2000/43 27 korrik 2000 Mbi numrin, emrat dhe kufinjtë e komunave ------------------------------------------- Përfaqësuesi Special i Sekretarit të Përgjithshëm, Në pajtim me autorizimin e tij të dhënë me rezolutën 1244 (1999) të datës 10 qershor 1999 të Këshillit të Sigurimit të Kombeve të Bashkuara, Duke marrë parasysh Rregulloren nr. 1999/1 të datës 25 korrik 1999, të ndryshuar, të Misionit të Administratës së Përkohshme të Kombeve të Bashkuara në Kosovë (UNMIK) mbi autorizimin e Administratës së Përkohshme në Kosovë dhe Rregulloren Nr. 1999/24 të datës 12 dhjetor 1999 të UNMIK-ut mbi ligjin në fuqi në Kosovë, Me qëllim të qartësimit të numrit, emrave, shtrirja dhe kufinjve të komunave para mbajtjes së zgjedhjeve komunale në Kosovë, Shpall sa vijon: Neni 1 Numri dhe emrat e komunave Kosova ka tridhjetë komuna ashtu siç figurojnë në Tabelën ‘A’ të kësaj rregulloreje. Komunikimi zyrtar nuk përmban asnjë emër për ndonjë komunë i cili nuk figuron në Tabelën ‘A’ të kësaj rregulloreje, përveç që në ato komuna ku komunitetet etnike a gjuhësore joshqiptare dhe joserbe përbëjnë një pjesë substanciale, emrat e komunave jepen edhe në gjuhët e atyre komuniteteve. Neni 2 Shtrirja dhe kufinjtë e komunave Shtrirja e çdo komune dhe kufinjtë e tyre skicohen nga zonat e tyre përbërëse kadastrale. Zonat kadastrale të cilat përbëjnë çdo komunë figurojnë në Tabelën ‘B’ të kësaj rregulloreje. Neni 3 Zbatimi Përfaqësuesi Special i Sekretarit të Përgjithshëm mund të lëshojë direktiva administrative në lidhje me zbatimin e kësaj rregulloreje. Neni 4 Ligji i zbatueshëm Kjo rregullore mbulon çdo dispozitë në ligjin e zbatueshëm e cila nuk është në përputhje me të. Neni 5 Hyrja në fuqi Kjo rregullore hyn në fuqi më 27 korrik 2000. Bernard Kouchner Përfaqësuesi Special i Sekretarit të Përgjithshëm
The UN Law in Kosovo says that the only oficele name are the names presentit in >A< every thinks als is out of Law. This is for serbian language.
UREDBA BR. 2000/43
UNMIK/URED/2000/43
27. jul 2000. godine
O BROJU, IMENIMA I GRANICAMA OP[TINA
Specijalni predstavnik Generalnog sekretara,
Shodno ovla{}ewu koje mu je dato Rezolucijom Saveta bezbednosti Ujediwenih
nacija 1244 (1999) od 10. juna 1999. godine,
Na osnovu Uredbe br. 1999/1 od 25. jula 1999. godine Privremene
administrativne misije Ujediwenih nacija na Kosovu (UNMIK), sa izmenama i
dopunama, o ovla{}ewima Privremene uprave na Kosovu i na osnovu Uredbe
UNMIK-a br. 2000/24 od 12. decembra 2000. godine o zakonu koji je u primeni na
Kosovu, <u>(hier is oficele user)</u>
U ciqu razja{wavawa broja, imena, oblasti i granica op{tina pre odr`avawa
op{tinskih izbora na Kosovu,
Ovim objavquje slede}e:
Clan 1
BROJ I IMENA OPSTINA
1.1 Kosovo ima trideset opstina kao sto je dato u Tabeli '''A''' u dodatku ovoj
Uredbi.
1.2 Zvani~na komunikacija ne mo`e da sadrzi bilo koje ime za opstinu koje
nije naziv odredjen u Tabeli A ove Uredbe, osim u onim opstinama gde etni~ke i
jezi~ke zajednice, koje nisu srpske i albanske ~ine znatan deo stanovni{tva, gde
se imena op{tina daju i na jezicima tih zajednica.
Clan 2
PODRU^JA I GRANICE OP[TINA
Podru~je svake op{tine i wene granice su ocrtane wenim sastavnim
katastarskim zonama. Katastarske zone koje ~ine svaku op{tinu su odre|ene u
Tabeli B prilo`enoj u dodatku ovoj Uredbi.
Clan 3
PRIMENA
Specijalni predstavnik Generalnog sekretara mo`e da donese administrativno
uputstvo u vezi sa primenom ove Uredbe.
Clan 4
ZAKON KOJI JE U PRIMENI
Ova Uredba zamewuje svaku odredbu zakona koji je u primeni a koja nije saglasna
sa wom.
Clan 5
STUPAWE NA SNAGU
Ova Uredba stupa na snagu 27. jula 2000. godine.
Bernar Ku{ner
Specijalni predstavnik Generalnog sekretara
tabel of contens >A<
TABELA ‘A’ (alb) RASPORED A (ser.) Emrat e komunave (alb.)IMENA OPSTINA (serb) Albanski Srpski 01 Deçan \Decani 02 Gjakovë \Djakovica 03 Gllogovc \Glogovac 04 Gjilan \Gnilane 05 Dragash \Dragas 06 Istog \Istok 07 Kaçanik \Kacanik 08 Klinë\ Klina 09 Fushë Kosovë\ Kosovo Polje 10 Kamenicë \Kamenica 11 Mitrovicë \Kosovska Mitrovica 12 Leposaviq \Leposavic 13 Lipjan \Lipqan 14 Novobërdë \Novo Brdo 15 Obiliq \Obilic 16 Rahovec\ Orahovac 17 Pejë\ Pec 18 Podujevë\ Podujevo 19 Prishtinë \Pristina 20 Prizren \Prizren 21 Skenderaj\ Srbica 22 Shtime\ Stimqe 23 Shtërpcë\ Strpce 24 Suharekë\ Suva Reka 25 Ferizaj \Urosevac 26 Viti \Vitina 27 Vushtrri\ Vucitrn 28 Zubin Potok \Zubin Potok 29 Zveçan\ Zvecan 30 Malishevë\ Malisevo
If sambody have a argument Im waitting. In another cases you are going to interpret the dokumets (you are out of UN Law) and you dont have argumet, you dont work for Wikipedia but are destroing the Wikipedia image. I know that my english is not so gut, but a desinformation is not gut for Wikipedia and for the peopel in Kosovo. You can have a problem with "Haage". This tabel is speeken better then I.--Hipi Zhdripi 21:01, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
- A few points here:
- 1) Wikipedia is not an agency of the United Nations and isn't bound by any decisions of the UN. The UN's views can help to guide us, but they don't compel us to do anything.
- 2) The UN's law clearly says that both names are valid. This gives us a bit of a problem, as Wikipedia's software requires an article to be at one specific name (we can't have two articles, each under a separate name).
- 3) Fortunately we have a solution: the Wikipedia:Naming conflict guidelines. I suggest that you look at the section under "How to make a choice among controversial names". I think this will probably result in many Kosovo articles retaining their Serbian names (e.g. Pristina, Pec) as these are the most widely known in English. -- ChrisO 16:36, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
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- A few points here as well: Retaining Serbian names only is NOT a solution ChrisO. Wikipedia is not a Serbian agency either, and is not bound to some namings that are inherited from the time an occupatory regime terrorized the population of Kosova. That regime also made the maps to which you like to refer now. Using such sources is unfair to the more than 90% of Kosova's population. Thank you, Ilir pz 20:34, 15 April 2006 (UTC)
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- The fact is that many Kosovo places are better known in English by their Serbian names than their Albanian ones. I'm not saying that we must use the Serbian names, but we need to find a solution that reflects the fact that the Serbian names are better known internationally. There are many examples on Wikipedia of placenames that are rendered differently in English to how they're spelled locally - Rome, not Roma; St Petersburg, not Sankt Peterburg; Munich, not Munchen; etc. Perhaps in 100 years the Albanian placenames in Kosovo will be well known internationally but right now that clearly isn't the case. -- ChrisO 17:28, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
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[edit] No argumet
No argumet!!! please dont inteprete the documents
Sombody have putit this Kosovo place in Serbia stub or category or template here with out argumet. We dont have a argumet that Kosovo is part of S/M. We have tha Constitution of this countrie but we have the rez. 1244 wich is more importen for the Wikipedia and is saying that Kosovo it is a part of Yougoslavia and is prototoriat of UN. Till we dont have a clearly argument from UN, aricel about Kosovo must be out of this stub or category or template. Pleas dont make the discution with intepretation or the Law wich are not accordin to 1244. Everybodoy can do that but that is nothing for Wikipedia.--Hipi Zhdripi 04:59, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
[edit] University of Pristina
University of Priština was relocated from Priština in 1999, but first to Kruševac. Relocation to Mitrovica was in 2001 and 2002. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Andrija.b (talk • contribs) 00:17, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Name
I will pu the official name on brackets"()"--Bindicapriqi (talk) 15:41, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
[edit] UPDATE NAME
Kosova is now and independent state, as of 17th February 2007, the Republic of Kosova is referred to as Kosova by all nations that recognize it the only countries to call it Kosovo is Serbia & Russia.
Second the name of the city is now officially Mitrovica e Kosovës SO the tital should be changed to that or just Mitrovica. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.45.201.125 (talk) 04:23, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
- Mitrovica is the best variant imho since it's most popular one in English (the most important Wikipedia criterion) and more or less acceptable to both sides. Meanwhile, let's wait for other opinions. Alæxis¿question? 06:46, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
- So "Mitrivica" is the English name, the other ones are names in Serbian and Albanian? OK, I think this is a good starting point for a neutral title. Klungel (talk) 12:10, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
- Serbs gave the name of this city in the 14th century. City is called after the Christian saint − Saint Demetrius of Thessaloniki (Greek: Άγιος Δημήτριος της Θεσσαλονίκης). In Albanian, there isn't one word with the root mitrov, and of course, Albanians can speak, read and write easier version for they tongue (eg. Albanian: Mitrovicë) for they local use, but globally, the name of city is Mitrovica (Serbian: Mitrovica). Many centuries past and we today have tons of written records, literature and scientific sources and referencies which point to the Serbian name - Mitrovica. If one change this name today (btw, due to daily-political reasons just) people around the globe will not understand what this new term Mitrovicë stands for.--Dejvas (talk) 01:01, 19 April 2008 (UTC)
- So "Mitrivica" is the English name, the other ones are names in Serbian and Albanian? OK, I think this is a good starting point for a neutral title. Klungel (talk) 12:10, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Infobox
Writing just Kosovo in the infobox isn't right. Let's look at the situation from the de facto and de jure views. De facto part of the municipality is ruled by Pristina and part of it is still ruled by Serbia. De jure Kosovo isn't a sovereign country (no UN recognition and only partial recognition by other countries) so officially it's still Serbia. It is clear that Serbia has to be mentioned in the infobox as well. I'll now restore my version, if anyone has other ideas about a compromise solution let's discuss it here. Alæxis¿question? 06:52, 24 February 2008 (UTC)
- Eeek, infopoxes. "And if thine infobox cause thee to stumble, cast it out: it is better for thee to enter into the kingdom of NPOV with no infobox, than having a big infobox and be cast into hell fire".
- Is that the only problem you guys have with this article? Fut.Perf. ☼ 20:13, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
- This is not a bad variant as well; actually it is used now in all the articles about localities in other de facto independent states. Let's see whether it'll help. Alæxis¿question? 20:28, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
