Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:WikiProject Trivia Cleanup

The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the miscellaneous page below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the debate was This page is for deletion proposals, not merging proposals. >Radiant< 00:00, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wikipedia:WikiProject Trivia Cleanup

Merge proposed into Wikipedia:WikiProject Trivia and Popular Culture. These are redundant projects, as both express the goal of cleaning up trivia sections and integrating worthwhile material into the prose of the targeted articles. While the Trivia Cleanup project predates the Trivia and Popular Culture project, the latter's scope is broader, so it is the more appropriate merge target. — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont] ‹(-¿-)› 19:28, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

• Oppose I am an active member of WikiProject Trivia Cleanup and I oppose merging the project with Wikiproject Trivia and Popular Culture for two main reasons:

1. The scopes of the projects are different. Wikiproject Trivia and Popular Culture mostly deals with the deletions of articles that are entirely trivia and popular culture while Wikiproject Trivia Cleanup deals with individual sections.
2. The beliefs of the projects are different. It seems that the two projects have different beliefs about how to handle trivia. Wikiproject Trivia and Popular Culture seems to oppose the removal of trivia sections and wishes to include these in Wikipedia while Wikiproject Trivia Cleanup supports integrating the trivia into the article. If Wikiproject Trivia Cleanup were merged with Wikiproject Trivia and Popular Culture it would be at odds with the project.

The first line of Wikipedia:WikiProject Trivia and Popular Culture says:

"This WikiProject aims to preserve "Trivia" and "In popular culture"-type information in Wikipedia in a manner that does not compromise Wikipedia's core principles or its quality."

The first lines of Wikipedia: WikiProject Trivia Cleanup are:

"This project deals with trivia sections on articles, and cleaning them up. Many articles on Wikipedia have too much trivia, and need to be shortened (or just removed altogether). This project focuses on finding, tagging and cleaning articles with too much trivia."

It is clear to see that these projects have very different core beliefs and are not compatable with one another. The members from the two projects would be at war and Wikipedia needs peace.

For these reasons I oppose the merger. The two projects are not the redundant, their goeals are not the same, and Wikiproject Trivia and Popular Culture does not support cleaning up or integrating trivia, but Wikiproject Trivia Cleanup does. Johnred32 (talk) 21:59, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

• Why do you keep futzing with this, which is to say, oppose. First you tried to delete WP:WPTPC on the basis of a lot of bad faith assumptions, now you're trying to smash it together with a project that has complementary, but not identical goals. Where the two projects conceivably overlap -- the task of "cleaning up trivia sections" -- WP:WPTPC defers to WP:WPTCU.
  Seriously, why do you keep nosing around this project and trying to manufacture a problem where there is none? Surely we could be doing more useful things with our time.--Father Goose (talk) 22:59, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

• Oppose for all the reasons mentioned above. The projects have opposing goals. many of the members of WikiProject Trivia and Popular Culture have been opposed to WikiProject Trivia Cleanup (just look at the talk page). This merge would lead to nothing but trouble. Also suspect not such a good faith nomination as the larger project with more members is the one being nominated for deletion. Sbacle (talk) 23:14, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

• Group reply: Wow, thanks for the assumptions of bad faith. Do I smell WP:OWN in the air? I MfD'd the Trivia and Popular Culture project when it was brand new because its espoused purpose when it was proposed at WikiProject Council (a discussion that, on the whole, was overwhelmingly against that project) was to agitate against consensus; it has since then taken a more moderate and constructive collective position and is actually being useful. That one redundant project has more members than the other is of no consequence. That's like saying that an article must automatically survive AfD if it is longer than, older than or has been edited by more people than an article that survived AfD. Doesn't work like that. Finally, the fact that trivia-concerned editors have factionalized into two opposing camps in two overlapping and frequently mutually antagonistic projects is precisely why they should be merged, per WP:CONSENSUS and WP:NOT#BATTLEGROUND. That's all I will say on the matter, since this MfD has been closed prematurely on a faulty basis (this is a deletion discussion, since a merge automatically involves deletion), those involved in these projects can't seem to do anything but assume bad faith, and I don't really care all that much to begin with; I XfD things all the time on the basis of their being redundant or generative of editorial conflict, and those XfDs are successful most of the time. I'd be willing to bet real money that when we come back in a year that there will only be one of these projects still around. — SMcCandlish [talk] [cont] ‹(-¿-)› 01:08, 7 December 2007 (UTC) 

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.