Talk:Mission San Juan Capistrano
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Mission San Juan Capistrano was nominated for good article reassessment to determine whether or not it met the good article criteria and so can be listed as a good article. The article was not listed as a GA. Please see the archived discussion for further information. Discussion ended: 21:21, 5 June 2008 (UTC) |
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Previous discussions, which have been archived: |
[edit] The Precontact section should be a separate article
This discussion has been moved to Talk:Spanish missions in California. Mdhennessey (talk) 06:24, 21 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] The Mission Industries section is not neutral
I almost edited the section, but being new to Wikipedia, and realizing that this might be controversial, I'm talking first.
This section presents the local Indian people from the viewpoint of the missionaries rather than from their own viewpoint. For historical accuracy, it's important to include the missionaries' point of view, but also to point out that the missionaries' views were ethnocentric (judging the Indian people by the standards of the Spanish culture of the time). A neutral point of view would use cultural relativism, presenting the Indian culture according to its own standards.
For example, the section reads:
Prior to the establishment of the missions, the native peoples knew only how to utilize bone, seashells, stone, and wood for building, tool making, weapons, and so forth. The missionaries discovered that the Indians, who regarded labor as degrading to the masculine sex, had to be taught industry in order to learn how to be self-supportive.
(Bold added to highlight missionary viewpoint.)
A neutral section would read:
In view of the missionaries, the native peoples were deficient in not having the use of metal; they knew only how to utilize bone, seashells, stone, and wood for building, tool making, weapons, and so forth. (From an anthropological point of view, the indigenous people had a complex material culture using a wide variety of locally available materials.) The missionaries felt that the Indians, who regarded labor as degrading to the masculine sex citation needed, had to be taught industry in order to learn how to be self-supportive (though the Indians had supported themselves for millennia before the missionaries arrived).
(Bold used to show neutral wording.)
A citation for the complexity of the local indigenous culture (Juaneno or Luiseno; originally Acjachemen) would be Bean and Shipek 1978. (Lowell John Bean and Florence C. Shipek, 1978, "Luiseno", Handbook of North American Indians, Volume 8, California, Smithsonian, pp. 550-563)
Sabbaticalready (talk) 07:37, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
[edit] The Mission Industries section contains unverified statements
Two statements need verification:
A. "the Indians, . . . regarded labor as degrading to the masculine sex"
California Indian women did have many more daily duties, but some activities were exclusively or mostly done by males (such as hunting, woodworking, and making nets, cordage, and luxury goods [Wallace 1978:683-684]), and "reports of husbands helping their wives [with plant gathering] are surprisingly numerous" (Wallace 1978: 683). (Edith Wallace, 1978, "Sexual Status and Role Differences," Handbook of North American Indians, Volume 8, California, Smithsonian, pp. 683 - 689.)
If indigenous men balked at the tasks assigned to them by the padres, perhaps it was the particular kind of "labor" being assigned? A reference would help clarify this.
B. "Everything consumed and otherwise utilized by the natives was produced at the missions under the supervision of the padres"
This statement is suspect since it is absolute and since the indigenous people were self-sufficient before the padres arrived. And since the precontact religion survived in an attenuated form well into the twentieth century, layered with Catholic beliefs and practices (Bean and Shipek 1978:561), it is likely that ritual and shamanic items were made clandestinely or off-site -- not "under the supervision of the padres"!
Sabbaticalready (talk) 07:37, 21 May 2008 (UTC)
