Talk:Mission District, San Francisco, California

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Contents

[edit] Graffiti/Crime

"graffiti are ongoing problems in the Mission District." -Maybe some people think so, many others consider it to be a wonderfull part of the urban landscape.

Have you ever been to the Mission district before? The graffiti is EVERYWHERE. I went through 20th and 28th streets in Mission, and graffiti is tagged on almost every garage door and sign. The whole place doesn't look good with all those tags, and it is difficult to find even one block without graffiti. The Mission district is also the center of Norteño gang activity. Not many people are obviously Norteño gangsters, but you could see a lot of "street" people everywhere. Also, you said that the Mission is a "wonderfull part of the urban landscape,". Where else can you find a place with different variations of artists work splatered on everything?
Well, the Mission District is not as bad as some other places in California like some parts of L.A., and the income level doesn't fall below $30,000. — Stevey7788 (talk) 23:05, 16 August 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Photos

This page needs photos. --Viriditas 13:00, 8 Sep 2004 (UTC)

[edit] History, Polish Club

Viriditas, can you please provide an external source that shows the Polish Club as a noteworthy piece of the Mission District's history? There are many important landmarks in the Mission District, but I do not believe every one deserves a place in the History section of the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by jonemerson (talk • contribs) 18:35, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

When it comes to documenting the local, colorful, and diverse history of the Mission District, it helps to examine the evidence. Unfortunately, the history of the Mission District is woefully incomplete, and in attempting to present a "History of the Mission District", WP:NOR and WP:V are our guiding policies, not WP:N (keep in mind, WP:N is not even a policy whereas WP:NOR and WP:V are established). For example, we can document that the Polish Club of San Francisco (an organization that traces itself back to a San Francisco fraternal society formed in 1889) has been at 3040 22nd St. in the heart of the Mission District for 80 years (since April 19, 1926) serving as a nonprofit charitable organization for the Polish community, hosting everything from funeral receptions, Polish observances, conversational Polish language lessons, and promoting Polish culture through art, dance, food, music, and theatrical performances. Mayor of San Francisco, Gavin Newsom, has officially recognized and commemorated the importance of the Polish Club in the city through a proclamation [1] and The Examiner has written a recent (2006) article about the club. [2] A 1929 photo of the building can also be found in The San Francisco Historical Photograph Collection [3] . Please remember, the Mission District has a rich history that includes people from all ethnic groups and nationalities. —Viriditas | Talk 12:31, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
If the Polish Club was so important, I believe it would have a Wikipedia page of its own. Why doesn't it? Can you site other encyclopedic sources that consider the Polish club one of the top 10 things thats happened in the Mission's history? Because right now it's one of 6, maybe 8, different facts in the History section, and I feel that's enormously out of context with its relative importance. I can definitely see the Polish Club being mentioned in the Culture section, however. Jonemerson 05:43, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
Another option is to move the Highlights section right after the History section, since it's a good section. And then we can add Polish Club as a bullet point with even a few more sentences about it, such as Gavin Newsom's recognition. What do you think? Jonemerson 06:00, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
I think I don't understand your obsession with the Polish Club, nor do I see the validity of any of your arguments against inclusion. The fact that the subject is a red link or its inclusion in a tertiary source is irrelevant. I've already discussed the topic above, so I don't see where you are going with this. The history of the Mission should be expanded, not reduced. The Polish community can also be mentioned in the culture section. —Viriditas | Talk 08:00, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
I could write a biography of my life, and in that biography, I could mention that I took Beaches, Coasts and Rivers my 4th year in college. It's an interesting point, and perhaps I know something more about oceans because of it. But if my biography was only 1 page long, there's more important things to say. It wouldn't belong. And if my biography got up to 20 pages, it still wouldn't make sense (I really don't know much about geology -- I didn't go to class after the mid-term). At 100 pages, still it wouldn't belong... even though it's STILL mildly interesting. Only if my biography got up to 500 pages would it perhaps make sense to add. My point is -- right now we're at the 1 page stage of the history of the Mission, and right now mentioning the Polish Club right between the 1906 Earthquake and the immigration of hispanics doesn't make sense. It doesn't rank up there in importance. Once there's other more minute details in the History, it would make sense. But it's inaccurate and possibly in violation of NPOV to mention it amongst many other very important historical events because it elevates the importance of the event above it's actual importance. Jonemerson 08:25, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
On the contrary, it makes perfect sense to describe the history of ethnic diversity in the Mission, and to fill in the missing gaps. Although I would have to revisit my sources, IIRC, the Mission had a strong Irish and Italian community during this time period. It is in no way inaccurate or a violation of NPOV to describe the history of the Mission. What do you know about the Irish and Italian community during this time? —Viriditas | Talk 08:52, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Why I removed the link to burntwire.tv

Take a look at this "vlog" (omigod, just what we need, another goddamn internet neologism); none of the entries on the current front page have anything to do with the Mission.

The thing is, everyone wants to get their blog, vlog, etc., in these here articles, and pretty soon, before you know it, they're all filled up with flotsam and jetsam. Only links relevant to the subject of the article should be included. (And to reply to the anonymous editor's message left for me, the link on ATA should stay because it's mentioned in the article as an important Mission institution.) +ILike2BeAnonymous 03:36, 29 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Eureka Valley -> Castro

Viriditas, ILike2BeAnonymous, what do y'all think about us renaming the bordering neighborhood of Eureka Valley to The Castro? (Just within the Mission District article.) Eureka Valley is hardly used as a neighborhood name anymore, and if it is, people would still call the Church Street border as the border with the Castro. (Wait, I'd consider the border on Dolores... but what's the official border?) I think the fact that the Eureka Valley page on Wikipedia is hardly existent shows that it'd probably be more educational to call the border neighborhood The Castro. Jonemerson 06:23, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

I found an SFGate (SF Chronicle) map that shows the border along Dolores: [4]. I'll update that part. Interesting to note that SFGate also refers to the neighborhood as The Castro and not Eureka Valley. Jonemerson 06:35, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
I'm no expert on San Francisco socio-geography, but my impression has always been that Eureka Valley is the "real" name of the neighborhood—the one that actually appears on maps, for instance; one rarely, if ever, sees "The Castro" printed on a map. The Castro is the de facto informal designation for (more or less, not precisely) the same neighborhood. I prefer to use the older, more formal designation (Eureka Valley). +ILike2BeAnonymous 06:40, 3 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Removed business about what neighborhoods the Mission "used to comprise"

I removed the following statement from the introduction:

The Mission District used to comprise the following neighborhoods: Bernal Heights, Castro District, Cayuga Terrace, College Hill, Crescent, Crocker Amazon, Diamond Heights, Dolores Heights, Eureka Valley, Excelsior, Fairmont, Glen Park, Holly Park, Inner Mission, and Mission Terrace.

When did the M.D. comprise all these places? According to who? Where's the evidence for this at all? +ILike2BeAnonymous 19:51, 4 July 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Grew up in the area

Added 48 Hrs. (the movie) which was shot at 16th & Valencia (in 1981) in front of the hotel that was burned down in the late 70's...

Regarding the previous poster - he is indeed correct.. I don't see the Excelsior as part of the Mission, it is an entirely separate neighborhood - I lived there for several years. Diamond Heights??? That is a high-income district in San Francisco. Try telling that to the residents there and they would roll their eyes. The Bernal Heights district are known for their tiny houses that straddle the hill and for that water tower - I don't see Cortland Avenue as being a main thoroughfare for the Mission.

I lived in the Mission half of my life and the Mission to me is the boundaries of 14th Street to the North, Cesar Chavez to the South, Potrero Avenue to the East and Dolores/Church Streets to the West. A lot of the places are still there since I've left the area two decades ago such as Bayview Bank, Horace Mann and Everett Middle Schools, Mission High, Mission Dolores Park, the thrift stores on 17th and Mission, Pancho Villa Taqueria on 16th & Valencia, Los Portales Medical Clinic on Mission between 21st and 22nd, etc...They tore down the old projects at 15th and Valencia...and Valencia Street now is heavily gentrified compared to say the 1970s - and it's always the crowded 14 Mission trolley bus line that crawls its way through congested Mission Street.

Back in the 60s and 70s; there were more ethnic divesity than today.. My childhood class pictures shows a broader range of ethnic groups - I guess everybody has moved away from San Francisco. However the district has and will always remain a strongly Latino neighborhood (like the Fruitvale district in Oakland).

The constant war between the Nortenos and the Surenos for turf has been there for quite some time..and that's why the district is always littered with graffiti. If there is anything negative about the Mission it is that. The Surenos being the recent immigrants; where as the Nortenos are American-born or have been in this country longer.


18:50, 13 April 2008 (UTC)