User talk:Mirlen/archive3

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Contents 1 Testin' 2 Version 1.0 "Release Version Qualifying" 3 References 4 How do I add to the list? 4.1 FA status 4.2 A Class 4.3 B Class 4.4 Things we'd like to get into WP:1.0 5 WP 1.0 6 Tenses 7 Re: References 8 Sockpuppets 9 Standards 10 Moving pages 11 Star Wars WikiProject 12 Maedhros 13 Happy Easter! 14 WP:1.0 WikiProjects 15 A tiny favour. 16 Nomination 17 Re: Userpage 18 Trading spaces 19 Re: Archive 20 Thank you for the offer 21 Re: Hey 22 The Lord of the Rings Peer Review 23 Old Skool Esperanzial note 24 Sandbox 25 Beleriand map 26 Activity Level 27 Heraldry/House of Finwe 28 Re: Userpage 29 Realms of Beleriand 30 May the Force be with you. 31 Thanks 32 Because a regular barnstar just doesn't cut it... 33 Esperanza Newsletter, Issue #3 34 Discussion at Maedhros page 35 Design 36 Redirects 37 VandalProof 1.2 Now Available 38 User Page design 39 Welcome back 40 Welcome to WikiProject Digimon Systems Update 41 Work via WikiProjects 42 Image:Gandalf.jpg listed for deletion 43 A short Esperanzial update 44 Admin coaching 45 WikiProject Star Wars newsletter

[edit] Testin'

Just tryin' out your new system :) _-M ^o P-_ 17:55, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

Looks cool! Would you be interested in a little status changer, too? _-M ^o P-_ 19:02, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

Oh, now I see it :P. Yeah, one on your talk page would be cool, too. _-M ^o P-_ 19:43, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Version 1.0 "Release Version Qualifying"

Hi, I'm interested in your feedback on Wikipedia talk:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Release Version Qualifying. It's essentially an idea to use a process similar to WP:FAC to identify and handle articles and lists that would go in a release version. Maurreen 19:52, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] References

There's a user who added awards that Ian McKellen won in the Gandalf article, and referenced it from an IMBD site. What would be the proper ciatation then — and is a source really needed then, since it's a factual information that's generally in all sources and not controversial/disputed? (Could you respond on my talk page?—thanks!) —Mirlen 20:12, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

Well, IMDB would be a reasonable 'secondary source' under the 'reliable sources' policy, but you could also go directly to the primary sources... which issue press releases and likely have their own web sites with this information. While this info is readily available I don't think it rises to the level of common knowledge because alot of people wouldn't just know about it offhand. Bottom line - in most articles I wouldn't worry about sources for easily available facts, but if Gandalf were up for 'featured article' status (which it should be some day) I'm sure source citations for those awards would be requested and the IMDB page would probably be acceptable for that, but should probably be in a Template:Cite web format. --CBDunkerson 20:31, 8 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] How do I add to the list?

Hi, i'm with the stargate wikiproject. I don't know how to add articles to the list on the recomendations page. Here is the list the porject came up with. I'm not sure how to use your format. Tobyk777 01:28, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] FA status

• None

[edit] A Class

• Stargate
• Stargate (device)
• Ascension (Stargate)

[edit] B Class

• Stargate SG-1
• DNA Resequencer
• Ancient healing device

[edit] Things we'd like to get into WP:1.0

• Stargate Atlantis
• Atlantis (Stargate)
• Everything in this template:

v • d • e Stargate Franchise Stargate · Stargate SG-1 · Stargate Atlantis · Stargate Infinity  · Stargate Universe · Stargate: The Ark of Truth · Stargate: Continuum · Stargate Worlds · Comics · Literature · Audiobooks Fictional Universe Aliens races · Elements and Materials · Planets · Technology · Ascension · Atlantis · SG-1 · The SGC · The Stargate Ancients · Asgard · Asuran · Athosian · Genii · Goa'uld · Jaffa · Lucian Alliance · Replicators · Ori · System Lords · Tau'ri · Tok'ra · Wraith SG-1 Cast · Episodes (Season 1 · 2 · 3 · 4 · 5 · 6 · 7 · 8 · 9 · 10) · Stargate: The Ark of Truth · Stargate: Continuum · Human civilizations Samantha Carter · George Hammond · Daniel Jackson · Hank Landry · Vala Mal Doran · Cameron Mitchell · Jack O'Neill · Jonas Quinn · Teal'c Atlantis Cast · Episodes (Season 1 · 2 · 3 · 4 · 5) · Human civilizations Samantha Carter · Ronon Dex · Teyla Emmagan · Rodney McKay · John Sheppard · Carson Beckett · Aiden Ford · Elizabeth Weir · Richard Woolsey · Radek Zelenka

[edit] WP 1.0

I thought since you are interested in this project you might be interested to see a CD version of en now exists see Wikipedia:Wikipedia-CD/Download & 2006 WP CD Selection. This is being discussed on the 1.0 project pages but progress breeds enthusiasm so I thought I would let you know. --BozMo talk 09:15, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tenses

Sorry to badger you again CBD, but are the Tolkien related articles in present or past tense? In this discussion it is said that it should be in past tense, (which I agree with, partly because it's strange to write in present tense for Tolkien articles), so I thought it'd be written in past tense, but somebody reverted the tenses on a Tolkien related article saying the the MoS said to write it in present tense for fiction, so now I am rather confused. —Mirlen 14:05, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

Unfortunately, people disagree on that. The 'use present tense' view was added to Wikipedia:Guide to writing better articles (which is sort of a subpage of the MoS) by Nohat last May. As shown in that diff, the example prior to that actually used past tense. Obviously, I think past tense makes much more sense for Tolkien, but some people apply that suggested guideline universally. --CBDunkerson 15:43, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks CBD, I think I will plead our case in making an exception for Tolkien articles, btu I will start with baby steps at a time in this, of course. —Mirlen 16:12, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

One thing to note with that - Tolkien usually (but not always) described events in his own stories in the past tense. There are dozens of examples in his letters. I think the fact that he was a noted scholar and commentator, not to mention the author, makes a strong case for such usage being acceptable. I've made some changes to the article guide to say that past tense can be used for fictional histories. We'll see if they stick. --CBDunkerson 16:27, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

Hey, Mirlen. Thanks for the heads-up on that: I won't change tenses in Tolkien articles. The arguments for using past tense in this case make sense to me. (You can understand how I missed the discussion, though, since it was buried in a portal talk page!) Incidentally, thanks for all the good work you've done on Tolkien-related pages — I've polished a smudge or two, but in the past few months you've done some serious rebuilding, and the pages are much better for it. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 22:58, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Oh, hah, thanks. You've done some good edits around here too — fixing up after my mistakes (like the Faramir page with the captions). Which reminds me, I wasn't sure if you were interested, but would you like to join Middle-earth WikiProject (we focus on anything Tolkien-related, not just M-E btw). The whole information is on one of our welcome templates {{TWwelcome}}, if you want a nutshell. Anyway, glad this was settled nicely — usually I have to get ready with a rebuttal :P —Mirlen 23:04, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Hmm... thanks for the invitation. I'm tempted, but I'm pretty busy with the Doctor Who WikiProject, and I'm not sure whether I'd have time for two! I will definitely keep an eye on the Middle-earth WikiProject, and try to stay current with any standards you come up with. (Incidentally, you folks might like to take a glance at Gift of Men — SanjaySingh has done some good work there, but I'm slightly worried that a bit of it might be heading towards original research. (I tried to tone it down, but Sanjay was a bit sensitive about it — perhaps another view would be helpful.) —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 23:17, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Well, the quality and content of writing is superb (far more superb than what I can write as of now) — but I'm afraid it does have a bit of POV and individual interpretation. It's hard for Tolkien fans to write it in an encyclopedic way, instead as a Tolkien scholar (I myself received a constructive criticism from a fellow Tolkien editor about that) — so I can also see where the user is coming from. I hope he/she knows that it is not the writing nor the quality we are criticizing, it's the fact that it contains a Tolkien scholar's interpretation in a journal as opposed to writing an article with the facts in an encyclopedia. It's hard to see the fine line, especially when writing about a piece of literature (it's difficult not to insert your own interpretation), but perhaps you should suggest that if the interpretation is a concensus interpretation accepted by most Tolkien fans, then there should be a lot of references and notes supporting that generally-accepted interpretation. (If the argument gets deeper, then I would reccomend asking the view of CBD — he is more experienced and because he knows more in-depth about the policy than me, he would be a better judge of this conflict). —Mirlen 00:22, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

The conversation has been fairly civil so far, and fortunately hasn't developed into an edit war. But thanks for checking it out and giving a second opinion. (I agree that it's quite well-written, and also a bit too original research-y for Wikipedia; I've written another comment to Sanjay, and I hope he'll be able to take it in the constructive spirit it was intended. —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 00:34, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

(The Gift of Men issue seems to have been a non-issue; I guess the user just wanted to complain a bit, which is OK. If I have the time I may try to reduce the amount of OR in the article at some point, but it's not a high priority — if you feel inspired feel free to take a whack at it!) —Josiah Rowe (talk • contribs) 03:28, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: References

Hm... well, if it's alright with you, could you start on the character list pages? Since I've almost finished the individual character pages, most (and hopefully all) of the references you may need (I don't know what they'll be since I've not looked over there yet) should already be on the individual character pages or one of the other plot-related pages (Mythology of Final Fantasy X or Spira) and that could speed things up for you since you could just copy and paste them. If that sounds okay with you, we can try it that way, but if you had another suggestion, I'm open to it.

Thanks for the compliments, by the way. And, by the way again, nice user page and talk page. Looks real nice. Ryu Kaze 16:35, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

Hey, don't worry about motivation. I'm not even sure where I get it from, but like I was telling Deckiller, this project has been really long and is starting to burn me out. Which is funny, because I've already done about 30 pages and am in the home-stretch now. XD So any help at this point would be appreciated, even if it just those two list pages. In all honesty, list pages tend to immidate me more than any others (which is why I saved the list pages for VII for last when I was going through those).

And thanks again for your kind words. That's very nice of you to say and quite flattering to hear (I have no shame in saying I enjoy being complimented XD). If you really would like to tinker with my page's design and try to make it look nicer -- and, really, with how it's looking right now, it could only go up from here -- I would appreciate that. Don't put yourself to any trouble if it would be, but if it's something you'd like to do and it won't be a hassle, I'd really appreciate it. Thanks for offering. Have a good one. Ryu Kaze 16:51, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks again. And, you know, it's never really concerned me to edit the FFVII pages, though I've always understood that it should. That game inspired so much speculation and fan-based ideas that -- for many -- discerning fancruft from canon is quite difficult. I've heard others say that they're somewhat intimidated by editing a FFVII page simply because of the potential for pissing off so many people, but -- and maybe it's because I've got the FFVII Ultimania Omega, Square-Enix's own official guide to the game's story -- I'm not all that concerned with it. There was an edit war a while back between people editing that Tifa's hair is brown/black and her eyes red/brown and it was just stupid... I just went in and edited it, and in the edit history I put something like "Tifa's hair is black. See Advent Children. Tifa's eyes are brown. Again, see Advent Children. End of story." XD

For whatever reason, though, I hate editing list pages. Those three location, character and terms pages for FFVII felt like they took longer than any others. I think I must just be naturally inclined toward straight prose, because I can run through that stuff like it's nothing (even Cloud Strife's bio, as you can see), but a list page makes me go "Um... are we sure there's nothing else that needs to be worked on first?" Another problem I have: talking too much. XD I'll stop here. Ryu Kaze 17:09, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

Alright, I'll give them a look-over sometime tonight or tomorrow, whenever you've had time to go over them. It's only those two X and X-2 character lists (thank God we don't have any more of them), and they aren't as long as any of VII's were, so I'm not too concerned about looking at them. I'll just say that at this point, I know I can survive.

And, yeah, I'm right there with you on trying to avoid inserting LT views into stuff on Tifa, Aerith and Cloud. You can't tell by reading my edits, probably (or should I say "hopefully"?), but I too have very strong views on that matter. Ryu Kaze 17:27, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

Hey, I assume you weren't able to get much done with the references yesterday because of the server errors, but thanks for the attempt. I thought I'd let you know that I've already gotten everything done but the two list pages. Thanks again. Have a good one. Ryu Kaze 18:35, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, I'll be fine with taking it upon myself to finish. I've nearly completed the list for X now, and after that, it's only X-2's to go. I don't think there is an FF barnstar, by the way, but thanks nonetheless. XD

As for a color preference... hm... green. ^_^ Ryu Kaze 23:05, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sockpuppets

Two users with the same account methinks: Abdullahazzam and Abdullah Azzam. The user posted at the M-E WikiProject things to do page as Abdullahazzam under the account Abdullah Azzam, as to erase evidence of me pointing out his mistakes (that we all make) and to follow the policy — which is evident from here to here. Would he be blocked, or would this be a case of an exception beause he's new? See, I'm unfamiliar with what do in cases of sockpuppets, but since you're a sysop, do whatever admins are suppose to do in sockpuppet cases. —Mirlen 18:32, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia actually allows sockpuppets though they are generally discouraged. There are just restrictions on what they can do. For instance you aren't supposed to use a sockpuppet to edit while blocked, stack votes, or get around the three revert rule. That being said, I don't think that second account actually exists. There aren't any contributions listed for it and I can't find a record of the account being created in the log. It is always possible to create a link to User:Snerfledegranimusberfenhousen or what have you, but there isn't anything there if an account under that name hasn't been created.

As to removing comments from your talk page without replying to them... it is generally considered "hostile", but allowed (except in cases of vandals removing warnings) and not in itself grounds for any sort of action. --CBDunkerson 19:16, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

The second account (Account 2) User:Abdullah Azzam in fact does not exist. You can tell by comparing it to (Account 1) User:Abdullahazzam. On account 1 there is a "User contributions" link, while not on the second account. Perhaps his sig reads Abdullah Azzam or even links to that "user" page, but the second account doesn't register in any way. -Xol 01:59, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Ah, I should've checked the logs — I'd forgotten that you could make a link to a unregistered account. *smacks head* Anyway, I think this is why I need some coaching from experienced users or admin, like the program they have over at Esperanza. Not sure if I want to be an admin, but I still feel like a newbie — so I want to improve myself to be better. Anyway, thanks CBD, if there's anything I can do for you (which probably isn't that much), but if there is, please tell me. You've done so much for me, I feel like I need to do something! —Mirlen 10:41, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

You've got enough 'time served' and edits in various areas that you could probably pass an RFA currently. Only thing I would suggest is reading up a bit more on wiki/admin policies and procedures. You've done a great job pushing the Tolkien wikiproject into an 'active' status and have alot of other areas of contribution. I'd be happy to nominate you when/if you want to give it a shot. --CBDunkerson 12:14, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

We all have our areas of expertise. You don't have to understand all of the technical details/procedures; everyone needs help / makes mistakes. As for adminship, I'd recommend waiting a month or so, just to boost edit stats a bit. But you've got about the same number of edits as Jedi6 and he looks like he's going to make admin status. I'd also be happy to nominate/support you if you ever run for admin, but look at Jedi6's RFA for what you could do to become more of a shoe-in. -Xol 02:22, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your support and advice, Xol. But I didn't mean that I wanted to be an admin now, just that I wasn't sure if I wanted to be. The subject came up because they had this user-improving program at Esperanza that was called admin coaching. But to tell you the truth, I don't feel ready at all. I don't feel fitting or ready for the position at all. If I am interested in the future, I'd have to feel at least that I was worthy of it, and stop feeling like a novice. Thanks again, Xol :) — I appreciate what you said. —Mirlen 23:40, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

You're welcome. I was just (also) trying to point out that you are a quite competent editor. :) -Xol 00:56, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Standards

In reference to what to include in the WP:WPME standards - the more the better. We can always discuss / change things if they don't have consensus long term. I'd say we should include the 'standard book citation list' that was discussed, use special characters (i.e. 'é', 'ö', et cetera) in names, correct spelling of "Tolkien"/"Middle-earth"/other common errors (i.e. 'Tolkein', 'Silmarilon', 'Illuvatar', et cetera), when to have a separate 'list' article and when to include the list in the main article, including name translation for each article at the top, when to use 'spoiler' warnings, 'legendarium' or whatever standard term for describing Middle-earth ('fictional world' / 'fictional universe' / et cetera), date formats, including the wikiproject banner on talk pages, and so forth. Alot of these should be tools not only for making things consistent, but also easier. I've been thinking it might make sense to have the book citations in a special template so you could use {{subst:HoME|5}} to add the standard citation for 'The Lost Road and Other Writings' (fifth book in the 'History of Middle-earth' series). There is already the {{tolklang}} template for name translations. Possibly something to produce date citations in a standardized format. I can put together the templates if people think they are worthwhile. --CBDunkerson 00:45, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Moving pages

Please do not "move" pages by cutting and pasting the content, as you did with Anke-Katrin Eißmann to Anke Katrin Eißmann, but use the "move" button. See Help:Moving a page for a how-to. Moving by cut and page destroys the Wikipedia:Page history and violates copyright, so please don't do it again. I will fix your cut and paste move now (but doing so requires administrator powers). Just ask me if you have further questions on this, happy editing, Kusma (討論) 02:41, 11 April 2006 (UTC)

It wasn't a big problem. Actually, I was glad I had such an easy and obvious case for the first time I did a history merge :-) Kusma (討論) 00:14, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Star Wars WikiProject

Hi there, again :-). I did hear about the SW WikiProject over here a little while ago, and have looked into it (to some extent, at least). It seems like a good idea, and I applaud all of you for your efforts; but I'm not sure if I have enough time to do the project justice. I'm already pretty involved with Wookieepedia, and my to-do list there is ever-expanding (after looking at your user page and the number of Wikis you have edited, I am sure you know what I mean :-) In addition, my RL obligations are climbing sharply, especially in the near-future. I may become more available over the summer, though it's really too early to tell. Good to talk to you again, and thanks for the note. Rmfitzgerald50 01:22, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Maedhros

Hi Mirlen. I looked over Maedhros, added the reference on the last trivia bullet, and made a few other minor adjustments. Looks very good to me. --CBDunkerson 01:59, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the chocolate and happy Easter to you as well. :]

I agree that English spellings make sense for the Tolkien articles. Wikipedia does a bit of each, but in cases where the article subject is specifically about something from England or the United States the 'local' spellings are used. Middle-earth has enough of a connection to England that it makes sense to stick with that. --CBDunkerson 21:34, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Happy Easter!

(Please put all tasty Easter wishes here)

Look, an evil bunny! :D Happy Easter, Mirlen! Sango123 (e) 14:00, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

They were laid by a chocolate bunny. Go on, take them! :P _-M o P-_ 04:09, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

Happy Easter! These special Easter eggs were laid just for you by an evil bunny! — — nathanrdotcom (T • C • W) 21:56, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

Happy Easter! :D _-M ^o P-_ 04:09, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

You know, foxes eat bunnies... >:) _-M ^o P-_ 15:13, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

Not this evil bunny... >:D Sango123 (e) 17:43, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

Heh, no problem; it's 100% fox-proof! :) And thanks for the Easter chocolate! Cheers, Sango123 (e) 18:26, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

Happy Easter to you, as well. No worries about the delay. Take your time.

I don't particularly celebrate any religious holiday, myself, at least not in a religious capacity. I'm not an atheist myself, but I'm not religious either. I'm not exactly agnostic either, though, because we can't exactly prove most supernatural things. I guess "spiritual" would be the best word. XD

Anyway, yes, chocolate is wonderful. I'd love some now that I've seen that picture, and I'll be wanting it until I get some now. Thanks a lot. XD *goes to buy chocolate*

Have a good one. ^_^ Ryu Kaze 18:44, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

Mirlen, thanks for the Easter well-wishes. I hope you have a happy Easter as well.    GUÐSÞEGN   – UTEX – 19:22, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

Your so kind. :) Thanks for the Easter wishes, happy Easter to you too. And your right, I can't resist chocoalte. Ted87 02:39, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the Easter wishes! I love chocolate and have being trying very hard not to eat too much! The chocolate bunnies were delicious! :-) Carcharoth 10:24, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Belated thanks for the Easter wishes and the bunny! I was away during the holiday and am busy with work this week, so may not be around much, but it was nice to come back to such a happy greeting.

Belated Happy Easter to you! Ω Anonymous anonymous Ψ: ''Have A Nice Day'' 23:23, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. Ω Anonymous anonymous Ψ: ''Have A Nice Day'' 23:33, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for your easter blessings - I've already celebrated. It's a great feast with many things to do, including a mountain-pile of homework! --Deryck C. 06:22, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

Hey Mirlen! Yeah, I remember you from our discussions of the Cor article. Nice to see that you still remember me. Happy Easter to you too! I don't believe Easter is the right date for Christ's resurrection (even the word "Easter" comes from a pagan goddess, Ishtar, which is related to the bunnies), but I do like chocolate and I do think the resurrection is something to celebrate. Just like Christmas: Dec. 25 was a pagan holiday that Christians adopted, but I still celebrate Christ's birth on that day because it's as good a date as any, and it is something worth celebrating. I don't know if you happen to share my beliefs (your comment sounds like you don't), but I know you'll respect mine just as I do yours. Besides, information is a good thing. I think that's what Wikipedia is ultimately about. Happy editing! --Cromwellt|Talk 18:58, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

BTW, I thought I'd mention what I currently spend most of my WikiTime doing these days, in hopes that you might be interested in helping. We need all the help we can get: I work a lot on two sisterprojects: Simple English Wikipedia and Simple English Wiktionary (where I'm an admin). At SEWikipedia, we are trying to make a wiki that uses simple English for people who do not have advanced knowledge of English for whatever reason. We are right now focusing on the most important articles, but once those are done well, we plan on including a lot more. But my pet project for now is SEWiktionary. VERY few people edit there currently, but the idea is to create a wiktionary that includes only English words, with all definitions in simple English (trying to mostly limit ourselves to the BE850 or BE1500 -- lists of the 850 or 1500 most basic/most common English words). I really think it is a valuable project, and we are slowly growing (around 350 entries at the moment), but our biggest need is more editors. Sometimes I'm the only person to edit there for several days at a time (and I don't have time every day), though recently we've had a few new people editing who seem to really want to help. I know (and I'm sure you know) that Wiktionaries and Wikipedias are not the same thing, so maybe this is not your cup of tea, but if you could spare a little WikiTime every so often, you'd be more than welcome. I can even point out a few helpful pages to get you started, and explain anything you don't understand. If you don't have time or interest, I fully understand, but at least I've invited you. --Cromwellt|Talk 19:11, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Yes, it does seem funny (or perhaps sad) to not get along with someone simply because beliefs are different. I guess that makes it truly tragic that people have died for much less. I'm not usually this philosophical, really! --Cromwellt|Talk 19:16, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] WP:1.0 WikiProjects

As we are still in the gathering phase, right now, WikiProject lists are open-ended, but if there is something done at Wikipedia:Version 1.0 Editorial Team/Release Version Qualifying, there might be some sort of deadline set for publication. Titoxd^{(?!? - help us)} 19:54, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

Hi Mirlen, and Happy Easter! I just thought I'd mention that we're now planning the next phase for Work via WikiProjects here. Cheers, Walkerma 15:03, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] A tiny favour.

Hi there Mirlen, I hope I'm not bothering you too much; I was just wondering, if you have any spare time in your busy schedule, could you look at the Editor review page and try to maybe review me? I'm trying to find out how I can improve and how I'm viewed on Wikipedia. Much thanks! _-M ^o P-_ 04:31, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Lots of thanks for the kind words and taking the time to review me! I hereby award you this foxolf. _-M ^o P-_ 20:45, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Nomination

I think the Maedhros article is ready for G.A. nomination, but I heard that an external editor had to nominate it for G.A. I couldn't find this on the G.A. pages, but is this true? —Mirlen 17:52, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

Not that I know of. Would seem kind of difficult to get GA status that way since people who follow the article would presumably also work on it. I went ahead and nominated it. We'll see what they say. --CBDunkerson 18:29, 19 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Userpage

Hey, thanks a lot for doing it. ^_^ I'll like whatever you come up with for the main page, and I think for the talk page I'd like to go with that traditional archive box. There's something about it I can't help but love. The first time I saw one, I looked for an excuse to use it somewhere. Thanks again. This has been very nice of you to do. Ryu Kaze 02:09, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Trading spaces

Hello, Mirlen, thank you for signing up to participate in Esperanza's trading spaces program. As you requested to renovate another user's page, you will be renovating UkPaolo's userpage. Please contact UkPaolo on their talk page about the renovating. The renovating will be listed at Wikipedia:Esperanza/Programs#Undergoing_Renovation, please feel free to update the status as it changes. Enjoy!

Hey there! I'm afraid my user page isn't particularly exciting to renovate - there's not much content! I have been meaning to incorporate a table of editing milestones from my sandbox, however. Regarding colours, blues/greens/greys probably best - just nothing too girly! I'm not a big fan of using a background colour on talk pages, although a nicer header incorporating the archive link might be nice (I like your show/hide thing!). I'll be interested to see what you come up with! _└ ^UkPaolo/_talk^┐ 07:51, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Yeh I know there's not much there at the moment! I nicked the milestone box idea from Sango! No rush on the re-design, I'll be interested to see what you come up with, though! _└ ^UkPaolo/_talk^┐ 16:50, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Sorry I took so long!! I like them both, but probably prefer the turquoise in the second design. Thanks, _└ ^UkPaolo/_talk^┐ 08:20, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Archive

Hey, nice of you to offer. Sure, I'd appreciate that. Thanks for asking. ^_^

By the way, I don't think I've mentioned it on here, but I've added tons of new stuff to my translations from the FFVII Ultimania Omega since that initial showing. If you're interested, check them out. Ryu Kaze 18:45, 21 April 2006 (UTC)

Hey, that looks great! Thanks a lot! You're good at this. I really like it. For a font... hm... well, I really like this font you use. Thanks for the tip on how to archive, and thanks again for everything, Mirlen. It looks really nice. Oh, and a "Welcome to..." message would be perfect! Ryu Kaze 18:12, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

Sweet! It's perfect. Thanks so much, Mirlen. You deserve something for being so cool. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ryu Kaze (talk • contribs)

Hmmm... I think I like those table layouts a bit better. Did you have anything in mind yourself? Ryu Kaze 18:18, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thank you for the offer

But sadly, my knowledge of Tolkien is minimal enough, all I'd be doing is fixing grammar and whatnot, and while I don't mind doing that, I just don't feel it's enough to join the project. Does seem to be great work though, I do commend you and your fellows for it. FrozenPurpleCube 17:11, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Hey

Hehe, thanks Mirlen! :D I've changed the sig-dash script in your monobook.js. It just needed some updating, that's all. Cheers, Sango123 (e) 18:10, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

Sure, any time! Sango123 (e) 18:22, 22 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] The Lord of the Rings Peer Review

I have make extensive changes to our Lord of the Rings article in an attempt to work it up to Featured Article status. In order to find more suggestions I have listed it under Wikipedia:Peer Review. Under the guidelines to nominations I am required to notify others of knowledge in the area to review it. I have decided that the best group for this would be our WikiProject. So I ask you all to look at the article and make any suggestions you can. Hopefully we will be voting this FA soon enough. SorryGuy 00:50, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Old Skool Esperanzial note

Since this isn't the result of an AC meeting, I have decided to go Old Skool. This note is to remind you that the elections are taking place now and will end at 23:50 UTC on 2006-04-29. Please vote here. Thanks. --Celestianpower ^háblame 20:42, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sandbox

Hmm... I'm not exactly sure on the wikistatus, but I can help with the boxes-won't-stay-wide problem. _-M ^o P-_ 23:19, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

I did the first one; however, it seems that if you place it inside the stuff you have already, it shrinks. I don't think you can change that much; I have to go for a bit though, so as soon as I get back I'll do the bottom box. Cheers! _-M ^o P-_ 23:28, 26 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Beleriand map

I noticed that the copyright status of the Beleriand map can't be used and therefore needed to be renewed, but instead a map showing a small section of Beleriand, how about a good quality map like this? It's a colored version of Christopher Tolkien's white-black (and red) map. You can find the colored map on numerous number of sites. There is also this version as well, which is very nice. Both appear to be safe to use, since the lawyers have not removed the colored versions of Beleriand maps as they've done for tons of other maps here. The best source of map (the one by John Howe) I'd like to use is the one in the HaperCollins' Silmarillion Gift Pack — they also have nice heraldry images of the Elven houses. —Mirlen 01:09, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Maps and some other images have been an ongoing problem with the Middle-earth articles. It looks like the third link above has now been taken down and I'd suspect the same will happen to the first eventually. However, even if there were some map in a corner of the internet which gets overlooked we shouldn't use it here because Wikipedia has extensive and specific copyright policies. There are basically two 'windows' through which we can include maps: 'fair use' and 'non-derivative'. The fair use provision would allow a copyrighted map to be used, but would require that it be for purposes of explaining the topic, that it be used only on a few pages, and that the map be of lower resolution quality than the original - so in theory we could take a scan of Christopher's map (or the colorized version), shrink it down a bit, upload it and use that. The other option is to create or find a freely available map which contains enough 'original creation' to not be considered simply a derivative of Christopher's original. The 'Encyclopedia of Arda' maps and generic 'land shape' maps used in many articles ostensibly fall into this category, but since they actually include less detail than the originals they might well be considered derivative... but would then likely be 'fair use' due to the low quality. The colored version is definitely derivative, but could be made 'fair use' by lowering the resolution. The John Howe map is definitely not 'derivative' of Christopher's, but has its own separate copyright. Ideally, we'd use maps that are freely distributable highly detailed original creations... however I don't know of any of those offhand. Thus 'fair use' is probably the best bet. --CBDunkerson 12:18, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

The third link wasn't taken down, it's just the crappy server of Geocities. It's up now again. You can see it from this link. Also, the map on the first link is uploaded on a lot of other sites as well (e.g. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5). Well, getting a high resolution image and turning it into low resolution, dubbing with its respective tag, writing a fair use rationale for it is what I've been doing the Tolkien illustrators' arts after emailing them for their permission. So, I see how the Arda maps are convienient, but I do like more detailed and higher quality map as opposed to a little section of it. So, I'll reload the Beleriand map to the colored version of Christopher Tolkien's map. I just wanted to ask if you were okay with the idea of having a new map...so since it's not taken down, it can be used, right? (Found out where the map is from: HarperCollins 1992 edition of The Silmarillion).

BTW, when I entered the realms of Beleriand in the Beleriand section, the box ended up stretching all the way across the article... —Mirlen 21:18, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Oh, I'm fine with new maps. I don't like the EoA ones and was happy when we got rid of most of them a few months back. The colorized map will probably be ok under fair use. On the realms thing, if you insert <br/> tags to force line breaks it won't stretch that far around. You can also set a fixed width and have it wrap automatically, but that sometimes causes problems for users who have different screen resolutions or font-sizes set. --CBDunkerson 22:45, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Oh good, so I'm not the only who thinks the EoA maps are rather crappy. :P Thanks, CBD! —Mirlen 00:21, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Problem is though, what fair use copyright should it be tagged with? If I use the generic tags, it'll have a limited use of the map (the maximum is five). The only art tag is the 2D art tag... —Mirlen 00:40, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

Do we need to use it on more than five pages? I guess we could include region maps on the page for each location in Beleriand, but then it would probably be difficult for people to actually find the location on the map unless they already knew where to look. I think any valid 'fair use' tag is going to be for a limited number of uses. We could use different images though... the detailed Beleriand map on the Beleriand page and then just very basic 'location' maps like Fangorn forest and many other areas have currently. Maybe include a link to the detailed map/article in the image description on each location page. --CBDunkerson 13:34, 28 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Activity Level

How do you get/make one of those activity level things at the top right of your user page? I tried copying yours and editing it for mine, but that didn't work. :( Or is it just something you created yourself? Ted87 22:08, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Monowhat? Javasomething?? Are you drinking coffee? I have no idea what you are talking about (I never really got into javascript). Thanks for doing this for me. But uhhh...Something doesn't appear right. The status bar is there, but the code is still on my page. Is that suppose to be there? Ted87 22:41, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Heraldry/House of Finwe

Just thought I should drop in and say hello. I'm looking forward to reading your House of Finwe article, and seeing my pictures in it. :) --Mansbjorkman 15:31, 29 April 2006 (UTC)

Hi again, thanks for the invitation. I just might join the project, though I can't tell in advance how much I will actually contribute. {{Symbol}} looks right for the devices. --Mansbjorkman 10:29, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Re: Userpage

Hey, Mirlen. Can't wait to see it. Was there supposed to be a link or something in your message? Or did I just read it wrong? ^_^; Ryu Kaze 01:22, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Sweet! It looks awesome. I love it. It looks great to me right now. Is it ok to go or was there something you really needed to fix first? Ryu Kaze

Hey! Thanks a lot! I made a few tweaks to it (took a while to figure it out XD) so that I could add more translations to it, my gifts and awards, and so I could standarize the green borders for the sections on the left side and those on the right; it's perfect! Thanks so much. It looks beautiful. I now have the number one userpage on Wikipedia. XD Thank you! Ryu Kaze 16:18, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

I figured it just wasn't possible to make them stretch across with that layout, so I didn't try for very long. It doesn't really matter I don't think. You don't have to go to any more trouble. I might try it some more, but if it stays just as it is, I like it like that just fine. Thanks again! Ryu Kaze 00:00, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

Hey, I added a bunch of userboxes to my page to take care of that blank space. I'm not sure how it'll look on other people's monitors, but it looks exactly right on mine. How about yours? Ryu Kaze 01:56, 2 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Realms of Beleriand

The 'Realms of Beleriand' are described in The Silmarillion, but there are a number of complexities. The ones I think are safe bets would be: Doriath, Ossiriand, Hithlum, Dor-Lomin, Nevrast, Nargothrond, Gondolin, The March of Maedhros, Maglor's Gap, Himlad & the Pass of Aglon, Thargelion / Dor Caranthir, and Angband. Offhand I can't think of a name for the holdings of Amrod and/or Amras between the rivers Aros & Gelion, but that would also be a 'realm'. The area around Tol Sirion might also be accounted a 'realm' when held by Finrod or later by Sauron. Defining 'realm' vs 'sub-realm' is difficult... the Falas were accounted part of Thingol's realm despite being far separated and largely independant. By another view they might all be accounted as sub-realms of Doriath. Dor-Lomin, Ladros, and the like that were eventually held by Men were certainly 'sub-realms' (though Dor-Lomin was originally a 'full realm' under Fingon). The later refuge at Arvernien might also be accounted a realm. Lindon definitely became such eventually, but that was after the fall of Beleriand. Generally I'd say that any place which had an established 'leader' and distinct identity should be considered a 'realm' for purposes of compiling a list. --CBDunkerson 14:36, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

I think a list in the Beleriand article is fine for now. If it gets to the point where the article or list gets very long (by including detailed geographical and/or historical info for instance) then it might make sense to split the list out, but for now it seems fine as is. --CBDunkerson 13:25, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] May the Force be with you.

Dear Mirlen/archive3,

Thanks for voting on my RFA! I appreciate your faith in me, and was overwhelmed by the positive response to my RFA; for it shows that at least I'm doing something right. :) I've started working to improve myself already, and I hope that next time, things run better, and maybe, just maybe, one day we can bask on the shores of Admintopia together. Thanks and cheers, _-M o P-_ 21:49, 3 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thanks

hey Mirlen, just seen the page you've got under construction in my sandbox and it's looking great so far — thanks for putting in the effort :o) I'm liking the new look to my talk page, my only comment would be that I liked having the Pic of the Day ({{POTD}}) included at the top of my talk page previously. I'd like to re-add it, in the white space to the right of the Table of Contents, but I can't figure out how to place it there (should be able to float it in a <div> I think, but I can't get it to work!) Any thoughts? (don't worry if not, I'll play around with it at some point!) Thanks again, I look forward to seeing the finished user page! _└ ^UkPaolo/_talk^┐ 14:04, 4 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Because a regular barnstar just doesn't cut it...

[edit] Esperanza Newsletter, Issue #3

Administrator Coaching The Administrator Coaching program is a program aimed at preparing Wikipedians for Adminship or helping them understand the intricacies of Wikipedia better. Recently, changes have been made to the requirements of coachees. Please review them before requesting this service. This would be something like the Welcoming Committee, but for people who have figured out the basics of editing articles; they're not newcomers any more, but they might want some help in learning new roles. Some might like suggestions about how to learn vandal patrol, or mentoring on taking an article to featured status, or guidance with a proposal they plan to make at the Village Pump, for example. In this way, Esperanza would help keep hope alive for Wikipedia because we would always be grooming the next generation of admins. Stressbusters The Stressbusters are a subset of Esperanza aiming to investigate the causes of stress. New eyes on the situation are always welcome! Note from the editor As always, MiszaBot handled this delivery. Thank you! Also, congratulations go to Pschemp, Titoxd and Freakofnurture for being elected in the last elections! An Esperanzial May to all of the readership!

The last AC meeting (full log) Posting logs of the Esperanza IRC channel are explicitly banned anywhere. Violation of this rule results in deletion and a ban from the channel. A disclaimer is going to be added to the Esperanza main page. We are humans and, as such, are imperfect. Various revisions have been made to the Code of Conduct. Please see them, as the proposal is ready to be ratified by the community and enacted. All members will members to have to re-confirm their membership after accepting the Code of Conduct. Referendums are to be held on whether terms of AC members should be lengthened and whether we should abolish votes full stop. Admin Coaching reform is agreed upon. Signed... Celestianpower, JoanneB, Titoxd, Pschemp and Freakofnurture 20:29, 7 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Discussion at Maedhros page

Hi Mirlen. I thought you might be interested in a discussion I've started here. I've also been doing some work at Wikipedia:WikiProject_Middle-earth, but things seem a little quiet around there. Did I miss the May roll call? Carcharoth 15:53, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Design

Hey, sorry for removing the PotD, I'll figure out a way to put it back so it'll go well with the layout. I'm taking a short wikibreak, but I promise that I'll work on your layout now and then when I'm on my wikibreak (since I can't get away completey, being a Wikipediholic). Sorry for my slowness, I'll get the job done, I promise! —Mirlen 01:41, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

No problem at all, there's absolutely no rush, I'm perfectly happy to wait for a nice userpage design. I'm taking a wikibreak currently (...ish... still managing to check my talk page just in case) cuz I'm busy in real life. Make sure you enjoy your time off! _└ ^UkPaolo/_talk^┐ 08:35, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Redirects

Just to save you some time, redirecting to specific sections of pages doesn't work. For example, #REDIRECT [[List of Final Fantasy X-2 characters#New Yevon Party]] just redirects to the top of List of Final Fantasy X-2 characters instead of List of Final Fantasy X-2 characters#New Yevon Party. ⇒ JarlaxleArtemis 03:17, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] VandalProof 1.2 Now Available

[edit] User Page design

Finally finished renovating your user page! You can beat me over the head for the long wait, so I aplogize again. I was using the complicated code, until I discovered Sango's wonderful, new, easier (and less of a headache) way — so I'd like to thank Sango as well for just being so talented in that area. Anyway, hope you like it, and that it's "not too girly." To fill in the blank space, you could perhaps add one or two more userboxes. Well, if you have any comments and complaiments, share them. I'll now work on tweaking your talk page to include the PotD. :) —Mirlen 01:30, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Mirlen, thanks so much for your hard work in redesigning my user page. I think it's great ! I'll get to work actually adding more content to the page at some point! Thanks again _└ ^UkPaolo/_talk^┐ 09:04, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Welcome back

Welcome back from your wikibreak Mirlen! It's good to see you back editting :) Bryan 17:10, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

Ahem, technically not back yet. (Bryan, if you read this first before your message I left you on your talk page page, read the message on your talk page too!) —Mirlen 23:26, 25 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Welcome to WikiProject Digimon Systems Update

Thanks for joining the Digimon Systems Update WikiProject!

Basically, being apart of a WP:DIGI means you'll help organize, expand, clean up, and guide Digimon related articles on Wikipedia. You can also help create guidelines and discuss issues about Digimon-related articles. If you're new, don't be afraid about making mistakes, Wikipedia has a lot to take in. Just use common sense and you'll usually be fine.

If you are unsure about something you can always make a note on an article's talk page (the link for each article's talk page is next to the edit this page link, labeled discussion) for asking for help or even just asking for other people's suggestions and feedback.

Remember to not violate copyrights, such as cutting and pasting exact info from other Digimon websites isn't allowed. (You can still use the information, just rewritten.) Cite ALL information you add (where your information came from, such as an anime episode appearance, manga volume, card game info, etc). And remember that Wikipedia isn't a fan-site; the articles should contain information that is useful and interesting to those who have not seen the shows or played the card games.

Again, welcome to the WikiProject. Check out the links on the Project page and familiarize yourself with the guidelines and advice we have so far, and definitely check out the talk page and get involved there as well, with opinions and any ideas you have. And make sure you add the project page and the to do list to your watchlist so you can keep up to date with the Project. -- Ned Scott 22:02, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Work via WikiProjects

Hi Mirlen, As you may have seen here, we are planning to start contacting projects again soon (once Oleg gets "Importance" added to the bot), using a message something like this. Would you be willing to help? It involves posting a message on each project page, recording what you're doing on our page, then following up a few days later to see how the project has responded. Often there is no response, but sometimes (as with Military History) they go off and create their own worklist of 6000 articles! We are also encouraging groups to start using the bot. Can you help out? Thanks, Walkerma 05:49, 7 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Image:Gandalf.jpg listed for deletion

Thuresson 16:18, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] A short Esperanzial update

As you may have gathered, discussions have been raging for about a week on the Esperanza talk page as to the future direction of Esperanza. Some of these are still ongoing and warrant more input (such as the idea to scrap the members list altogether). However, some decisions have been made and the charter has hence been amended. See what happened. Basically, the whole leadership has had a reshuffle, so please review the new, improved charter.

As a result, we are electing 4 people this month. They will replace JoanneB and Pschemp and form a new tranche A, serving until December. Elections will begin on 2006-07-02 and last until 2006-07-09. If you wish to run for a Council position, add your name to the list before 2006-07-02. For more details, see Wikipedia:Esperanza/June 2006 elections.

Thanks and kind, Esperanzial regards, —Celestianpower ^háblame 16:00, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Admin coaching

Are you still on wikibreak? If you are ready for coaching (i.e. will be active soon) then you are next in line for admin coaching. Petros471 13:53, 25 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] WikiProject Star Wars newsletter

Project updates Greetings, Star Wars editors! Deckiller here. It's the first edition of the WikiProject Star Wars newsletter, and yes, it's a semi-ripoff of the Esperenza newsletter. I think it's important to begin with some good news: Star Wars Episode II: Attack of the Clones, Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith, and Jabba the Hutt have reached featured article status! Kudos to the editors who helped obtain these achievements! WikiProject Star Wars is also on a mission to improve Star Wars articles using the following ideas: An out of universe perspective versus an in universe perspective (see Wikipedia:Writing about fiction and the future ammendments to our manual of style) Evolving lists into regular articles Moving excess information and specifics to Wookieepedia (and providing links to Wookieepedia per the "see also" and/or "external links" sections) Enhanced communication amongst WikiProject members More to come These should provide the basic steps needed to improve and "encyclopedia-fy" the Star Wars series of articles. Things to do There are plenty of Wikipedia:WikiProject Star Wars/things to do. An update to the page is coming very soon, and it will represent the new and exciting changes that Star Wars pages will be receiving! Out-of-universe versus in-universe perspectives Although details are forthcoming, I would like to take this time to explain the gist of this concept. Wikipedia has generally agreed that fictional articles should write about the topic from a "real world" perspective, focusing on real world issues and topics, with a section or two for plot synopsis and so on. Jabba the Hutt is a solid character example, and Clone Wars (Star Wars) is quickly moving toward an out of universe perspective.

Article evolution As many of you know, lists of minor Star Wars-related themes are very common on Wikipedia; however, since these may be seen as violations of Wikipedia policy (and having seperate articles would breach even more policies), the tentative solution is to create general articles on a list's topic (for example, turning List of Star Wars devices into Technology of Star Wars, which allows us to cover everything from hyperspace to comlinks in a general encyclopedic fashion). This can be very tough for some broad topics, so the key is organization. I encourage all editors to list their ideas on the WikiProject talk page. It will be a very difficult — but tangible — effort. For an example, let me point you to the Final Fantasy WikiProject. Some of us over at that WikiProject decided to turn various components of Final Fantasy X, such as Pyreflies, Yevon, and the backstory — into an article describing the world of Spira. Location descriptions were given a List of locations in Spira article, and the details themselves were placed on the Spira (Final Fantasy X) page. This is a decent template to follow — however, we will need to place priority on out-of-universe, "real life" topics and perspectives in realtion to the article. Sounds confusing, eh? It won't, for examples will be popping up left and right in the near future! Signed... — Deckiller 03:19, 11 July 2006 (UTC)