Talk:Minor characters in 24

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Articles for deletion Noah Daniels was nominated for deletion on December 7, 2007. The result of the discussion was merge with this article.


Contents

[edit] Split

Yes, Ira Gaines was the head terrorist for the first hours of season 1. He was a Drazen henchmen but that was not known until a little less then 12:00 noon. He needs to be put back. He played a much bigger part then say, Ahmed Amar and he managed to make it on the list. He was only in first 4 of season 6.

Ira Gaines is a major character for half of season 1, he should have his own article, like Syed Ali and Marie Warner... at this rate every character save for Jack will be turned into a minor character.--Gonzalo84 05:02, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

I diaagree i think the He is a minor character. This is because he was effectivly a drazen henchmen who failed. I admit that for the first part of the first season he featured heavily but after thet he was killed off and had no further brearing on the rest of the season. Unlike Syed Ali who was warking alone and efectivly mastermided the nuclear bomb plot. When her was kiled his death had a bearing on the rest of the season as it would eventually lead to the cyprus recording being declared bogus. his death was the straw the caused jack to believe the recording was bogus before recieveing the phone call to confirm this. Finally marie Warner is in my opinon a minor character and should be classed as one as she was just a minor terrorist. who cropped up occasionally and only once more after the nuclear bomb exploded.--Lucy-marie 21:50, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Theo Stoller and Collete Stenger both need pictures.

there has been no response to the comments and no attmpt to modify it is now a new month so the split deadline has passed so result no split.--Lucy-marie 12:00, 1 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Character Missing

Frank Allard redirects here, as a minor 24 character. Problem is Frank Allard is not mentioned on this page. He should probably be added, particularly if that redirect is to be kept. Bitnine 23:27, 3 February 2007 (UTC)

Also, no mention is made of Brady or Mark Hauser.66.24.227.212 22:26, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

If I am wrong, which correct me if I am, Collette Stenger is not here either, though her link directs her here (at least her link on the mandy page). Vreddy92 14:58, 20 May 2007 (EST)


[edit] Jacob Rossler

Please explain to me why Jacob Rossler, who was a very minor player in the Season 5 plot, did not affect any major characters in the long-term, and only appeared in one episode before being offed warrants and entry here?--T smitts 19:12, 13 April 2007 (UTC)


[edit] LISTEN EVERYONE

There are many minor characters, over 300 I believe that cannot all be put onto this page. I disagree with many people benig here and many others not. However, the 24 WIKI is a much more detailed page with all the characters. If you're looking for Ira Gaines or Maureen Kingsley or Marie Warner or whoever, each person has their own profile and it is much more organized that way. The editors there aren't at all like the editors at the Lost WIKI, who analyze every fricken detail and catagorize it but the 24 one is very thorough and complete. We always could use more pople editing with us there. Thank You. Julie198 17:28, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

I agree that this is getting quite long. Admittedly this is inevitable as the show continues and new characters are introduced. At some point we may have to consider splitting the article into smaller articles by season, group, or something else. (I don't think we're at that point yet though). In the meantime, there are some characters here that I maintain we really don't need here, having only appeared in one or two episodes and made very contribution to the plot in the long run. (There are exceptions to this, such as Haas and Alexander Trepkos, who appeared in only one and two episodes respectively, but whose actions affected the entire day).
Most of the ones we really don't need have been hastily added, with no picture (though some do have one), and brief, poorly-worded descriptions. If no one objects, I'm going to do a little bit of "spring cleaning" on this article in a day or two. --T smitts 05:41, 5 May 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Zhou

I added Zhou to the list because he shot a major character in the head, which was pretty dramatic. Gatty790 23:39, 8 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Mark Bishop

I think that Mark Bishop can now be considered a minor character because he was only in a few episodes. Gatty790 23:22, 17 May 2007 (UTC)

I agree. Bishop definitley fits the Minor Character section. Order_66

Yep, agreed. Bishop should definitely go in the Minor Characters section. Chris Bulgin

Maybe we should wait until we see the finale of Season 6, he could become pretty major... I will revise this on Tuesday, but so far I agree. Vreddy92 14:58, 20 May 2007 (EST)

I concur. Just make sure to put him in the "Other characters" category, since he didn't work for the government and wasn't really an antagonist. I've recosindered this. He should be in the gov section. --T smitts 05:56, 22 May 2007 (UTC) --T smitts 14:12, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

Shouldn't he be in the antagonist section? The guy was a bona fide traitor: he was selling American secrets to Russians, and he literally strangled the woman he was stealing them from when he realized he might get caught. And besides, a "lobbyist" is definitely not a government official, despite the fact that he deals with government officials. Mike H. 18:54, 26 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Massive merge proposals

Hey, what would everyone think, about replacing those 39 lines of merge proposals with this:

 It has been suggested that Rick Allen (24 character), Lisa Miller, Jim Prescott, Reed Pollock, Noah Daniels, Tom Baker (24 character), Gary Matheson, Victor Drazen, Alexis Drazen, Yusuf Auda, Andre Drazen, Kevin Carroll, Ira Gaines, Brad Hammond, Ethan Kanin, Syed Ali, Max (24 character), Reza Naiyeer, Marcus Alvers and Adam Kaufman be merged into this page or section. (Discuss)
It has been suggested that Anya Suvarov, Mike Doyle (24 character), Hal Gardner, Dmitri Gredenko, Sarah Gavin, Evelyn Martin, Mitch Anderson, Christopher Henderson, Graem Bauer, Phillip Bauer, Josh Bauer, Marilyn Bauer, Paul Raines, Bob Warner, Kate Warner, Marie Warner, Michael Amador, Roger Stanton and Vladimir Bierko be merged into this page or section. (Discuss)

Even at my screen resolution of 1280 x 1024, that line of proposals puts the actual article below the fold... Some consolidation might not be such a bad thing... SQL(Query Me!) 09:24, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Approve and implement quickly.--Lucy-marie 12:38, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

Y Done SQL(Query Me!) 12:51, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Split

This article is extremely long, it's nothing but a long list of short entries that could be split at least by season.--Gonzalo84 03:38, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

Once all of the mergers have gone thorugh. The issue can be properly looked at.--Lucy-marie 15:21, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Quality

Yes, we need to split this article because he is too long. I think we create an article for season 1 (For example: Minor characters in 24/Season 1), an article for season 2 (For example: Minor characters in 24/Season 2), an article for season 3 (For example: Minor characters in 24/Season 3), an article for season 4 (For example: Minor characters in 24/Season 4), an article for season 5 (For example: Minor characters in 24/Season 5) and an article for the last season at the moment, season 6 (For example: Minor characters in 24/Season 6) --Strike07 12:08, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

I am afraid that would not work as some minor character span two seasons. The best way to go about it would be Minor antagonists in 24 and minor government figures in 24 etc.--Lucy-marie (talk) 21:27, 24 November 2007 (UTC)

That's a good idea, we must to do this before we merge others characters --Strike07 12:23, 25 November 2007 (UTC) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Strike007 (talk • contribs)

I say finish off the mergers first, to deal with one thing at a time rather than splitting pages, while trying to merge pages at the same time.--Lucy-marie (talk) 18:56, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

We could split them all off by season and if a character appears in more than one season, give them entries in all of their seasons but only the first one would actually have anything and all the others would say 'See 24 (season x)_Joe_Bloggs' where 'x' is the first season they appeared in. It would definitely shorten things down. asyndeton talk 15:17, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

There has been very little establishment of notability as it, which makes one question whether this is a notable topic at all, so lets merge, see how much it can be built up in terms of notability, and then think about possible splitting. Judgesurreal777 (talk) 04:44, 30 January 2008 (UTC)


This article is currently close to unreadable, and it could quite easily be divided by order of season the character first appeared. This would resolve the current issue of the article's readability, even if it is short term, it's a good idea for now. Waiting for all the articles to be merged into one would impact on the article, I'm doing this in good faith, if you have any objections as to why this is not a good idea, please discuss it here, instead of just reversing my edits before discussion. Dividing them up into seasons, if only for the time being, is not detrimental to the article, but if you believe it is, please say so before reverting my edit. Thank you Steve Crossin (talk) 06:28, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Assad: An Antagonist-Disputed

He wasn't one. The character may have been an ex-terrorist, but as far as 24 (season 6), he was a good guy. A similar character is Ryan Chappelle; despite being a CTU agent, he was very much an antagonist in seasons two and three, one who kept or tried to keep the main characters from reaching their goals. Tromboneguy0186 20:47, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Comment- Agreed. I noticed that today. He should be in the Government and political figures section, he was at one point, before the article was merged into this one. This may be my point of view, but I'm sure that I would be backed up on this. And if not to go into the Government and political figures section, he should not be in the Antagonists section. He was formerly a terrorist, but for most part of Season Six, he was affiliated with the US Government. He does not belong in the Antagonists section. If you require citations, I will find them. Steve Crossin (talk) 06:34, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] John Keeler

Why is john keeler under minor characters? He was a president for the first half of day 4, wasn't he? He was also the candidate who ran against David Palmer in day 3. He played a major role in both days.

He wasn't the president for very long and he didn't do anything notable in that time. asyndeton talk 20:17, 30 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Abu Fayed

Why is Abu Fayed here? He clearly wasn't a minor character, as 1: He has killed more people than any other antagonist in the history of 24, 2: he dramatically influenced Day 6 for more than half the season, and 3: after Hamri Al-Assad "betrayed" him and his cell, Fayed became the leader of the violence-oriented sector of the jihad they were working for. However, I am happy to listen to reasoning from the people who decided to have him placed in this category. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 211.27.68.108 (talk) 00:50, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

I agree that he's not exactly a "minor" character; he's a major character in season 6. But, he doesn't have very much "real world notability" (see notability and WP:FICT). It would probably be a better idea to have individual character profiles of characters who are "major" in a season in those season articles. --Lquilter (talk) 19:17, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] WP:OR

A number of these have significant OR & plot summary content. In general, they need to be shortened to one to two summary paragraphs. I began with Marie Warner & will do some others shortly. -- Lquilter (talk • contribs) 20:11, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

Toddst1, can you please explain why you reverted without explanation the significant cleaning up I've been doing on Minor characters in 24? Those character sections are greatly laden with WP:OR, WP:PLOT, and WP:TRIVIA; I posted about this on Talk:Minor characters in 24, so discussion is probably more appropriate there, and I'm cross-posting this there. --Lquilter (talk) 20:49, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
Never mind; it was all an error & Toddst1 unreverted. --Lquilter (talk) 20:53, 5 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Something is wrong with the article "John Keeler"

If you type John Keeler into the search bar right now, it should give John Keeler's section of Minor characters in 24. The link for that redirect is Minor characters in 24#John Keeler. BUT for some reason it give Koo Yin, a different character

This is either a hack, or some kind of glitch. Upon searching John Keeler, wikipedia does the redirect, and at the top the website says: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Keeler#John_Keeler

Now... that gives Koo Yin, and strangely enough if you go up to the address bar and just press enter, as if you just typed in the exact same address http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Keeler#John_Keeler. it will properly go to John Keeler's section. But the first time it goes to Koo Yin???? What is going on! Someone must have hacked it or written something I cannot find.

Please investigate and fix the problem - otherwise I am going to just redirect John Keeler to Minor characters in 24.

BUT PLEASE DON'T JUST DO THIS TO FIX THE PROBLEM. THERE IS IN FACT A PROBLEM HERE AND IT MUST BE ADDRESSED TO PREVENT OTHER SIMILAR POTENTIAL PROBLEMS ON WIKIPEDIA.

Actually..... strangely enough if you click this website I just gave, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Keeler#John_Keeler, it goes straight to proper John Keeler section! So.... I dunno, this may be a wikipedia problem, not an article problem.

Thank you much, ~ GoldenGoose100 (talk) 12:13, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] And what is going on with Evelyn Martin!!!??

Search Evelyn Martin right now and click on the 24 character option. What is going on with this article!!!! Is Wikipedia broken?? Is this article hacked? ~ GoldenGoose100 (talk) 12:23, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

The website for the actual Evelyn Martin (24 character) is http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Evelyn_Martin_%2824_character%29&redirect=no
yes the parentheses are indicated by %28 and %29 but what is wrong here? searching for it doesn't work, but typing the website directly into the address bar or just clicking on this link does work????
~ GoldenGoose100 (talk) 12:28, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
  • The disambiguation page linked to the Evelyn Martin redirect page. I'm not sure why it didn't redirect correctly, but I fixed it simply by changing the disambiguation page to point directly to Minor_characters_in_24#Evelyn_Martin. --Lquilter (talk) 19:06, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Are you kidding?!

Guys, I think that there is a VERY wrong tendency down here. More and more characters are merged with the "Minor characters" article. I mean, shouldn't we be going the exact opposite way? Shouldn't we make more and more articles about characters that don't have their own article yet and therefore widen the "24" part of Wikipedia? Instead, however, you guys squeeze everything by putting EVERYONE (even characters that played a really big role, like Chris Henderson, Stephen Saunders (the main villain of season 3 and also one of the most fascinating villains in the whole series), Paul Raines (WTH?!)) in this one article. Think it through. Let's make this part of Wikipedia as big as possible!

Gallez --89.79.112.157 (talk) 21:13, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

Sadly, it will not happen. It’s a war just to keep a handful of pages unmerged because certain, self appointed Wikiguardians are determined to merge or delete every page relating to fiction that they can. --MiB-24 (talk) 17:14, 9 February 2008 (UTC)

I don't find it "sad" that policies prevent us making "this part of Wikipedia as big as possible". We could make it even bigger simply by including full transcripts of every single character's every word, and all the stage directions, and lots and lots of detailed descriptions of their wardrobe, positioning, gestures, and hair style. The encyclopedia would not be improved. Gallez, an IP editor with two contributions who encourages editors to "think it through", has likely not read core policies like "Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not". It would be nice if more experienced editors could help inform new editors about the policies, rationales, and the existence of a reasonable debate between editors at an encyclopedia, rather than inflaming issues by describing them as a "war", and using utterly bad faith language to describe fellow editors. --Lquilter (talk) 16:26, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
My point is that some people do not want fiction related articles on Wikipedia. If you want to talk about “bad faith,” try this. A person runs to the admins and then to mediation because she can’t have her way. The people she had dragged into it try to come to a solution to the problem, but when the mediator does not rule in her favor, she just rejects it and goes off trying to merge articles again. That is bad faith. Never once did I or anyone else say every character on any TV show should have its own page. (I challenge you to find where I have supported such a position.) However, some pages should not or should never have been merged, but certain editors have done end runs around everyone else to get their way. --MiB-24 (talk) 18:34, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
Whatever my opinions -- and your opinions -- are about other editors and other disputes, there really doesn't seem to be any reason to bring them up here, in this discussion, with this anonymous editor, who in good faith posed a question. Let's agree that, in future, we will all try to use calm, neutral language to describe the various content disputes that occur on Wikipedia. We will agree to try to de-escalate conflicts, and avoid incendiary language. Gallez needs to understand core policies like Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not, as well as guidelines for implementing those policies like WP:Notability. With a better understanding of those policies & guidelines, Gallez will be better equipped to contribute usefully to talk page discussions. --Lquilter (talk) 18:58, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Why doesn't Jamey Farrell, the mole from season 1, have at least a section?

It doesn't make sense that Jamey Farrell redirects here but she doesn't even have a section. Please write one ~ GoldenGoose100 (talk) 08:35, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

Hi GoldenGoose100. Indeed, Jamey Farrell should have an entry. You're welcome to start one, too, and I might try to do it sometime soon. --Lquilter (talk) 18:59, 13 February 2008 (UTC)
The Jamey Farrell section is located on the minor agents page.--Lucy-marie (talk) 12:14, 15 February 2008 (UTC)
Yes... later that day I redirected all Jamey Farrells to the appropriate spot on minor CTU agents page. It's good that someone reformatted all of the sections of this page. Maybe the search will work well now. ~ GoldenGoose100 (talk) 04:49, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Tag added: Article is too long

I believe this article is much too long, due to the fact that an extremely large amount of characters have been merged into this one. One character, Reed Pollock, had his own article yesterday, yet it has now been merged into this one. Who was responsible for this, and was there consensus on it?

Also, this section on Walt Cummings:
Shortly afterwards Cummings is found hanged in an apparent suicide, but it is later revealed that Logan ordered Cummings' execution[original research?].

Wiki24 also has this version of events, in the Walt Cummings article. However, it points out that it was most likely Graem Bauer's suggestion.

If I could add references to this article, I would, but I am unsure on which sources to use, other than the television show. Steve Crossin (talk) 08:49, 15 February 2008 (UTC)

  • The article is also much too long because many of the character entries are much longer than can be supported by independent, reliable sources. Instead many of them include significant amounts of plot summary and original research. I cleaned up a few but more needs to be done. See also WP:FICT. --Lquilter (talk) 14:50, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Tag added: Multiple Issues

I've been watching this article for some time now, and it is in desperate need of attention. The article is close to unreadable at the moment, and it really needs restructuring. I propose a short term solution, at least to make the article more readable. It would be to further divide the sections up into seasons, the season when the character first appeared. It's not the best possible suggestion, but I think it's better than the current layout, for now. I'll begin the sectioning now, it can easily be reversed, and I believe it's in accordance with WP:AGF, I'm trying to help the article, not hurt it. Could you please discuss your opinions here before you revert all my edits, I think that it is only fair. I'm trying to improve the article, please respect that. Steve Crossin (talk) 02:11, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

  • I have no problem with the seasons lay out. You can also include recurring minor characters in later seasons: Just put their name, and a "see season X" reference with an internal anchor. --Lquilter (talk) 14:51, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Tag added: Duplication (Lynne Kresge)

I've compared the section in this article on Lynne Kresge, and the Wiki24 article on her, and they are extremely similar in content, some of the sections have been copied, word for word, from Wiki24, so I've added a duplication tag until this is fixed. Steve Crossin (talk) 05:47, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

I Removed your copypaste tag, since copypaste is for copyright issues and wikia's license is compatible with Wikipedia. The article is waaaay too long though. -- lucasbfr talk 11:26, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
  • It might be okay for licensing reasons, but it's not okay for style -- Wikia can have all kinds of original research and plot summary, and wikipedia can't. So this section is way too long. I'll edit it down. --Lquilter (talk) 15:09, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Temporary editing restriction on this subject

Please note that

“ 1) For the duration of this case, no editor shall redirect or delete any currently existing article regarding a television series episode or character; nor un-redirect or un-delete any currently redirected or deleted article on such a topic, nor apply or remove a tag related to notability to such an article. Administrators are authorized to revert such changes on sight, and to block any editors that persist in making them after being warned of this injunction. ”
Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Episodes and characters 2#Temporary injunction. Thanks -- lucasbfr talk 13:08, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] New Proposal: Splitting of Page

I am here to make a proposal, that the page be split into pages sorted by season. This would be sorted by season where the character first appeared, if they appeared in subsequent seasons, an anchor could be made linking to the first section. I'm proposing this based on a few reasons:

1. Splitting the section further increases the readability, and structure of the page- As pointed out by quite a few people, the pages length, and layout, at the moment, adversely affects this pages readability, I've showed a few people this article, and they agreed it is far too long.

2. Sorting by season creates more organisation- Chronologically sorting characters in order of appearance also can improve navigation and readability of the article

3. Few, if any, adverse effects- Splitting the artice into several pages, sorted by seasons, addresses, if only for the short term, the major readability issue of this article, and, the benefits of splitting the page outweigh the disadvantages, which can all be resolved, with redirection anchors. Each character that appeared in subsequent seasons could have a section on each page, for example, Walt Cummings was mainly in Season Five, yet first appeared in Season Four, so his section would be in something like- Minor Characters in 24:Government_and_Politcal:Season_Four#Walt Cummings, and there could be a redirection link on the Season 5 category page.

In summary, this proposal attempts to resolve the issues caused by all the articles merged into one page, increases the readability of the page, make it more organised. Wikipedia is a place of consensus, so of course, I will ask for opinions on this, if you object to this change, please explain clearly why. And saying that we should wait till all the articles have been merged before splitting the page up is detrimental. I suggest you read WP:SPLIT and WP:LENGTH, this article surely meets the requirements for splitting up.

And also take note of the current editing restriction on this topic, i've verified, splitting of this article has been permitted, further merging for now has been temporarialy halted. The comment was left by an admin on my talk page.

So what is the opinions of others? Steve Crossin (talk) 19:54, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

  • It's an interesting suggestion. I will say I don't love the splitting out of "minor characters" into "adversaries", "agents", "antagonists", and so on. The recent dispute points out that this really makes no sense, when someone can be both a "government and political figure", an "agent", and an "antagonist"; Spenser Wolff, for instance, could reasonably fit into agent & antagonist, and even arguably fit into "government...figure". I've often thought that it would probably be more helpful to simply have a complete index of characters, season by season is fine, with a one-sentence description for each, and a link to the appropriate more detailed biography, whether separate page or included in a "list of minor characters" page. In theory, we could actually include several brief indexes as well on the page, so that characters who play multiple roles (agent, adversary, ally), could be listed under each of those sections, and simply alphabetically in the full list. So one way to handle this would be to have "List of characters from Season n of 24"; the list could have several mini-indexes & one-sentence character bios that link to the individual character bios. What do you think of that? --Lquilter (talk) 22:05, 16 February 2008 (UTC)
I'm not 100% sure on what you are suggesting, however my current point of view is, that anything that improves this articles organisation, I would most likely be in support of. I believe it should be split into certain sections. How it is done, or what the sections are, I am not overly concerned about, as long as it is simple to navigate, and not confusing. Steve Crossin (talk) 22:18, 16 February 2008 (UTC)

Alexis Drazen, Andre Drazen, Josh Bauer, Lisa Miller (24 character), Marcus Alvers, Marilyn Bauer, Phillip Bauer, Reed Pollock and Reza Naiyeer have been suggested for merging and all of them seem pretty minor. Although I think they should be merged, the article itself (minor characters in 24) is way too long and merging them might even bring the article to a new low. There are a lot of characters on 24, most of who don't return. I think the article is better off as some sort of a list with a very, very brief description. And also I think the minor characters should be organized in bullet points instead of like === === which adds to the clutter. миражinred سَراب ٭ (speak, my child...) 16:34, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

  • Great ideas, and great work. I had been thinking about the subheadings versus bullet points, too, so I'm glad you picked up on that. --Lquilter (talk) 19:56, 17 February 2008 (UTC)


  • To the user who cleaned up this page, I take my hat off to you. This article is now very easy to read, gives clear, concise information about the characters, a good job well done. Can I reccomend we now work on the Minor CTU Agents in 24 page? Steve Crossin (talk) 00:11, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Hamri Al-Assad

Should he really be under villains? He's a former villain and "political figure" may suit him better. миражinred سَراب ٭ (speak, my child...) 17:44, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

  • I have added him to the "Government and Political figures" section. Anyone who has any objections to this, please explain why you object. Steve Crossin (talk) 03:13, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Keeler, Republican?

Someone had listed Keeler as a Republican. So far as I know, this is pure speculation; 24 has never mentioned particular parties. (And as far as speculation goes, there's contradictory evidence, anyway.) I've taken it out unless it can be sourced. --Lquilter (talk) 03:56, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

Wasn't one of the Palmers a Democrat? Oh well, this is why we need a source. мirаgeinred سَراب ٭ (talk) 04:19, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

And, do you agree with the move of Assad to Government and Political figures? Steve Crossin (talk) 04:23, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Noah Daniels

Daniels wasnt a minor character. He almost started a war with the middle east and he took over as president. He made many decisions and was basically president for half of day 6 and made many decisions. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 75.50.163.63 (talk) 00:13, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

Please see here for details as to why this was merged. Thanks. Steve Crossin (talk) (review) 02:44, 6 May 2008 (UTC)