Talk:Minkowski diagram
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[edit] Complete new Version
It's a translation of the german article I wrote in feb. 2005. Minkowski diagrams offer a great possibility to understand relativity graphically and without mathematics. I hope the article remains free from further formulas ;-). --Wolfgangbeyer 14:38, 7 June 2007 (UTC)
- I have reworked the section on "The speed of light as a limit", to smooth out wording, clarify and amplify. I have no doubt that the essential proposition is true if our usual notions of time and causality are correct, but I hope this is stated explicitly in Rindler (the only ref cited); otherwise, we are in danger of WP:OR charges, and need to find some further sources, not within the Wiki project. Cheers, Wwheaton (talk) 17:03, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
- The reference to Rindler's book is a holdover from the previous version of this article. If you look at the German version, of which this new English version is a translation, Rindler's book isn't referenced, so you may not find it. DonQuixote (talk) 16:02, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
- Oh dear, that means we really must have a better reference asap. I think it is widely understood among physicists, but I do not immediately know where it is explicitly stated and explained. I suppose Taylor & Wheeler's old book Spacetime Physics for undergraduates likely has it, but I do not have a copy handy. Does anyone who has a copy know if it is in there, or if not where a good reference can be found? I have put a request on Wolfgangbeyer's talk page, maybe he can supply something. Bill Wwheaton (talk) 18:08, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
- The reference to Rindler's book is a holdover from the previous version of this article. If you look at the German version, of which this new English version is a translation, Rindler's book isn't referenced, so you may not find it. DonQuixote (talk) 16:02, 19 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Minkowski diagram vs. Loedel diagram
The main page seems to mix the Minkowski spacetime diagram and the so-called Loedel spacetime diagram (by Enrique Loedel Palumbo) freely. The very first figure is actually a Loedel diagram, with two non-orthogonal axes systems. Technically and historically, the Minkowski and Loedel diagrams are not the same.
As far as I could establish [Shadowitz A. (1988) Special Relativity, Dover], the Loedel diagram was proposed in 1948 as an aid to teaching special relativity. I recommend that the author of the main Minkowski diagram article edit the page to reflect these facts.
Jorrie 03:53, 1 December 2007 (UTC)
- You are right. I have added a remark to the article so as to make reference to the term Loedel diagram. Perhaps the article needs some further modifications on this point. On the other hand, a Loedel diagram for the mutually moving reference systems A and B is nothing more than a Minkowski diagram for a "symmetrical observer" C (i.e. an observer for which A and B are moving in opposite directions with symmetrical speeds). Isn't it? -- JocK (talk) 13:01, 2 March 2008 (UTC)
Given that Loedel diagrams (proposed in 1948), are a subset of Minkowski diagrams, and that Minkowski obviously originated the larger idea (he died in 1909), it seems to me that this distinction is a pedagogical nit that deserves a footnote, but is not worth encumbering the article. A Loedel diagram is a Minkowski diagram, of a special type, right? Wwheaton (talk) 20:33, 10 April 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Time Dilation
Under the heading "time dilation" there appears the sentence, "Due to OB<OA he concludes that the time passed on the clock moving relative to him is smaller than that passed on his own clock since they were together at O." This implies that change in time is equal to the length of the the line. This is false; it should be corrected. 03:04, 31 January 2008 (UTC)
