Talk:Milton Orkopoulos

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography. For more information, visit the project page.
Biography Portal
Start This article has been rated as Start-Class on the project's quality scale. [FAQ]
This article is supported by the Politics and government work group.
Flag
Portal
 Milton Orkopoulos is within the scope of WikiProject Australia, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of Australia and Australia-related topics. If you would like to participate, visit the project page.
Start This article has been rated as Start-class on the quality scale.
Low This article has been rated as low-importance on the importance scale.
This article is supported by WikiProject Australian crime.
This article is supported by WikiProject Australian politics.
Assessment comments


Contents

[edit] Image

Perhaps a more experienced Wikipedian can let me know if this image is OK - unless someone wants to get a photo of the guy on his way to Belmont Police station some time soon? Joestella 14:20, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Tagged as Current Event

Given the allegations that have been made against Orkopoulos in the last 12 - 24 hours I've tagged this article as above. More experienced Wikipedians may like to advise. Xdenizen 10:22, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

I should think it will be a current event through until the election in March next year. Ajayvius 13:32, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

This is stupidity coming not only from the people which have no idea in the case of Milton Orkopoulos but from the people who are under the impression that he has committed these crimes. Milton Orkopoulos is a man which has had a great figure amongst our soicety and then for this to come along so unprecedently is very weird and suss. It is about time that people of Wikipedia stop speculating as the famous quote once said: "Idol speculation is the past-time of the fool". The problem is that Liberal supporters are trying their best to do anything to degrade Labor and it's name amongst our society. Why don't we focus on all that Liberal has done wrong including Peter Debnams failures? Please do not speculate and write that it has been proven that he has done these things, if you have no idea on the case or issue.

Andrew_Hermiz 16:31, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Well, it is done now. He is guilty and has been sentenced. I am still amazed at how a keen wiki contributor such as yourself compares poor performance at the polls (Debnam) with allegations of sexual assualt on children (Orkopoulos)Amazing. Why is there no picture of him here? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 124.19.40.220 (talk) 15:26, 21 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Naming Wife and Children

Milton only has one child and two step-children Hale74 (talk) 10:11, 22 May 2008 (UTC)

For the Third time, I have now removed the names of this man's wife and children from this entry. The inclusion of their names does not contribute to the article. Considering the sensitivity of the allegations which have been made againt Orkopoulos, the inclusion of irrelevant information such as this which identifies the members of his family, should be removed. I encourge others to add relevant information to this entry if they so wish. Protector,12 02:57, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Mr Orkopoulos is a public figure, the information in question is relevant and available on his parliamentary webpage. Other parliamentarians' pages have family members named. Joestella 03:32, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

I agree and I removed the childrens' names. --Ctang 08:32, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

I agree as well and support removing the names of the children especially since adding the names of Mr Orkopoulos' family happened only after these allegations came to light. That information can be gleaned by following the links in this page, at any rate. Xdenizen 20:55, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Well I can see I've been out-voted here. I would have thought that since the allegations have yet to be proven, there's no problem repeating information available in the news media and Parliament's webpage about his wife and kids' names. If you're so keen to spare the Orkopoulos family ... whatever you think you're sparing them, why not remove the reference to the criminal charges altogether? Joestella 04:34, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Because this is an article on Orkopoulos, not his wife and kids. I don't see how their names and the like are relevant, and given the hysteria that these sort of allegations also often produce, I think that leaving the information in would be irresponsible of us. Lankiveil 05:37, 15 November 2006 (UTC).
That seems like a presumption of guilt to me. For the moment, and perhaps forever, Orkopoulos is an "Australian politician" and not a criminal. "Leave the wife and kids out of" what exactly? Is someone going to see the names Kathy, Anastasia, Brad and Nicole Orkopoulos on Wikipedia and harm them in some way? No. Their names are already a matter of public record and they are in no way implicated. If you feel strongly about this, however, I invite you to trawl Wikipedia and remove references to the wives and children of convicted politicians the world over. Joestella 06:07, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
What does naming them bring to the article, that is not achieved by the current text ("Orkopoulos resides in Belmont, near Lake Macquarie, with his wife. They have three children.")? If they were somehow relevant to his public life I could understand, but it's pretty rude and inconsiderate to name figures from his private life, "just because". And people tend to go silly when paedophilia is mentioned, so I wouldn't put it past some idiot to do something silly to his family. Lankiveil 12:57, 15 November 2006 (UTC).
By that logic, you'd probably want to suppress his suburb, the fact that he has kids or is married, or for that matter the fact that he's been charged. After all, "people tend to go silly when paedophilia is mentioned" and you "wouldn't put it past some idiot to do something silly to his family" solely on the basis of information they found at Wikipedia. Joestella 13:00, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
This matter needs to be re-considered, wikipedia does not extend this policy of selective editing to other famous persons. The information is relevant to his biography, and is widely publically available; the fact his biography also includes an alleged instance of criminality, is not cause to remove their names. Rotovia (talk) 04:23, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
I've re-added the sentence that he is married and has three children, which is relevant to Orkopoulos as the subject of the article. I did not re-add that he lives in Belmont as he self-evidently doesn't since his conviction. I did not re-add the names of his children as their names are not notable in an article on Orkopoulos. In so doing I had regard for the articles on Morris Iemma and Barry O'Farrell which also state the number of children they have but not their names. Euryalus (talk) 06:16, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Chain of information from Police to Government

I removed the reference to the Police informing the Premier's Chief of Staff prior to the arrest. The Police informed the Police Ministry, which informed the Police Minister. The Police Minister's office (not the NW Police) then told the Premier's Chief of Staff.

This is an important distinction. The Government argues it is justifiable that the Police tell the Police Minister about serious crime issues and upcoming arrests. It is not justifiable, however, for the Police to tell someone outside the chain of command, such as the Premier's Chief of Staff.

The Police Minister's office passed the information to the Premier's office. This may or may not be appropriate, but it is not an action attributable to the Police themselves, but to the Police Minister.

The relevance of this entire issue is the suggestion that there was an attmept to tip off the Government, so that some kind of 'spin' could be prepared. This is an extremely serious allegation, which if proven is potentially a criminal offence. It is therefore essential that there be strict accuracy in the allegation of who said what to whom. Jeendan 07:56, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

  • Thanks for picking that up Jeendan - it is important that this be accurate. I have re-worded it to include a more complete account of who said what to whom. The more serious suggestion does not concern spin or damage control - more that the senior ALP staffers had the opportunity to remove evidence from MO's offices, which were searched after the arrest. As to whether "there was an attempt to tip off the Government", well - the government was tipped off, that's for sure. The only question now is why. Joestella 09:13, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Why are there honorifics in this article?

It is not Wikipedia standard to have "Mr" (or "Ms" etc) in an article. The surname alone will suffice after the first reference. In this article, it's acutally quite distracting due to the constant use of "Mr". Please fix unless there's some reason for it. Moncrief 00:26, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

thanks. Moncrief 22:37, 15 November 2006 (UTC)

What about in this article?

[edit] 50th birthday

What is the significance of this information? Is there an expectation that there will be a public birthday event? If no one can think of a good reason to keep this, I'll delete it in a day or so. Opposing views welcomed. Jeendan 23:17, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

"2007 will see Orkopoulos celebrating his 50th birthday in July. To date no details of what type of celebration will take place, the venue at which it may be held, or who may be invited to attend, have been publicly made."

I found this statement to be laugh-out-loud funny, so I laughed, and then removed it. Joestella 06:02, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
Any news on the birthday celebrations yet? Jeendan 00:14, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
I had forgotten about this little gem. Two months on, it's still hilarious. In answer to your question, it's not clear if it'll be a birthday or a going-away party. Joestella 05:19, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

Well, it would seem that his birthday has come and gone with no fanfare. His birthday was earlier in the same week that he was appearing in the Local Court and committed to stand trial in the District Court. A media article still indicated that he was 49 as well. Ajayvius 13:39, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Political ramifications" section

The sections at the end of this article appear to be a coatrack for a general snapshot of political doings at the time of Orkopoulos' arrest, rather than anything to do with Orkopoulos himself. It is important to put events in context but these sections are as long as the rest of the article and there is comparatively little need for a long contextual discussion to explain why a Minister being arrested on chld sex charges is a negative for his party.

I have kept the material relevant to Orkopoulos, being the claim that rumours had been circulating and that the Police Minister was advised ahead of time. I have removed the irrelevant material as follows:

  • "Guilt by association" references to Orkopoulos' former chief of staff and a former MP for the Blue Mountains, which presented biography of living persons concerns.
  • Some original research that Orkopoulos' arrest demonstrated a government in crisis.
  • Some verifiable but irrelevant material about a drink driving conviction and a domestic violence allegation against some unrelated people whose only connection was they were mentioned in the newspaper at about the same time.
  • A discussion about issues facing Labor governmetns in other states and the dumping of the then-Federal Oppostiion leader which are a "coatrack".

I am happy to discuss these changes if there are contrary views. Euryalus (talk) 05:15, 14 March 2008 (UTC)

I've also integrated the remaining "Political ramifications" section into "Arrest and conviction." The section was about the Police notification of the arrest prior to it occurring, rather than its ramifications afterward. It is a relevant part of the history but was not chronological order where it was and fitted more comfortably under the previous subheading.
I'm happy to discuss further if anyone disagrees. Euryalus (talk) 06:10, 20 March 2008 (UTC)
I think you've done an excellent job on this article. Balanced and neutral. Be well Xdenizen (talk) 06:51, 20 March 2008 (UTC)