Talk:Military slang

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Military slang article.
Article policies
MILHIST This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see lists of open tasks and regional and topical task forces. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.
Start This article has been rated as Start-Class on the quality scale.

I have modified Scaleyback from (US) to (UK). I presume it was a typo by the contributor. American signalers wear standard US cap badges. British ones have distinctive badges of branch. [[PaulinSaudi 08:45, 3 Jun 2004 (UTC)]]

Contents

[edit] Troop

I've pulled the following two definitions because they are not slang. These are the official terms in calvalry units. Rossami 15:25, 6 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Troop 
A company-level cavalry or armored unit.
Trooper 
(US) A calvalry or armored unit soldier. May also be used as a general reference to any soldier.

What about OCONUS and OPFOR?

A fair question. OCONUS is an official acronym, not really slang at all. It was moved here because it otherwise would have been moved to Wiktionary as a mere dictionary definition. Putting it here seemed like the better compromise at the time. Maybe it should also be pulled. OpFor is not strictly an acronym and, while it is commonly used and semi-official, it is not a word found in most dictionaries. I could go either way. Rossami 01:08, 11 Jun 2004 (UTC)

---

Needs to be added: Pvt Joe Snuffy: A generic private, used often in mailing address examples. (What are the origins of the name, however?)

[edit] re: Red

I've pulled this line because I don't think it is an example of military slang. My references show this as political slang (which may have been used by members of the military but not more or differently than it's usage by the general population). If anyone can specifically source this as Military slang, please add it back. Rossami 16:59, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)

Red - a communist, political enemy

[edit] Beaucoup

While it's true that "beaucoup" is also used in the civilian world, I would argue that its origins are military, because of the mispronunciation. It may have migrated into common parlance, but its origins are US Army in Vietnam, borrowing the French term "boh coo" from the Vietnamese. I first heard it from my instructor Master Sergeant George M. Fritz in 1980, who spent 3 tours in the Special Forces in Vietnam. "boh coo" is civilian "boo koo" is Army

If you argue that because it has migrated into civilian use that it is no longer a military term, then you would also have to say the same thing about GI.

Can't we just have fun here, or do we have to stray into pedanticism?

I'm onto you, Rodney King!  ;] Trekphiler 22:05, 22 December 2005 (UTC)

Hey, I liked that you used pedantic. It should be used more often around here. JamesMadison 06:54, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] deletion

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:What_Wikipedia_is_not#Wikipedia_is_not_a_dictionary

A lot of people would agree with you. This "list of" page was originally created as a compromise that consolidated many much smaller pages. ("Jarhead" was one of the first if I remember right.) If you want, you could always create each of these entries in Wiktionary, then follow the "What links here" and redirect all the current inbound links to links to the individual Wiktionary pages. It would be a lot of work but might be the right choice in the long run. Be bold. Rossami (talk)

[edit] G.I.

Before I fix this, is there really a credible cite somewhere for the "galvanized iron" etymology? Because GI meant "Government Issue" long before WW2... Blair P. Houghton 02:37, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC)

I gotta do everything myself. wordorigins has a ref for [1] that adds to the galvanized iron hitch. I'll see if I can't make the Military Slang entry more clear, maybe link it to GI...wouldn't that be squared away... Blair P. Houghton 15:52, 5 Feb 2005 (UTC)

The "galvy" citations generally seem to come from the UK. It's nonsense, in my judgement. Google "GI soldier galvanized iron" as opposed to "GI soldier government issue" and the weight is overwhelmingly on the latter. Certainly I never heard the galvy theory until today.
Among other Government Issue cites I find one for the CCC of the 1930s, so it was indeed current before WWII.
Further, the term shouldn't have full stops. In neither of my dictionaries (Webster's Collegiate and the New Shorter Oxford) is it spelled thus. --Cubdriver 14:37, 17 July 2005 (UTC)
Galvanized Iron also existed long before WWII. I have definitively sourced the Galvanized Iron etymology and documented my sources a while back in an edit summary. Having trouble finding it tonight but I'll do it again if we must. Rossami (talk) 04:35, 18 July 2005 (UTC)
Yes, Oxford online gives the "galvanized iron" meaning, with the qualifier that it is used chiefly in the term "G.I. can". It also gives the "Government (or General) Issue" meaning under a separate definition. I don't think one is the descendant of the other, I think they had coincedentally identical abbreviations, i.e. they are two separate terms with different etymologies. SigPig 15:00, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] AGAnauten removed

See Entry. This term is unknown outside of www.aganauten.de and is not a generic term. It was deleted as Spam on deWikipedia long ago. -83.129.6.232 01:22, 29 August 2005 (UTC)

This is my first edit, so take it easy. From my army tours in the mid 80s we used "APC" for a short form for travelling 'a pieds collice', by foot, in French. In the same vein 'black cadillacs' referred to combat boots as another mode of transport. Another term used is "buck shee" for ad hoc or free, I believe it is an English army term of East Indian origin meaning free scrounge.

I remember "black cadillacs". Got 20 miles/gallon (of sweat). As for buckshee, the British brought it back from India; orig Persian baksheesh. SigPig 15:36, 30 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] TDY or TDD

I know we already have TDY but what about Temporary Detached Duty? Or is it the same thing? If it is you might want to put in that it's also know as Traveling Around Drunk in some circles. Although I don't know why. Whispering 05:22, 26 November 2005 (UTC)

TDY is most commonly used in the US Army and US Air Force (and among persons affiliatd, such as civil servants and contractors working with the service in question); TAD (Tempoary Attached Duty) is used in US Navy and US Marine Corps jargon. TDD does not, so far as I know, exist; One is always attached to some organization. (TAD as Traveling Around Drunk? I could see the connection, but have never heard it used like that.) --Penta 00:16, 5 December 2005 (UTC)
Ah silly me it is TAD don't know where I got TDD from. As far as Traveling Around Drunk goes I've heard US Navy people use that phrase. But I don't know if it is mainstream or just something just they use. Whispering 00:55, 13 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Sources

For a book full of terms, including dating (which the article could use, I think), see Swear Like a Trooper. Trekphiler 18:19, 12 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Ate-up

When I was in the U.S. Army (1990s) it was a fairly common phrase: "Ate up with a dumbass" which was shortened to "ate-up" when "with a dumbass" was deemed inappropriate for the sake of propriety or the slacker-soldier was not quite that deficient. I do not know if "Ate-up with a dumbass" was originally the full phrase, or if the additional words were added later. Like cadences and Jody-calls, this phrase may vary from location to location, but I certainly agree that "ate-up" is a universal catchword among soldiers. Erebras January 6, 2006

[edit] 0 Dark 30

The entry says Navy and Marines, but this is also used in the Army, mostly for formations called before sunrise.

[edit] WHAT DOES "LOWLY FIRST -YEAR CADET MEAN?

TO WHO EVER CAN TELL ME WHAT WORD DO THEY USE IN TBE BRITISH MILITARY FOR THIS PERSON?


[edit] Dead in the Water

"dead in the water" while used by the military, it is neither unique to nor did it originate with military slang.

I added Dead in the water" back because:

  1. It IS slang used by the military. I know, I caused one.
  2. It doesn't matter if it's unique. MANY of those terms have seeped into Civvie speech and are no longer unique.
  3. It doesn't matter that it didn't orginiate with the military, it's STILL a slang term used in the Navy/Coast Guard.

arfon 02:29, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Actually, it matters a great deal. This is, after all, supposed to be an encyclopedia article on military slang, not a mere definition list. To be more precise, this is not a concordance of all slang that happens to be used by the military. This list was created to describe slang terms which are either unique to the military or which can be verifiably shown to have originated with the military. It must meet one of those two criteria or it has no place in the list.
No one disputes that the phrase "dead in the water" is used by the military. We even used the term in the Army. But it's also in wide use outside the military and has been for a very long time. The military is made up of people who came from all walks of life. They bring their language with them into the service. Slang that happens to be used by military people is not synonymous with military slang.
Of course, the other inclusion criteria is slang which originated with the military before moving out to wider usage. Unfortunately, I know of no reference demonstrating that "dead in the water" originated as a military slang phrase. Until someone can cite a reliable source that this phrase originated with the military, it is inappropriate for this list.
By the way, a corcordance of all slang used by the military would be an interesting list. However, the proper place for such concordances is an appendix in Wiktionary. Perhaps this list should be transwiki'd there so it can be expanded as you suggest. Rossami (talk) 03:35, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
1) Actually, the article says: "...terms used commonly by military personnel...". It doesn't say anything about a requirement of "...to describe slang terms which are either unique to the military or... ...to have originated with the military".
2) Exactly, how do you know that the term didn't originate from the Royal Navy? The only place I have ever heard it was in the Navy.
3) If we are sticking to only words/terms that "...are either unique to the military or... ...to have originated with the military", we must remove MANY from the list because I saw MANY words/terms that don't fit those requirements.
Therefore, I an adding "Dead in the water" back. arfon 05:58, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
The rule about "only slang unique to or originating with the military" has been a guiding principle of this page since it's first edit. It's been well understood for years. If you think the current version of the header poorly describes that principle, fix it.
Yes, that principle should apply to all the terms on this list. If you see others on this list which fail to meet that principle, then they should also be removed from the page. (Historically, this page has needed periodic pruning. It's probably past due.)
To answer your second bullet, I don't know that the term didn't originate from the Royal Navy (or any other navy). As far as I know, the origins of this phrase may be lost in the mists of time. But that's not the requirement in WP:V. According to Wikipedia policy, we have to know that it did originate in the military before it can be appropriately kept on the list. The burden of proof for all encyclopedic content is on verification prior to inclusion. Rossami (talk) 06:20, 9 May 2006 (UTC)
1)The rule about "only slang unique to or originating with the military" has been a guiding principle of this page since it's first edit. It's been well understood for years. - This crap about an 'un-written' rule is that, CRAP! The description says "...terms used commonly by military personnel..." PERIOD. The ONLY place I have ever heard "dead in the water" was while I was in the navy thus it's a term "commonly by military personnel".
2) "we have to know that it did originate in the military before it can be appropriately kept on the list." there is NOT ONE SHRED OF PROOF that any of the other terms originated in the military NOR could most be proven. So by that argument, this whole page should be eliminated.
3) The only proof offered that "dead in the water" did not originate for the military is you (Rossami) saying that it didn't. where's your proof of it's origins?arfon 22:25, 19 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Jarhead insult

I also have removed this comment from the entry on "Jarhead". This page is for slang that is unique to or which originated with the military. To the extent that we include etymologies of these slang words, we should only be including the real etymologies. This is just a random interservice insult. It is not seriously believed nor, in my 15 years in the US Army, was it even used in jest.

This page is already borderline non-encyclopedic. If we include every random insult, joke and pun that's ever been used in the service, we'll lose the page completely. Rossami (talk) 02:28, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

I will accept that for that reason, but I insist on a reason. We did use that etymology when I was in the Army. Maybe it was more common in the 70s and 80s than now. GABaker 02:44 2 June 2006 UTC.
I have cited two dictionary etymologies: the hat one (American Heritage Dictionary) and a stubborn, foolish person/mule (Oxford). Merriam-Webster online doesn't give an etymology. MarineWives.com says it's old Navy slang, since a Marine in a blue uniform with white cover looked like a contemporary Mason jar (which was apparently blue). As for Mason making helmets, I can't find a cite for that -- all mentions of this seem to be on sites stating the origin of "jarhead", so it may be an oft-repeated urban legend. I cannot find any other authoritative sources yet. SigPig 04:33, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Slang?

There are terms in here that aren't slang, but official terms or abbreviations. Like "BCCT" - this looks like an official acronym. If we start including these (and AOR, BDU, etc) this article will become unwieldy and useless. Unless anyone strenuously objects, I'm going to start weeding out the jargon. SigPig 17:19, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

Please do. They probably belong either at List of government and military acronyms, Category:Military acronyms or List of modern military terms and acronyms (though that last currently redirects to the inappropriately named List of modern infantry related terms and acronyms.) Rossami (talk) 19:54, 2 June 2006 (UTC)

OK, I've started pruning jargon acronyms; i.e. FUBAR and BUFF are slang and should stay; AOR and BDU are actual terms and should go. If I've inadvertantly deleted one which is actual slang as opposed to a real acronym, please advise and correct. (Sound of whipper-snipper starting up...) SigPig 11:17, 8 June 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Attention: Slang Glossary policy discussion underway

Slang glossaries violate the following policy:

Wikipedia is not a dictionary

Wikipedia is not a dictionary or a usage or jargon guide. Wikipedia articles are not:

  1. Dictionary definitions. Because Wikipedia is not a dictionary, please do not create an entry merely to define a term. An article should usually begin with a good definition; if you come across an article that is nothing more than a definition, see if there is information you can add that would be appropriate for an encyclopedia. An exception to this rule is for articles about the cultural meanings of individual numbers.
  2. Lists of such definitions. There are, however, disambiguation pages consisting of pointers to other pages; these are used to clarify differing meanings of a word. Wikipedia also includes glossary pages for various specialized fields.
  3. A usage guide or slang and idiom guide. Wikipedia is not in the business of saying how words, idioms, etc. should be used. We aren't teaching people how to talk like a Cockney chimney-sweep. However, it may be important in the context of an encyclopedia article to describe just how a word is used to distinguish among similar, easily confused ideas, as in nation or freedom. In some special cases an article about an essential piece of slang may be appropriate.

Due to the many AfDs which are initiated to enforce this policy and due to the resistance to such deletion by defenders of the glossaries, I have started a discussion at Wikipedia talk:What Wikipedia is not#Slang glossaries to rewrite the policy in order to solve this problem and to readdress this question: should slang glossaries by allowed on Wikipedia? --List Expert 23:45, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ratfuck

This is a great term and should be included.

Ratfuck: to take certain items from a bag or container and leave the less useful items behind. Take the best and leave the rest.

usage: The M&M's are missing from every one of these, who ratfucked the MRE's?

The antenna is missing some asshole ratfucked the a-bag.

Marine Term from the 80's and before probably still in use today.

[edit] Re: Ratfuck

Indeed we still use the term "ratfuck." Well at least a salty gunny and a major both used it seperately in a time gap of 30 seconds on one particular occassion when we were trying to distribute MREs. Ratfucking of MREs (or the perception of it) is apparently high on some staff ncos pet peeve list. --ProdigySportsman 03:05, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Moving to Wiktionary

I just added the {{copy to wiktionary}} template to this article. Wikipedia is not a dictionary, and what else is this article besides a dictionary? The same move was already done in the Finnish Wikipedia article of military slang — you can see the interwiki link for yourself. --ZeroOne (talk | @) 09:31, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

  • Endorse. Should have been done years ago. The new Wiktionary:Appendices are perfect for this kind of list. All the inbound links can be repointed as a cross-wiki link and this page made into a cross-project redirect. Rossami (talk) 14:44, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Endorse the move. However the intro is probably worth keeping here as an article (still needing cleanup...), with a link to wiktionary replacing the list? Hmm, I think I know another "list" like this that needs tagging....--J Clear 23:17, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
  • Oppose. This is not a dictionary definition. It belongs less on Wiktionary than it does here. It serves the purpose of a Wikipedia list. A cross-wiki redirect sounds weird, and it wouldn't be useful unless the moved article had cross-wiki redirects back here itself. Gene Nygaard 10:15, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
I did the move now. I left the actual article (intro) here and moved only the list. Wiktionary:Appendices is really the right place for this. --ZeroOne (talk | @) 23:21, 27 October 2006 (UTC)