Talk:Military of the Republic of China

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[edit] Sovereignty

I would like to point out that most people consider taiwan to be part of China, and not a nation of it's own. AND there are no legal documentations whatsoever that declares Taiwan an independent nation. Therefore it is rude to call taiwan the "Republic Of China". --Primexx 03:28, Sep 16, 2004 (UTC)

quite the opposite. That's we call it the "Republic of China" instead of "Taiwan": "The Republic of China (ROC) maintains a large military establishment..." instead of "Taiwan maintains a large military establishment..." This is an issue for wikipedia:naming conventions (Chinese). --Jiang 03:45, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)

The so called "republic of china" does not exist, because it is part of The People's Republic Of China. --Primexx 23:10, Sep 17, 2004 (UTC)

there's a government in Taipei claiming to be the Republic of China. Therefore it exists whether in de facto or de jure form. Please see our NPOV policy. --Jiang 02:39, 18 Sep 2004 (UTC)

if you are not biased, then you wouldent say that it is a nation.

i didnt call it a nation. it is a de facto sovereign state. the debate is over whether it is de jure, not whether it exists at all. --Jiang 05:50, 18 Sep 2004 (UTC)
A sovereign state that cannot proclaim it's sovereignty in fear of total dismantling? Yes, very sovereign. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Vlad Dracula (talk • contribs) 03:36, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
Most states face limits on what they can do without encountering resistence from their neighbors. Taiwan faces a particularly large and unreasonable neighbor and makes its own decisions about how to adjust its policies to deal with that neighbor.Readin (talk) 04:52, 9 June 2008 (UTC)
One of the ironies here is that Beijing would much rather deal with a group of people calling themselves the Republic of China than a group of people calling themselves Taiwan. There have been quite a number of recent articles in the People's Daily complaining that Chen Shuibian wants to use the name Taiwan instead of the Republic of China. Also its pretty clear that if the government in Taipei formally changes it name to Taiwan and formally abolishes the ROC, then the PRC will take military action.
Roadrunner 06:23, 18 Sep 2004 (UTC)

well thats news to me....i wish they wouldent take military action though... --Primexx 05:55, Sep 23, 2004 (UTC)

Some people would say that attempting to govern a group of people without their consent is rude. Anyway, even if people don't officially recognize the Republic of China (Taiwan) as an independent country, it acts independently from the People's Republic of China, and that's worth noting. - Shaheenjim 22:05, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

Not really, since it is limited in what it can and can't do by it's larger neighbour. For example, if it were to acquire weapons of mass destruction, it would be attacked and dismantled. If it were to announce it's sovereignty, it would be attacked and dismantled, if it were to step too far out of line in general, it would be attacked and dismantled. Thus it is only sovereign on it's own territory, it's foreign conduct is more akin to that of a satellite/client territory. Taiwan is basically an autonomous region of china, it is so economically dependent on the mainland that if it rocked the boat, the umbilical would be cut and the regime on the island would be dismantled with force in about 3 days. If the us were to intervene in what is an internal chinese matter, it would face the costliest war since ww2, and one it wouldn't necessarily win. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Vlad Dracula (talk • contribs) 03:40, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

Not really, since it is limited in what it can and can't do by it's larger neighbour. If by "larger neighbor" you mean the United States of America, you have a point. Taiwan relies on the U.S.A. for protection from China and because of that has become something of a satellite of the U.S.A., adjusting its policies to suit the desires of the U.S.A.. One desire of the U.S.A. is to have good relations with China, so the U.S.A. tells Taiwan to avoid doing things that China will get upset about. But it is the U.S.A. that Taiwan is listening to. Even so, Taiwan still sometimes thumbs its nose at the U.S.A. as when recently they held a democratic referendum that the U.S.A. objected to. Taiwan faces an unusually hostile international environment and must adjust to that reality, but Taiwan still independently decides how to adjust.Readin (talk) 04:52, 9 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Category structure

I've removed some recently added categories which are redundant or do not apply:

When adding categories please take care to add only nonredundant and categorizations under the correct context. Thanks. -Loren 16:13, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] regardless of naming conventions

it seems to be, at the very least, disingenuous to have military of taiwan redirect here. there are instances of military capacity on the island – the IDF being at least one facet thereof, submarines being another – which have nothing to do with PRC's military.

perhaps a little reality to go with by-the-book policy. 66.92.170.227 22:20, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Navigational templates

These should not be used, see User talk:Privacy#Navigational templates. --Ideogram 17:17, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Explain here yourself. Don't bring unrelated matters to my talk page. - Privacy 17:36, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Grand Marshal rank

Wikipedia's article on the rank of Grand Marshal says that the Republic of China has a military rank called Hai Lu Jun Da Yuan Shuai that is like a Grand Marshal. This article makes no reference to that. Did that rank used to exist, but it was discontinued? If so, when was it discontinued? Same question about the rank of Generalissimo, since the article on Grand Marshal implies that the Republic of China had a military rank of Generalissimo. - Shaheenjim 22:05, 5 September 2007 (UTC)

The military underwent a major reorganization sometime in the 60s and 70s, adopting a system closer to that of NATO. I suspect the ranks you mentioned were discontinued around then. -Loren 07:27, 30 September 2007 (UTC)
Can anyone cite a source that confirms this (specifically for the Hai Lu Jun Da Yuan Shuai rank)? Thanks. - Shaheenjim 00:46, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Naming conventions

Please note that we use "Republic of China (Taiwan)", not "Republic of China" as the former indicates the official name but at the same time making reference to the geographical location (i.e. the island) that everyone knows. This is the official naming convention in regards to Taiwan.

Furthermore please do not remove the flags without explanation. John Smith's (talk) 17:33, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Edits by anon editor

The anon IP editor 219.78.29.103 has made a number of edits to the article. In doing so he or she appears to be trying to down-play or remove references to Taiwan as being a separate entity from China, as well as the ROC's sovereignty. Regardless of the politics in the China-Taiwan relationship, for the purposes of the modern aspect of this article they are separate. Furthermore incorrect assertions have been made, such as how the Taiwanese government under the DPP has been "Chinese nationalist". Clearly this is not correct.

Thus I have reverted the edits to an earlier stable version. I would suggest to the IP editor that they not attempt to restore these edits. John Smith's (talk) 20:45, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

That user made dozens of changes, and you reverted all of them. I restored 3 of them, since I think those 3 were good, but I'm ok with the reversion of the rest. - Shaheenjim (talk) 21:02, 15 May 2008 (UTC)
Yes, I reverted all of them because I didn't agree with them, the user hadn't left an edit summary nor had used the talk page. But I'm not going to cause a stink about your partial reversion. John Smith's (talk) 22:11, 15 May 2008 (UTC)