Talk:Military of Ukraine

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The page needs serious widening and editing. Hope to find time for that. Just for start, I've made some edits using conventional English terms. Later I'll explain them with official Ukrainian names. AlexPU 16:31, 28 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Might want to work this in somewhere: Siberia Airlines Flight 1812. A2Kafir 20:52, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC)

Contents 1 T-55 2 Frigates 3 Internal security during election unrest 4 Translating Ukrainian Featured Article 5 Whose is this? 6 Military industry 7 Military history 8 Ukraine Budget

[edit] T-55

Michael, хто їх знає, що в них in service. Вони, по-моєму, геть усе вже розпродали/розкрали... Military in Ukraine is highly untransparent. AlexPU

I was wondering about the list of equipment here, myself. My understanding is that the USSR was widely equipped with the very latest, but kept a lot of very old equipment in reserve service and war stores. Я не маю поняття що Україна ще уживає. I'll see if I can find a recent Jane's Fighting Vehicles at the library, and look up some realistic information. —Michael Z.

To the best of my knowledge, they were selling the old equipment out in 1990s. That's how Ukraine, producing almost null of armaments in mid-1990s, got on the world's top ten of sellers :). It wolud be interesting to find out what the Jane's knows. Pryvit, AlexPU

I honestly believe that Ukraine doesnt actually have any t-55s IN SERVICE anymore, I'm willing to believe that they have a few stocked up in a warehouse waiting to be sold to some desperate nation but I doubt that there are any in service since there are t-55s in museums in kievs...

A few references T-55/125 is on IDEF-2003 exhibition in 2003 (Ukrainian). , Optical equipment enhancement offer for T-55 (Russian)., Engine and weapon enhancement offir for T-55АГМ (Russian). and finally in English 17 Lviv Mechanical Maintenance Plant.. And definite count - "12 T-55 tanks" in 2003 London, UK-based Institute for Strategic Studies appraises Ukrainian Armed Forces' personnel as 295,500-strong.. Ukraine has all thouse repair faculties for countries like Azerbaijan’s (123 T-55), Uganda (about 100 T-55) --TAG 08:07, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Frigates

what are ukraine's 7 frigates? I thought Ukraine only had 2 frigates( the sebastopol being actualy unable to set to sea) and 4 corvettes? User:Domnu Goie

Indeed. Anyway, we have more corvettes than frigates :) . The block is tagged for now. Ukrained 00:07, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Internal security during election unrest

This controversial issue is addressed here (and here by me recently). That's why the section is tagged. Ukrained 23:23, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

I also find the story hard to beleive at face value but NYTimes is one of the most respactable papers and we cannot say that what it wrote is plain BS unless we can find other respectable sources that discredit that article. BTW, the links above "here and here" do not direct to your addressing the issue. --Irpen 23:27, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

Ooops... The issue is addressed by my edit here. Thanks for alerting. Ukrained 23:37, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

I looked at your edit there and I disagree with this approach. NYTimes rarely publish dubious info, although it happends of course, as with any media. However, if they make a blunder, it becomes known from the media itself, like the Bush's service records published by CBS that were later found out to be forged [1]. You say "not confirmed". This may apply if this is found on some web-blog or a tabloid. NYTimes story cannot be considered dubious until it is rebutted, not vice versa. That said, I find all this hard to beleive myself, but I don't claim the authority in news services and, as a wiki-writer, accept the version of the respected paper, in attributed form, until it is rebutted. --Irpen 23:47, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

Duly noted. But I still think we should either rewrite the section or keep tag. The current text looks like documenting the mere facts. Ukrained 00:04, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

Fine with me, please rewrite the section by presenting the version in attributed form, similar to what was done in the OR article. Like "According to..." --Irpen 00:42, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Translating Ukrainian Featured Article

See User:Mzajac/Military of Ukraine

[edit] Whose is this?

Can anyone tell me anything about this ship? It has both Russian and Ukrainian flag (probably in Sevastopol) and then a Russian navy ensign. And can anyone confirm exactly what kind of this is? P.S. I don't know much about navies. Thanks, Bogdan 23:32, 10 September 2007 (UTC)
And another, http://www.foxbat.ru/maks/parad_vmf04_/index.php?picid=parad_vmf04_016 ....Bogdan 23:35, 10 September 2007 (UTC)

They are Russian. Ukrainian navy has a U and a number - U111. Russians only have a number. Same with Sea Guard vessels. They have - BG111. I'll look for more info. Ракетный корабль на воздушной подушке "Бора" (т.н.615) Парад в честь дня ВМФ России (с участием авиации ВМФ и ВМСУ) в Севастополе (20-25.07.04). Ceriy 12:51, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Military industry

Some of the discussion of military industry seems to be more appropriate for economy of Ukraine than this article. —Michael Z. 2007-09-23 15:25 Z

[edit] Military history

It seems quite funny that Ukraine has chosen to retain the honorifics and awards of the Soviet units granted by the Soviet government under Soviet constitution. These awards can never again be awarded to any other Ukrainian unit, and retention of the "Red Banner" is doubly ironic. Seems to be a bit of a first in military history for one country to 'borrow' achievements of another for its armed forces--mrg3105mrg3105 01:20, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Why should the units give those award up, those awards were earned by soldiers who served in them, its part of the units history.Ceriy (talk) 01:38, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

The units no longer exist as is the armed forces (Soviet Army) and the country (USSR) within which they served. Russia may claim the unit histories because it recognises the awarding of the awards of the Soviet era under the current Constitution, but Ukraine does not. Simply renaming the units in the same way it was done after the Second World War and retaining the honorifics is not right because during the Soviet era the units were reflagged also, this means a new flag was issued and the awards were transferred to it by the Central Historical Directorate of the Soviet Army. Where did the Ukrainian units get their flags? In any case, the only reason these units were in Ukraine is because of Soviet administrative assignment and not for any other reason. There is absolutely no connection for most of these units to the current independent state of Ukraine. The awards earned by the veterans are unrelated to the units, except the awarding of the Guards status which has also changed (see the badge?!) Take the 24th Brigade. It was raised in the Urals! How many Ukrainians served in that division? The 24th division has a rather longer history in the military history of Russia and was present at Borodino. Should that be included?--mrg3105mrg3105 01:58, 26 January 2008 (UTC)

Sorry, that's not 100% clear. The 24th Rifle Division fought at Borodino - but when? Against Napoleon or against the Germans in '41? Buckshot06 (talk) 09:34, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Ukraine Budget

I am looking for references for the Military Budget of Ukraine, (To update another article, List of countries by military expenditures), most of the references I have come across seem to point to +4 Billion USD expenditure but here it is listed at +1.5 Billion.
Is anybody able to come up with a more reliable source so we can update both articles with a more accurate figure. FFMG (talk) 06:03, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Source is "White Book for 2007 Defence policy of Ukraine", page 103. Book is published annually by MoD of Ukraine. Figures are listed in hryvnia. Exchange rate is around 5 hryvnias for 1 U.S. dollar. proposed - 9 130,5 mil hryvnias - ~1 826,1 mil $; received - 8 071,1 mil hryvnias - ~1 614 mil $.http://www.mil.gov.ua/files/white_book/white_book_uk2007.pdf Ceriy (talk) 13:26, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

Ok, I'll change it now. Thanks

The papers I had found were quoting 22,3 billion hryvnyas, (http://unian.net/eng/news/news-239282.html). FFMG (talk) 13:55, 4 March 2008 (UTC)