Talk:Military of Azerbaijan

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The article is a total mess. I do not undertsand why should one write something on military of which he or she has no clue and about a country on which has no idea.

Most of errors concern the names, functions and subordination of the branches of the 'military' (such as non-existent national guard, interior guard etc.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.129.1.52 (talk) 21:24, 28 November 2007 (UTC)


Contents

[edit] Grammar and platform details

I edited some information which suggested that MT-12 was a tank (its a towed gun) and inferred that 9A52 war armored (is a truck). The "expert opinions" on the preparedness, training and readiness of the Azer's army do not agree with what I have read in the past, but yet again, most info on the military date back from the mid-90's.

[edit] Edit's

If anyone has more information the military equipment of azerbaijan, please post it. This article is lacking info and it could really use photos--Moosh88 20:51, 6 March 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Azeri Military

I just added some new information, most is tekst from the latest document released in 2004 and 2005. Most information given here was incorrect and way to old, some information was even dating back to 1998. All the sources I used I also added to links. You can visit CIA site for more information.

[edit] POV article

  • This is a very POV article and I'm going to make changes to it. Especally the part about the azeri military being stronger than the combined armies of Armenia and Georgia, even the links you gave a very baised toward azerbaijan.--Moosh88 21:28, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
Why are you making changes here without a debate while you are asking for a discussion before any edit on Armed Forces of Armenia page?--Kagan the Barbarian 09:04, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
And then he deletes my comments in the talk page and says I am anti-Armenian, I dont understand that either.

I changed those POV words such as "occupation", "liberation" into "capture". Also, changed the inflated 20% to the 13-14% used in the Nagorno-Karabakh War article per De Waal source there. - Fedayee (talk) 03:05, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Edits

What is a POV article man? The links I gave are international links, are you saying that the CIA, UN, Department of State are now biased? I made some edits to your article because those arent confirmed yet, for example when you said that Azerbaijan will atempt to liberate Karabakh. That has not yet been confirmed, it is a option, but not confirmed.

The reason why I stated that Azerbaijan army is stronger then Georgia and Armenia combined is because in the military of Armenia page it has the same saying. Then you must also edit that.

POV stands for Point of View (your personnel opinion), and by Wikipedia guidelines all editors are to take a non point of view stance when editing all articles. Just because you used some info from the UN or CIA doesn't mean you can't word the info to be POV, it's not very hard to do that. In the UN website you gave me the link to, it only gives the imported tanks and large artillery systems that azerbaijan bought from ukraine (under the 2004 section). If you used info from previous years, it may be outdated and incorrect.

How many times has the leader of your country said that if the OSCE negotiations fail, azerbaijan will attempt to conquer Karabagh with military force? He may be blowing smoke, but he could also be serious. So by him saying that, he is confirming that the use of force is an option.

I've read in a number of articles that the Armenian military is stronger than both the georgian and the azeri, it is not biased, and unlike you I didn't put that it was stronger than the two combined, which would be incorrect. Also, until either the georgian or azeri military proves themselves in a war (by winning) then they can't come out and say for 100 percent that they have the most powerful military.

My goal is not to get into a fight with you, I really hope we can avoid that and contribute meaningfully to Wikipedia.--Moosh88 19:15, 13 March 2006 (UTC)

I do not agree with you about who is stronger, Im just following the fact that Azerbaijan has more military stuff. I think a good solition would be to just remove the line were is says that Armenia is stronger then Azerbaijan in your own article.

Also I do not like the statement of the missiles, you write that those missiles can reach Baku and Ankara. This comes pretty offensive, maybe you should just write the distance it can travel instead targets.

I made some new edits to this page, making it more neutral and less challenging.

Added Afghanistan and Iraq to the article:
http://www.nato.int/issues/afghanistan/040628-factsheet.htm Baku87 01:15, 18 March 2006 (UTC)Baku87

[edit] Air Force

Few 100% doubts.

  1. Azerbaijan has no MiG-29s
  2. or Su-27s
  3. Image is of Su27 not MiG29 in Russian markings
  4. WRT to №3 this is the roundel of AzAF [1]
  5. Same with the pair of su25

Accoriding to [2] in 1999 Azerbaijan Air Force had the following aircraft:

  • MiG-25PD/RB/U 8/14/6
  • MiG-21 5
  • Su-17M 4
  • Su-24 5
  • Su-25 2
  • Mi-24 15
  • Mi-8 13
  • Mi-2 7
  • L-29 18
  • L-39 12
  • An-12 1
  • An-24 1
  • II-76 3
  • Tu-134A 1

--Kuban Cossack 02:37, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Azerbaijan Air force has no Mig-29s, at least officially. I'm not sure about the Su-27, cause I've heard there were some new purchases of those, but I'd like to see a source about that. The info from mylima.com is outdated. It says 1999 but actually that's when they posted it, the real info is probably a couple of years older. Which means that it doesn't give an accurate info in a sense that we do not know if all those aircraft are still servisable or if there are any new purchases. UN records show that there was a purcahse of 6 Su-25s from Georgia, which looks a bit strange considering the source country, but it is an official record, so we might consider it accurate, I guess. And a large number of the aircraft are actually Albatros and Delfin training aircraft. Some of them might be modified as combat aircraft but, it is not sure whether any of those in Azerbaijan are actually modified or even if they have the capability for such a modification. Anyways, a new updated and reliable info would be most appreciated. --TimBits 03:38, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

Have a look at these links (both in Russian). [3] [4] According to Russian Nezavisimaya gazeta, Azerbaijan has 4 Su-27. But these sources contradict each other in some details. Grandmaster 17:21, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

The article doesn't mention the Mig-29. I will let baku87 edit the content on the Air Force section of the article.--Moosh88 20:16, 18 March 2006 (UTC)

The article has been corrected on the given facts Baku87 15:57, 20 March 2006 (UTC)Baku87

The article is missing sources on the recent "additions" listed regarding Tu-16s, Mi-24s, etc. Whoever posted originally, please provide.

Same problem with other data on weapons holdings, particularly on artillery systems. Please provide sources, especially when reported data conflicts with official statistics available via OSCE CFE, UN, etc. and reported and/or estimated by IISS, Jane's, etc.

[edit] Leadership of Ministry of Defense

I propose to outline all former Defense Ministers and Chiefs of Staff, incl. from ADR years. That means: Mehmandarov, Valekh Barshatdly (two times, once as Minister and once as Chief of Staff), Rzayev, T.Mekhdiyev, R.Gaziyev, M.Mamedov, T.Aliyev and others. --AdilBaguirov 23:56, 11 June 2006 (UTC)

Support. Also the history of Azerbaijani army should start from 1918, and not 1991. Grandmaster 04:46, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
And in future we might expand it by adding a short historical summary of ethnic Azerbaijani generals and admirals in foreign militaries, as well as serving under the Russian flag until 1917. But for now we should start implementing the plan about former ministers of defense and chiefs of staff.
In the list above, I didn't specify the Chief of Staff of ADR Army: Lt.-General Mamedbek Sulkevich (1865-1920) Chief of General Staff of ADR from March 1919 until 10 Dec 1919; executed on 15 July 1920. Also, Maj-Gen. Abdulhamid bey Sharifbey oglu Gaitabashi (1889-1920, Chief of General Staff from 10 Dec 1919, executed in 1920. Also, the very first Minister of Defense of ADR was General-Gubernator Dr. Khosrov bey Pasha bey oglu Sultanov (1879-1941). But once the ministry was formalized (I think it was officially established either in the end of 1918 or in 1919), Gen. Mehmandarov was appointed as the Minister, and Gen. Shikhlinsky as his Deputy Minister. --AdilBaguirov 07:09, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
I added a section called History of Azerbaijan Army, everybody feel free to add info, but this should not be the largest section of the article. We can create a separate entry on Azerbiajni army in 1918. Grandmaster 09:41, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

I am making a few corrections and clarifications on Ministry of Defense leadership in 1991-1995.

[edit] Size

The article seems to be a bit longish, may be some info should be merged to Azerbaijan Army. I once tried to do that, but the article became as it is again :) --Brand спойт 18:41, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

I think the article is really good and has a lot of valuable information. Most of the military articles here are not overly helpful in the information department and only have a bunch of statistics. I think we should encourage more military articles written like this.

yeah I agree its a nice article, with good and interesting facts, 5/5 for the article.

[edit] Comparison

Although it would seem obvious, I'm still not sure. Which is stronger: Armenia or Azerbaijan? I would imagine it would be the Azeris because they have more than twice the number of active troops, and more than five times the budget, but I'm still not sure.

Azerbaijan lost the first war but if we look at the situation right now, its definitly Azerbaijan who is more superior. They got a major budget for such a small country, professional training programm according to NATO standards and they got like twice the number of troops. And besides according to experts Azerbaijan is gonna get like hundreds of billions of $$$ in profit from energy. And since they are surrounded by axis of evil states like Iran & Russia and not to mention they are still at war with Armenia they will definitly keep on increasing their budget and military. So I would put my money on Azerbaijan aswell.
Im not Azerbaijani but Im pretty sure they are stronger, its actually pretty obvious Azerbaijan is more capable and combat ready then Armenia. But anyways no disrespect but the reality is that both Armenia and Azerbaijan are nothing compared to the States. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 145.83.1.6 (talk) 13:21, 19 March 2007 (UTC).
Azerbaijan is stronger, its actually pretty simple just look at the army sizes and budgets and you get the idea. Anyways my money is on Azerbaijan. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 77.160.41.181 (talk) 16:40, 8 April 2007 (UTC).

No competition here guys, if it wasnt for Russia then Azerbaijan would have taken its territories from Armenia back a long time ago. But damn Russia, thats the only way they can perceive their power in the east bloc; by making other nations fight and create conflict, typical Russia.

[edit] Interior Guard

Can somebody please ad the Interior Guard in the branches list, I dont have a clue how to do this. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 145.83.1.6 (talk) 12:24, 26 March 2007 (UTC).

[edit] MIG 29

According to several news sources they confirm that Azerbaijan Air Force DOES have a MIG-29's. See the two weblinks below for evidence, somebody needs to update this article: http://en.apa.az/news.php?id=23434 http://today.az/news/politics/38475.html —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 145.83.1.6 (talk) 10:14, 29 March 2007 (UTC).

Here is another source: http://www.bakutoday.net/view.php?d=35555 I think Azerbaijan jsut made the MIG-29 their standard aircraft, pretty decent plane like the F-16.

Hello,

I have read on one of the links at the bottom that Azerbaijan bought just 28 MiG-29 jets, not 48. Can this be confirmed plz? I also have pictures from Azeri special forces and their T-72 tanks dig in. Where can I upload them all? Mail me at soner.gulal@sg-produkties.nl with your reply to me.

Thanks a lot.

Gr. Soner

28 MIGs you say? Well I do know that the real number is kept secret and all but it is confirmed that Azerbaijan has bought 2 squadrons thats 48 MIGs. By the way you can upload pictures here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Upload

good luck

[edit] Military industry

http://en.apa.az/news.php?id=26398 and http://en.apa.az/news.php?id=26398 these show that Azerbaijan has or is about to establish its own military industry. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 145.83.1.6 (talk) 08:31, 11 May 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Date of foundation

According to this news source, the exact date of the foundation of modern Azerbaijani military was on 9 october 1991. The date of the foundation of the 20th century Azerbaijani military was 26 june 1918, please update this in the article. And another thing according to the same article, the military budget for 2007 is 1,1 billion not 900 million.

http://en.apa.az/news.php?id=29342

[edit] Military Budget 2007

According to apa.az which refered to Azerbaijan Defense Ministry, the military budget of Azerbaijan is AZN 1.3 billion now. Thats about 1.5 USD billion. Baku87 16:13, 30 November 2007 (UTC)