Talk:Military history of Uganda

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

	Africa Portal This article is within the scope of the WikiProject Africa, which collaborates on articles related to Africa in Wikipedia. To participate, you can edit this article or visit the project page for more details.
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the quality scale.
???	This article has not yet received a rating on the importance scale.
	This article is supported by WikiProject Uganda. See also the Uganda WikiPortal.
Assessment comments This article has not been rated for quality and/or importance yet. Please rate the article and then leave comments here to explain the ratings and/or to identify the strengths and weaknesses of the article.

	This article is within the scope of the Military history WikiProject. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the project and see lists of open tasks and regional and topical task forces. To use this banner, please see the full instructions.
Start	This article has been rated as Start-Class on the quality scale.
Additional information and associated task forces: This article has been checked against the following criteria for B-Class status: Referencing and citation: criterion not met Coverage and accuracy: criterion met Structure: criterion met Grammar: criterion not met Supporting materials: criterion met Associated task forces (nations and regions): African military history task force

A fact from Military history of Uganda appeared on Wikipedia's Main Page in the Did you know? column on 7 November 2007.

Contents 1 fair use image 2 Cold War and sectioning 3 revert 4 image search FYI

[edit] fair use image

Note that Image:Amin takes oath.jpg has a fair use rationale for Idi Amin Dada only. Unless a detailed rationale is provided for its usage on this article, it will be removed. - BanyanTree 10:38, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Also Image:MuseveniInauguration.jpg, now that I take a look, as any other fair use images I have not glanced at. - BanyanTree 11:14, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

I used the Image:Amin takes oath.jpg because if you would read it is next to the subject about the 1972 Ugandan Coup which is how Amin came to power. I could not find any other image that is related to the coup and their is a real lack of pictures in this article. The same could be said about Image:MuseveniInauguration.jpg. Besides I started this articel so I think I know what I'm doing. - RedNeckIQ55 1:53, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for starting the article! Note the fair use rationale at Image:Amin takes oath.jpg#Rationale of fair use for Idi Amin. A similar section must be added for each article in which the image appears, per Wikipedia:Non-free use rationale guideline. I don't feel that the two images I mention are particularly vital towards understanding the subject so will not write them myself, but you are welcome to. If not, I'll just remove the images from the article in a few days. - BanyanTree 22:13, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

I've removed them because: fair use images should be used sparingly, there are already quite a few free images in this article (so the common fair use rationale that the article needs a depicting illustration i null), and it is not really essential to illustrate every section of this article with a picture. RedNeckIQ55, thanks for starting this well written Uganda article. --Ezeu 20:34, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cold War and sectioning

I would prefer a section, or at least a consistent narrative in the main body, about the role of the Cold War in conflict formation. The current citation is to an item entitled "Internet in post Cold War Africa", which basically states that the Cold War affected how people thought about things, which is true for basically everything everywhere. Speaking off the top of my head, this sounds less true for Uganda than many other African countries. Unlike the DRC or Somalia-Ethiopia there was no "Cold War conflict" in Uganda, in the sense of a war that wouldn't have happened in the absence of the Cold War. I consider the colonialism argument to be so self-evident that it doesn't even need a citation.

Also, I've been writing the article on the format of History of Uganda, e.g. by era and presidency, which appears to be a logical way of going about it. I will thus, unless someone has an argument on why not, be moving around existing sections. For example, Hostilities with Israel basically details some oddities of Amin and should not be a top-level section. - BanyanTree 19:29, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] revert

This revert by RedNeckIQ55 has gotten rid of several hours worth of writing and re-introduced a fair use image without a rationale. It has also given me an edit conflict after I spent another couple hours finishing off the section on Amin's years. I'll wait about 30 minutes for an explanation before I revert and save the version on which I'm currently edit conflicted. - BanyanTree 07:11, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

I waited. I reverted. I expanded the article. - BanyanTree 07:46, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] image search FYI

While scanning for images on the USAID site, I found Image:Military escort for WFP convoy in Uganda.jpg, which I've uploaded, and which has a potential crop that would make for a great addition to this article. The USAID site allows requests for high resolution copies of the images, but the request form specifies that "non-commercial" and "non distribution" are required. This seems silly, given that USAID work, like all US federal images, is automatically put in the public domain. I've sent an email to the person supposedly handling the USAID photo gallery asking them to clarify the copyright of the images. (Using less blunt language that I use here of course.) I thoroughly expect to be ignored, but there's diminishingly small chance that the response will be "Oops, sorry - take all the high-resolution images you want." Some of the images I've recently downloaded into commons:Category:Uganda are relevant here, but I'll keep my fingers crossed for a positive response from USAID. - BanyanTree 03:26, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

BanyanTree, is there any better res copy of that pic? That group looks more like a rabble than an army, or is that the state of the UPDF? Cheers Buckshot06 04:59, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

LOL, literally. A rabble! <wipes away tears of laughter> Yes, I suppose they do. There are also various government-supplied militias and the Home Guard, but that vehicle with mounted weapons is almost certainly UPDF, which probably implies that that is a UPDF unit in a flatbed truck modified with two rows of benches in the middle where soldiers sit facing outward, so they can scan the surrounding countryside and go over the side to deploy in case of an ambush by the LRA. For a more detailed photo of what UPDF soldiers deployed to guard the 'protected villages' look like, see Image:Soldiers in Labuje IDP market.jpg. Most UPDF deployed to villages in the north live in small thatched roof mud-and-wattle huts that are indistinguishable from the local population, which doesn't lend itself to spic-and-span presentation.When Operation Iron Fist started in 2002, the residents of Gulu were astonished to see tanks, recently brought back from the DRC, rolling through town, as they had never realized that the military even had that sort of firepower.

As for an better copy, that's what I'm trying to get. I could simply lie to USAID in the request for about where I want to use the image, but I'd rather just question the non-public domain-friendly requirements they put up to access the high-res versions of their presumably public domain images. Still chuckling, BanyanTree 05:44, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

How are you on tank recognition? I'd really be interested to see which types and numbers of tanks were operational. Are there any pictures? And also, where do Ugandan tanks get into the DRC? which roads? Buckshot06 06:15, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

I'm simply horrible at recognizing heavy equipment; tanks and aircraft are almost entirely irrelevant for the vast majority of African conflicts that I find interesting, though the Sudanese air force's use of cargo planes to drop homemade cluster bombs on Darfuri villages is unexpectedly innovative and effective. I'm sure someone has taken pictures of Ugandan tanks, but I don't know of any free pictures. I know for certain that many units transited through Arua District, which has road access east into Ituri Province. Note also how the northern road network in Image:Congo Democratic Republic Map.jpg corresponds to the territory held by Uganda in Image:DRC group 3part.jpg, as well as how logical it was that the Uganda-Rwanda battles during the Second Congo War took place at Kisangani. It looks like Pakwach also has road access east, but I don't recall it being mentioned in relation to the war. Perhaps that road link only exists on maps. - BanyanTree 07:11, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Update, it appears that the vehicle I couldn't identify above is a Mamba APC, based of its similarity in .army-guide.com/eng/product.php?prodID=1134 these photos, which Uganda People's Defence Force doesn't even list as UPDF equipment. Here are a couple images of tanks in Operation Iron Fist in 2002, while here is a report by Human Rights Watch stating "the UPDF used tanks and heavy weapons to assault the governor’s residence" in the Ituri conflict. Here's a copy of a Monitor report on military movements back in 2005. Hmmm... there's a lot more info than I expected on this. I may have to learn how to recognize tanks. - BanyanTree 11:23, 15 November 2007 (UTC)

Just an update, both of the contact emails given for USAID have turned out to be nonfunctioning, which is either an example of typical bureaucracy or an ingenious plan to avoid explaining how they can put restrictions on public domain images. Not quite sure what to do next... - BanyanTree 23:20, 27 November 2007 (UTC)