Talk:Mike Thackwell

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Mike Thackwell was not the youngest driver to contest a Formula 1 race and I have explained adequately why in the article.

That actually seems quite logical - the only problem is that I suspect most reliable sources still refer to him as the youngest. I suppose you could still say he was the youngest to start a Grand Prix, even if the GP he started were then struck from the records. Does anyone have a good source to support this one way or the other. Cheers. 4u1e 15:16, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
There are problems with this... Thackwell competed in the Grand Prix because he was entered, took part in qualifying and qualified for the race. The fact that the first start may or may not have been struck from the records as if it never happened, which in itself is debatable, is irrelevant. Bretonbanquet 19:30, 17 June 2007 (UTC)
You are confusing taking part in the Grand Prix weekend with actually racing in the Grand Prix itself. Being entered to compete in a Formula 1 race, taking part in qualifying and actually qualifying for the race are very different from taking part in the race. As I stated, the race only took place after the first lap was aborted. Thackwell then did not take part in the actual race. Therefore he can not start it. This is completely true and not in any way irrelevant.
My only complaint would be that when he started the race, it was an official race - so he did actually start a Grand Prix, which was subsequently annulled. Anyway, ignoring my view, which isn't something we can reference, I googled Thackwell and two of the first three biographies I looked at(www.f1rejects.com and www.forix.com) mentioned the question of whether he officially started the race or not. I think we should represent both points of view here, which is pretty much what the current version does, although the current wording is a bit argumentative and should be neutralised. The other problem is referencing the 'DNS' for Thackwell, because www.formula1.com (the closest thing there is online to official results that far back) gives him as RET, not DNS. I suspect that is wrong, because they have done the same for Niki Lauda at the 1977 German Grand Prix, for which iirc he famously does not appear in the results. 4u1e 17:48, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
I've reverted the result in the table to "Ret". We must be consistent across the driver articles on this question, and until we get a concensus, we should retain consistency. Bretonbanquet 19:56, 20 June 2007 (UTC)
4u1e's comment that when he did start the race it was an official race is not correct. The race that took place, the 1980 Grand Prix of Canada did not include Mike Thackwell. There was not too official races here, only one and that was the one after the race was stopped. As for his retirement versus did not start, I think this is quite simple. In the initial race, Thackwell retired, no question about that. However, those results were annulled and therefore can not be taken as the official results. The actual Grand Prix was after the second start and those are the statistics which should be used. Therefore, Mike Thackwell should be listed as not starting the 1980 Grand Prix of Canada. 86.157.213.118 16:03, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
You misunderstand me. When he started the race it was the official race, unless we are to believe that the race organisers knew in advance that the first start would be cancelled. So he did start an official race - it's a perfectly logical position. Nonetheless, I understand completely the point you are making, and it is probably correct. But (and it's a big but) we need to reference the change - unfortunately the official results (at www.formula1.com) differ from the edits you are making. Have you got a hardcopy or online reference which gives Thackwell (and Watson) as DNS for that race? 4u1e 1 July 2007, 16:23
Most reliable sources state that he retired, and that's what wikipedia works on. The theory User:86.157.213.118 explains is simple, no problem with that, but it's not necessarily the one most sources agree with. I can provide any number of sources that say he started the race. This needs a proper concensus across the many affected articles, before we go around changing results. A good example of this problem is highlighted in Niki Lauda's accident in the 1976 German Grand Prix. If the race he was injured in never officially existed, then how did he get injured? It wasn't in practice or qualifying, it was in the race - the first race, which undeniably happened. My opinion is that to state a DNS is very misleading, and we can clarify these things more satisfactorily. Bretonbanquet 16:27, 1 July 2007 (UTC)
I've started a discussion at WP:F1. DH85868993 08:25, 2 July 2007 (UTC)
The page currently has far too much detail about red flagged starts and not enough about Mike Thackwell. -- Ian Dalziel 18:20, 28 July 2007 (UTC)
Probably because it was one of, if not the biggest moment of his Formula 1 career. This is quite possibly the aspect that Thackwell is known most for and it should be explained thoroughly. Which has been done. I am not saying the rest of his career was irrelevant, only that this was very important. I think it best that people understand the entire situation. Dale-DCX
I agree with Ian Dalziel here -- there's too much emphasis on trivia that's only of interest to stats freaks - perhaps this should be a footnote. The key thing is to point out that Mike was a very fast young driver who got into F1 at the wrong time. Pete Fenelon 15:18, 19 August 2007 (UTC)