Talk:Midway Atoll

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[edit] Climate

What is the climate of the Midway Islands? Given that it is located around 28 degrees N, I wouldn't be surprised if it were similar to a Mediterranean climate, like that of northern Baja California. I know it gets heavy winter rains, but I'm assuming the summers would be dry/rainless. Anybody know if there are detailed climate stats out there? And if so, can we add them to the Geography section?207.216.49.234 20:50, 25 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Name

Midway Atoll does seem to be the official name of the place, so good move. However, the three islands are called islands in most places, including the US F&W page and the CIA factbook, every historical reference I've ever seen to the Battle of Midway also calls them islands. "Islets" may be technically correct, but it's not used here. In addition, you need to distinguish between Sand Islet and Sand Island. By renaming them all to islets, you just eliminated one of them! Basically, you can't go around renaming islands to islets because you think they're too small. ;-) Daniel Quinlan 06:23, Aug 3, 2003 (UTC)

Yes, I am well aware of the problem, which is why I left them without "islet" or "Island" (..three islets: Eastern, Sand,...). But you are right. It is a detail of geography that creates difficulty no matter which way one goes, and certainly these atoll islets (especially if habitable) are called islands most everywhere.Marshman 17:35, 3 Aug 2003 (UTC)

This kind of geographic naming problem is actually pretty frequent; one of the "value-adds" of Wikipedia is that we can have alternate forms and explain relative frequency, historical usages, etc. Even academic works will get these wrong sometimes, because their "authoritative" sources often pick one name and present it as the only choice. Pacific islands have had an especial lot of name changes. Stan 18:03, 3 Aug 2003 (UTC)
That "Sand Islet" shown on maps close inside the northern edge of the fringing reef seems to be a phantom island. Detailed satellite imagery IKONOS satellite imagery (can be accessed through Wikimapia show nothing but shallow water around there, not even drying coral heads.--Ratzer (talk) 09:18, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

The whole "islet" / "island" thing results in some strange conflicts. Under Hawaiian Islands someone had stated that there are 137 islands in the archipelago. That may be true if every sandbar and offshore rock are counted. But the question "How many islands are there in the Hawaiian Islands?" seems likely NOT to want this answer, but one that results in the reasonable answer of 18. Still, greater problems arise by trying to officially rename all of those other features "islets" Marshman 19:09, 3 Aug 2003 (UTC)

there is a left-over repitition about the battle...

I'm confused by the recent page history - hasn't this been "Midway Atoll" for quite some time?? Stan 17:33, 15 Apr 2004 (UTC)

Yes. A recently new editor (since Feb 2004) came in and (I thought) moved the page to Midway Islands (least correct of the three "choices") without giving any regard to the history or redirects. I do not see where in the history the move (or my move back) is reflected. Maybe I just changed the text? I thought I renamed the page from Midway Islands to Midway Atoll? Could look at the deletion log?
Presently, all the articles using "Midway Islands" relate to naval vessels, I suspect within their history sections, and the place was (I believe) called Midway Islands in at least some Naval circles during WW II. I looked at some of those articles and they are long, making it very difficult to spot where the Midway Islands link is. - Marshman 03:07, 16 Apr 2004 (UTC)
I think this editor renamed it according to how it appears in the footer. Not sure where that came from, maybe CIA factbook or something. Though I see that the footer has since been updated to reflect the current title.Bkonrad | Talk 03:16, 16 Apr 2004 (UTC)
I redid the footers. Same editor set those up, I think - Marshman
I checked the deletion log, and it appears that I did delete "Midway Atoll" on April 15. Possibly I was looking at some older version? Not sure how I could have both deleted the page and renamed it without impacting the text? I went through the normal process of deleting "Midway Atoll" which was (I saw) a Redirect, and then renaming Midway Islands to Midway Atoll. Would this normally be lost in the page history somehow? - Marshman 03:24, 16 Apr 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Midway Islands

There seems to be confusion about the naming of this page. All authoritative sources use "Midway Islands": cf. U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service, Encyclopædia Britannica, Dictionary.com, CIA - The World Factbook. The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service uses the complete phrase "Midway Atoll" only as a shortening of "Midway Atoll National Wildlife Refuge". Pædia 17:55, 2004 Jul 13 (UTC)

Well, the Office of Insular Affairs, who have executive authority, refer to it as Midway Atoll or simply Midway [1] [2]. I suspect that the name and usage began to change after the NWR was established. The usage is confusing. Even Encyclopedia Briatnnica say "the islands, near the western end of the Hawaiian archipelago, comprise a coral atoll" which could be parsed as meaning the atoll is inclusive of the islands. I don't really care that strongly one way or the other, and I really don't know that it makes that much of a difference. older≠wiser 20:57, 13 Jul 2004 (UTC)
From the OIA:
Political Status
Midway Atoll is owned and administered by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service (FWS) as established by Executive Order 13022 of 1996. Midway Atoll in the Pacific Ocean is a United States unorganized, unincorporated insular area administered by the U.S. Navy (Executive Order 199-A on January 20, 1903). The Secretary of the Navy designated the Commander in Chief of the Pacific Fleet (CINCPAC) to act as its administrative authority.
As a former resident of Midway, I would like to correct the statement above: Midway is ADMINISTERED by the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service. It is not OWNED by the FWS. It is OWNED by the taxpayers of the United States. Gedstrom (talk) 02:10, 25 April 2008 (UTC)
Midway Atoll was designated a Naval Defense Sea Area and Airspace Reserve by Executive Order 8682 on February 14, 1941. Naval Administrative control was confirmed by Executive Order 11048 dated September 4, 1962.

That seems pretty unequivocal in using Midway Atoll. older≠wiser 21:07, 13 Jul 2004 (UTC)

The OIA seems confused, by a third usage "Midway Island", and using "Wake Island" and "Wake Atoll" interchangeably, which I have also never seen used. What you are saying is that the OIA has authority to (re)name insular areas at will, which the CIA, FWS, and authoritative resources do not recognise? Pædia 21:32, 2004 Jul 13 (UTC)

I'm unclear why you state Midway Islands is used by "authoratative" sources without recognizing 1) people make mistakes and 2) many sources are old. The facts are: Midway is an atoll, and an atoll is a type of island. It has several islets as part of its gelogical/geographical structure (most atolls do) and these are (in common parlance) often referred to as islands (a confusing habit). Therefore, while one would not be incorrect in talking about Midway Island, or Midway islands, the proper name is Midway Atoll. All the primary sources you cite seem to be at least moving in that direction. That would seem to suggest, Wikipedia treat the name as it presently does: Midway Atoll with proper notation of variants and suitable redirects for the confused - Marshman 22:09, 13 Jul 2004 (UTC)
  1. Even Encyclopedia Britannica seems a bit confused and implies that the atoll includes the islands
  2. The FWS also appears to use the term atoll to include the islands
  3. The discussion above (before your post) shows the confusion is not localized to the OIA
  4. The OIA does in fact have executive authority and could conceivable rename it to whatever it wants and the statement Midway Atoll in the Pacific Ocean is a United States unorganized, unincorporated insular area administered by the U.S. Navy seems pretty unequivocal to me, even if it also later refers to the islands included in the atoll.
It seems that the facts of the matter are that the term "atoll" includes all of the islands and reefs that make up a particluar formation. Apparently many references only mention the islands, since that is what had been of primary interest, particularly for military use. Current interest in the area is at least as focussed on the offshore reefs as on the islands, so it makes sense to me to use the most inclusive term to describe the territory. older≠wiser 22:20, 13 Jul 2004 (UTC)
You are exactly right. The term atoll (a type of island) does include the reef(s) and exposed bits of land called (I think confusingly) "islands". I'm unimpressed by "authority" in the sense some agency can call it whatever it wants. Authority to me is demonstrated by knowledge not power and Wikipedia is certainly beyond considering the latter important. Of course, where disputes arise, Wikipedia has the requirement to present all sides - Marshman 22:34, 13 Jul 2004 (UTC)


In regards to the proper name of Midway, by tradition Midway has been called Midway Island practically since it's discovery and was "officially" changed to Midway Atoll after it was turned over by the Navy to the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service to be a National Wildlife Refuge and National Memorial. Although Midway Atoll is technically correct, to those of us that lived there prior to it's turnover to the USFWS it will always be Midway Island. - Midway Sailor 08:03, 6 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Game Reference?

I'm running a vote to see if people want to add an interesting tidbit about a reference to a game. In the game Ace Combat 5, the main protagonists are stationed on "Sand Island", a nice tropical place modeled after Midway, with the only change being a rather large island with a mountain in the north-east. The amazing thing is that every little detail, down to the tiny peninsula in the south of Sand Island to the runways, the reefs and even the dock is modeled exactly after Midway. So, shall we accept this tidbit? - RPharazon 01:26, 23 Jul 2005

No. What is amazing about it? Authors use real places for descriptions of "imaginary" ones all the time - Marshman 19:11, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
I've played all Ace Combat games, and the similarity is increadable. I think the team at Project Aces have taken the idea from this base, so I think it should be mentioned under Trivia. Pash Master (talk) 13:05, 17 March 2008 (UTC)
Trivia is not allowed on Wikipedia. I don't see why it needs to be mentioned here, either. If you want to mention it on Ace combat, why not mention it being on Microsoft_Flight_Simulator? Honestly I find it a pointless mention.Kyprosサマ (talk) 21:13, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Contradiction with Hawaiian Islands article

This article contradicts the Hawaiian Islands article. The Islands article says the Leeward Islands are part of the state of Hawaii -- including Midway. However this article says Midway is unincorporated territory. So which is correct? 23skidoo 20:37, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

Correct is that Midway Atoll is politically a separated Unorganized Unincorporated Territory, not a part of Hawaii. Geographically, however, Midway Atoll is a part of the Northwestern Hawaiian Islands.Ratzer 19:38, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
BTW I do not see where the Hawaiian Islands article states that Midway is part of the State of Hawaii. Midway is part of the Hawaiian Islands, yes, but this is a geographical term.Ratzer 19:40, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
As you note, Midway Atoll is not part of the State of Hawaii. Thus, I deleted the State of Hawaii template from this article and adjusted that template accordingly. Goeverywhere 02:50, 21 August 2007 (UTC)