Portal talk:Middle-earth

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This article is within the scope of WikiProject Middle-earth, which aims to build an encyclopedic guide to J. R. R. Tolkien, his legendarium, and related topics. Please visit the project talk page for suggestions and ideas on how you can improve this and other articles.
Note: Though it states in the Guide to writing better articles that generally fictional articles should be written in present tense, all Tolkien legendarium-related articles that cover in-universe material must be written in past tense. Please see Wikipedia:WikiProject Middle-earth/Standards for more information about this and other article standards.

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[edit] Map

[edit] Complete Middle-Earth Map Project

I will soon be starting work on creating a new, comprehensive, and high-resolution map of Middle-Earth, to be released under open copyrights and added in full to the Wikipedia servers for free use by all. I would love the help of any LOTR experts who would like to work on this project, most specifically commenting on the various parts of the map as they are created and criticising its following of LOTR canon, paying specific attention to accuracy when compared with the text. This map will be used as part of a larger project, in which the map will be comprehensively labelled with the movements of the main characters in the LOTR trilogy, to be a reading companion. If you are interested, please mention it on my talk page, and I will contact you when the project begins.

[edit] Current Maps

Where has the colour map come from that is regularly featured on the front page of the Portal? It is very pretty, but seems to me to be totally non-cannonical; what is the 'Sultanate of Raj'? Tolkien never drew the detailed map further south than Harad. If this is some sort of fan-RPG map then at least this should be stated on the page. —This unsigned comment was added by 170.252.64.1 (talk • contribs) .

I restored the previous map. As you noted, the one which was added recently contained numerous non-Tolkien details when zoomed in far enough to see them. It was also very likely a copyright violation. --CBDunkerson 13:47, 23 March 2006 (UTC)

I think that's for the best. Thanks. —This unsigned comment was added by 170.252.64.1 (talk • contribs) .

[edit] Wikicities notice

(header added later by Carcharoth 15:18, 17 April 2006 (UTC))

Maybe you real aficionados would like to transfer your attention to the Lord of the Rings Wiki, a flourishing Wikicity? Try a brief guided tour, maybe.

Why Wikicities? Its advantages include the ability to contain much material that is not truly encyclopaedic and to depart a little from the strict "NPOV" standards of Wikipedia.

Robin Patterson 06:33, 15 September 2005 (UTC)

[edit] TfD nomination of Template:Middle-earth portal

Template:Middle-earth portal has been nominated for deletion. You are invited to comment on the discussion at Wikipedia:Templates for deletion#Template:Middle-earth portal. Thank you. --Qirex 01:22, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

I assume this did not happen, so can't this section be removed from the talk page? --Bill W. Smith, Jr. 04:41, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Past/Present Tense

Rather than post in each article, I figure this is a good place to mention this: The present/past tense writing in the articles about the history of Middle Earth, etc. needs to be cleaned up. Rather than going and changing it, I though I'd bring up the topic for discussion. When discussing the plot of a book, it is customary to use the present tense. However, when discussing history, albeit of a fictional world, it might make more sense to use the past tense. Here, it poses a problem, because the information comes from a book. In any case, the current mix makes for awkward reading. Thoughts? yEvb0 19:41, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Generally I think that the past tense makes sense in this case. Alot of Tolkien's work is written in the past tense and it is ostensibly meant to be a mythical past of our own world. Also, consistently using the present tense when describing events meant to take place millenia apart would seem misleading. Thus I don't think this really fits the 'usual' practice for book plots... at that a good deal of the information on Middle-earth comes from texts which don't have a plot per se. --CBD _☎ ^✉ 23:46, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

It's written in past tense because it's from a first-person point of view of a character's memoirs or the like. Plus it's implied it's already happened as the viewer is hearing it. Not to mention the aeons they chronical (i.e. Silmarillion). Past tense certainly seems appropriate. Eluchil 12:58, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

re: use of present or past. Seems odd there should be an exception for one author. I have no opinion on it and was just following MoS for fiction as I went along proofing. There should be a discussion and vote, I guess. Is there a higher level of wiki editor-in-assistance-chief or something to rubber stamp such vote if passed? Tttom1 07:03, 29 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Redirects

I found it hard to find this page as there are no redirects from Portal:Middle earth, Portal:Middle Earth and Portal:Middle-Earth. Shouldn't those be redirected? Bryan 20:52, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

Done. --CBDunkerson 21:14, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

You could always go to the Middle-earth article (or any other major Middle-earth related article) and there should be a portal enterance there. ;) Ted87 03:34, 20 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Wikiquote link

I followed the Wikiquote link from the portal front page: q:Category:J._R._R._Tolkien. Then I browsed a couple of the quotes. Unfortunately, they seem a bit random, not well-referenced (all the Letters quotes, for example, should give the date the letter was written), and some are just wrong (for example, the last one in q:The_Silmarillion). Also, there is a collection of quotes from the Peter Jackson movies at q:The_Lord_of_the_Rings_(movies) - the collection of quotes is quite nice, but I cringed at seeing those quotes categorised under Tolkien, and hence under 'Literary works'!! :-) Wonder whether we should be worreid about the standards of places that are linked from this Portal, or not? Carcharoth 15:16, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

I agree, the movie section of quotes shouldn't be under the category of 'Literary works'. Also, I think there should be a uniform look for quotes — are there standards for the way they're presented? —Mir l e n 17:58, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Dunno - I'd like to add a lot of Tolkien quotes, but not right now! I just thought I'd point it out. Carcharoth 20:53, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] New Articles Announcement Page

As a member of WikiProject:Dance, I make good use of their New Articles announcement page and the New Articles section on the Wikiportal. What do you think about creating one for the Tolkien WikiProject? Editor at Large 21:06, 17 June 2006 (UTC)

Sounds like a good idea to me though I'm not sure if you mean the WikiProject page or the Portal page. I could see it being included on either. Would definitely help to keep track of newly created pages though. --CBD 11:12, 20 June 2006 (UTC)

I guess which page you put it on would depend on what page has enough room to place it in a convenient location. And I forgot to mention, it could also keep track of pages that have had major edits done recently. Editor at Large 03:16, 21 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Category name/scope

-William Allen Simpson 05:49, 3 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Copy righted maps

The source material used to create the maps used for middle earth is protected under copyright laws, most of the images, maps and other such material stored on commons has been listed for deletion at Commons:Template:Deletion_requests#Image:Middle_earth_map_showing_prominent_locations.PNG. Similar copyright problems exist with images stored at wikipedia. Gnangarra 09:51, 13 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Poems

One of the chief reasons I began to read Tolkien was because of the poetic content. Now, I most likely cannot reproduce whole the entire poems on wikipedia due to Copyright restrictions, but, could I provide an article, such as Poetry in Tolkien fiction, that lists and gives a brief synopsis of each poem, especially The Fall Of Gil-Galad, and others that have content that relates directly to the plot of any of the published works. Before you say anything, I am aware of the other Tolkien Poetry pages, but I think you can see where this one would be a little different from them. Comments? - KaoBear^(talk) 11:43, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Hi Kaobear. See List of poems by J. R. R. Tolkien. I think that's a good starting point for adding the kind of synopses you meantion. Right now it is just a list with little actual information about each entry. Also see Wikipedia:What is a featured list? for info on some good standards to follow when working on a 'list' page.

A deadly sword, a healing hand,
a back that bent beneath its load;
a trumpet-voice, a burning brand,
a weary pilgrim on the road.

I love that bit. --CBD 21:44, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the FYI's, will look into it and get some work done soon. - KaoBear^(talk) 21:59, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] spoiler tags

I know it has been brought up before, but, could we please start adding spoiler tags to the relevant pages? I have been a little more detailed in mine, adding the {{spoiler-about|The Silmarillion}} tag to just about all of the relevant pages, I haven't decided if I am going to add a similar tag for the Trilogy relevant articles, mostly because there are dozens of persons and places that are written about in The Silmarillion, Trilogy and various other works by Tolkien. Comments? - KaoBear^(talk) 12:56, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Agreed. I am doing a typo run on Middle-earth articles now, but will try to add them if they're missing. I prefer the detailed ones. -- Jordi·✆ 13:10, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

Personally, I'm not a fan of spoiler tags. If I didn't want to be 'spoiled' on a particular subject just about the last thing I would ever do would be to look up an encyclopedia article on it. However, that being said... I long since coded in javascript to make spoiler tags invisible to me so... by all means, have at it. --CBD 21:42, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

My personal preference is not to use them either, but if we're adding them somewhere, they should be added everywhere. And then as specific as possible. It is questionable that anyone who has not already read the LOTR would ever look up Lórien and not be spoiled, though. -- Jordi·✆ 21:43, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree with CBD; I also turned off the spoiler tags. To add to CBD's point, Wikipedia = Recent updated information 24/7 = News flash! a.k.a. spoilers. I think spoiler tags should be added at least 2-3 months within a new release, not on works that has been around for quite a while. Usually you can tell when the product was released — for books, you'd look at the copyright status. If you don't want to be spoiled by a product that was released years back, then don't look up an encyclopedia article on it. Simple. Yes, the product might've been new to you, but to majority of the people with a product that released back in years of yore, it's not news and so it shouldn't marked as spoilers. —Mir l e n 21:43, 21 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Books ABOUT Middle-Earth?

Is there a place for a listing of titles by authors other than JRRT about Middle Earth?

For instance, I have a copy of A Tolkien Bestiary

Title A Tolkien Bestiary
Author David Day
Publication New York: Ballantine Books, 1979. 287 p. : ill. (some col.) ; 28 cm.
Date 1979
ISBN 0345282833
LC Call Number PR6039.O32 Z63
Dewey 828/.9/1209
Source Library of Congress
link to this book on My LibraryThing

--Bill W. Smith, Jr. 04:46, 10 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Want images on this portal?

An amendment to the fair use policy on portals is now being discussed here: Wikipedia:Fair use/Amendment/Fair use images in portals --GunnarRene 22:32, 10 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Sam

Hi, on Sam's character information it says "date of death: Fourth Age". I think Sam didn't die but left Middle Earth across the Sea. Could anyone check this? Thanks --80.140.97.213 01:33, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Sam did leave Middle-earth and crossed the Sea... and then he died. --CBD 18:45, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, of course, thats why it calls "the undying lands", right? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 80.140.102.35 (talk) 22:30, 13 January 2007 (UTC). yup, sorry --80.140.102.35 01:00, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

They were called 'the undying lands' because the Elves and Ainur dwelt there. Mortals who went there did not stop being mortals. Tolkien wrote specifically and repeatedly that they would still die. --CBD 01:19, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

OK sorry, of course they stay mortal, but I think that only means they can leave the world after their death instead of being trapped in the Halls of Mandos like the elves. That does not mean that they in fact die ovee there. If I remember correctly that was the reason why Numenor tried to invade these lands. It's been some time since I last read the Silmarillion. I just think you should write the date of departure and not the date of death for we don't know if and when he died. I want it just the same way as it already is for Frodo, Gimli and Bilbo. --80.140.118.19 10:55, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

The story that they could achieve immortality was a lie told to the Numenoreans by Sauron. To quote Tolkien, "Frodo was sent or allowed to pass over Sea to heal him - if that could be done, before he died. He would have eventually to 'pass away': no mortal could, or can, abide for ever on earth, or within Time." Letters #246. You're right about the inconsistency of the various Wikipedia entries, but Sam's is probably the most 'correct' in that it can't be taken to imply that he lived on. --CBD 12:59, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] LOTR Wiki?

First of all, I'm new to LOTR, but I am obsessed. I'm trying to learn everything about Arda and Tolkien, and so this portal is pretty good for info. But... I would love to have a completely independant wiki, just for LOTR and Tolkien info. How can someone just up and create a new wiki? (Also, I'm not at all skilled with computers, so I probably couldn't create it on my own. Would it be rude to suggest that someone else create one? I bet it'd be an automatic hit with Tolkien nuts 'round the world!) Sorry to be a bother. 72.72.65.127 02:08, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Hello there :) Glad to see a new LotR fan, be careful though for it is very addicting. I had the same thoughts as yourself regarding an independent Lord of the Rings/Tolkien wiki a few years ago. Tolkien Gateway is what you're looking for. While Wikipedia does a fantastic job with the main Tolkien articles, Tolkien Gateway also focuses on a lot of the minor stuff that is just too minor to be listed on Wikipedia. There's also a few other Tolkien wikis out there but Tolkien Gateway is definitely the largest and most active. Hope to see you over there. --Hyarion 18:47, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

Thank you very much! I'll check it out later! (I'm so excited!) 72.72.65.127 19:37, 21 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Jarringly garish

WTF is up with the incongruous Inklings' portals? After cruising the rest of this wiki, the Middle-earth and Narnia portals are akin to being assaulted with projectile vomit. 81.179.123.16 08:51, 9 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Color scheme?

Seems to me the current color scheme is rather clashing, particularly those lavender boxes with the surrounding colors. Can we try something else? - Erusse estelinya 21:16, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

What do you suggest? Someone just changed it to these colors recently - it used to look like this... which the commentator in the section above yours apparently didn't care for either. --CBD 15:42, 25 September 2007 (UTC)

What about this? Simple, but at least more elegant, I think. But is the white background ok, or is it too bright in contrast to the dark background? Erusse estelinya (talk) 22:55, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Moved Selected Picture

I moved the Selected Picture up above "Selected Article" just because it makes the portal more visually appealing. You had to scroll down to see the picture before. Erusse estelinya (talk) 23:12, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Quenya on Wikipedia Incubator

I am asking everyone willing to participate in this project and having sufficient knowledge of Quenya to set the Quenya test on Wikipedia Incubator a bit further. (see [1], maybe there might once be a real Wikipedia in Quenya!) Mapar007 17:15, 4 June 2008 (UTC) And I'm afraid that I cant help too much myself because my Quenya knowledge is veeeeeery limited... Mapar007

Categories: Non-article Tolkien pages