Talk:Micropolitan areas by state

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Contents 1 Normal? 2 Normal problem 3 List is complete! 4 Ohio 5 Multi-city micropolitan areas 6 Discrepancies 7 A question on criteria

[edit] Normal?

I'm not sure Normal, Illinois qualifies as a micropolitan area. Most micropolitan areas consist of one or more core cities of population ranging between 10,000 and 50,000, along with the county or counties in which the core cities are located. Because Normal is located in the same county as Bloomington, Illinois, I believe it's part of the Bloomington metropolitan area... not a separate micropolis. -- SwissCelt 04:22, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Normal problem

Normal is still considered a micropolitan area because the initial city is less than 50,000 people. It can still be part of a metropolitan area and still be considered a micropolis. The largest micropolitan area in the US has an initial population of around 40,000, but the surrounding areas around the city has about 270,000 people in it. It is both a micro- and metropolitan area. I think it is somewhere in Pennsylvannia. Tigerghost

It can, but only if it's located in another county from the metropolis. Normal and Bloomington are both in McLean County, Illinois. Officially, then, Normal is part of the Bloomington-Normal Metropolitan Statistical Area, consisting solely of McLean County.[1] The Census Bureau maintains a complete list of micropolitan areas at http://www.census.gov/population/estimates/metro-city/List5.txt . -- SwissCelt 18:44, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

But then why was Belleville, Alton, and Pekin deleted from Illinois, they all reside in separate counties than their major cities???

They're not on the list maintained by the Census Bureau (see http://www.census.gov/population/estimates/metro-city/List5.txt ). Alton isn't a micropolis, because Madison County is counted by the Census Bureau as part of the St. Louis MSA. Same goes for St. Clair County, which is why Belleville isn't counted. As for Pekin, the Census Bureau counts Tazewell County as part of the Peoria MSA.

The official definition is problematic, to say the least. I'm not that familiar with Illinois geography, but it seems to me (and this is just my personal opinion here) that Pekin/Tazewell County at the very least would qualify as a micropolis. Micropolitan areas that are consolidated with MSA's are generally seperated from the metropolitan core by non-urban areas; I believe this is the case with the distance between Pekin and Peoria, yes? Alton and Belleville may be contiguous to St. Louis via urbanized areas. But then again, they may not be: Marysville, Ohio is not contiguous to Columbus via urbanized areas, and yet Marysville is not considered a micropolis but an integral part of the Columbus MSA.

I dunno, man. The way in which the Census Bureau has measured these demographic areas has always been suspect, favoring some areas in one census then radically changing the definition for the next. But because this isn't the place for original research, we must stick with the Census Bureau's findings, however convoluted they may seem to you and me. -- SwissCelt 05:18, 4 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] List is complete!

... but I'm having some problem getting the endnotes to work correctly. If anyone has any idea how to make it work, or has a better idea of how to indicate multi-state micropolitan areas, please help! -- Tony 18:15, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Ohio

First things first: Great job, Tony, in completing the list!! You deserve kudos from us all for putting in so much effort.

I do need to point out a couple of things about Ohio, though: First of all, while Washington Court House was known officially as "Washington" until 2002, it has been commonly referred to by what is now its official name (Washington Court House) for many years; at least as long as I've been alive. It is also commonly abbreviated on maps, etc. as "Washington C.H.", which may be a good way to abbreviate it on our list. Alternatively, the city should be written as "Washington Court House", as "Washington" is now neither the official nor the commonly used name for that city.

Secondly, Fostoria, with a population of 13,391, is a core city of a Micropolitan Statistical Area. The problem is ascertaining which one. Fostoria is on the border of two micropolitan statistical areas: Findlay, and Fremont. Together, the two Micropolitan Statistical Areas constitute a Consolidated Statistical Area [CSA]; this may be the only CSA consisting solely of micropolitan areas, and Fostoria has much to do with why the two micropolitan areas are combined. I think Fostoria is officially listed with Findlay, but I'm not sure of this. -- SwissCelt 22:28, 16 December 2005 (UTC)

I noticed the Washington vs. Washington Court House situation as I was adding the Ohio micropolitan areas, and I went with the name that the USCB used. I'm not particularly attached to either one.

As for Fostoria, according to this PDF map, it is part of the Tiffin Micropolitan Statistical Area, which it cites as the Tiffin-Fostoria M.S.A. I'll make that change now. -- Tony 17:02, 17 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Multi-city micropolitan areas

I'm going through this list and adding the category tag to the rest of the micropolitan areas. (Ohio and Alabama were already done.) Question: When there are two cities joined to create a micropolitan area, should I put the tag on both cities? I'm leaving the tags off until I get someone else's opinion. --Jbjalbrz

I'd say put it on both. In many of these multi-city areas, it's difficult to determine which is the "main" core city (for example, see discussion of Findlay and Tiffin-Fostoria above), and there's no reason not to include a multi-city simply because of indecision over which gets the tag. -- SwissCelt 02:19, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Discrepancies

It would probably be a good idea to check the list of micropolitan areas at http://www.census.gov/population/estimates/metro_general/List1.txt against the list at http://www.census.gov/population/estimates/metro_general/List5.txt. It appears the latter is missing quite a few. I came across this when I was working on Idaho micropolitan areas. It struck me as a bit odd that Mountain Home was originally listed here, but the considerably larger communities of Idaho Falls and Pocatello were not. I took care of that.

I think it also makes sense to list the micropolitan areas along with the counties they encompass, and group them in the state where the principal city is located. See what I did for Idaho as an example. --Faustus37 19:19, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Wouldn't Idaho Falls and Pocatello be the cores of metropolitan areas, instead of micropolitan areas? I note their populations are each greater than 50,000. -- SwissCelt 20:53, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

Ack, I seriously read that wrong. Will go to fix. --Faustus37 23:03, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] A question on criteria

The article says micropolitan areas are defined as those that surround "a core city with population between 10,000 and 49,999". How strictly is that applied? I notice Fairbanks, Alaska is on the Census Bureau list as a metropolitan area, despite having core city population the same as Juneau, ca. 30,000, while two of the micropolitan areas given for the state, Ketchikan, Alaska and Kodiak, Alaska, don't make the lower bound so in theory shouldn't be there. (And they're not even the largest towns in the state under 10,000, either.) New Math? Zero Gravitas (話す • 投稿) 09:16, 20 February 2006 (UTC)

Not new math, government math. ;-) I gave up trying to determine rhyme or reason for the Census Bureau's demographic calculations back when the concept of the metropolitan area was first applied. At that time, they had no trouble consolidating San Francisco with Oakland and San Jose in a CMSA, but it was a decade before Cleveland was consolidated with Akron, and Youngstown still isn't consolidated (and, given its declining population, probably never will). In essence, the criteria seem to deviate by state. -- SwissCelt 15:25, 20 February 2006 (UTC)