Talk:Mickey Mouse

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[edit] Mickey inspired by blackface?

I remember hearing something way back in the day about Mickey Mouse have been originally based on blackface performers. I don't remember any of the old cartoons well enough to know, but if someone can add some encyclopedic information on this to the article, it would be nice. Tokerboy

That's what Wikipedia says at Bosko. -- Error 02:15, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Speaking of Bosko, in the short "Hold Anything", a bunch of Mickey lookalikes appear dancing (and one of them literally loses his head). —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 71.52.188.239 (talk) 05:23, 9 February 2007 (UTC).

[edit] How about Mickey in "blackface" in "Uncle Tom's Cabin" -- or, "The Meller Drammer" (1933)?

Important because it's a good example of the racism of Disney Studios. deeceevoice 01:59, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC)

What? Still no taste for this subject among diehard Mickey Mouse fans?

  • The United Artists 1933 release "The Meller Drammer" -- the name a corruption of "melodrama" thought to harken back to the earliest minstrel shows -- was a film short based on Harriet Beecher Stowe's Uncle Tom's Cabin. Mickey, of course, was already black; but for this role he was depicted with exaggerated, orange lips; bushy, white sidewhiskers; and, of course, his now trademark white gloves. Animation utilizing darky iconography aired on U.S. television as late as the mid 1990s, but rarely has appeared since. From blackface deeceevoice 10:27, 7 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Here's a quote to support this notion, taken from Sacks, Howard L, and Sacks Judith (1993). Way up North in Dixie: A Black Family's Claim to the Confederate Anthem. Washington: Smithsonian Institution Press, p. 158: "Mickey Mouse is the most graphic offspring of blackface minstrels' portrayals of the plantation slave. Black, wild-eyed, childlike, falsetto-voiced, and ever the clown, Mickey Mouse even takes his costuming from the burnt-cork brotherhood: see the oversized white gloves, the suspender buttons (minus suspenders), big feet, coy stance." —Amcaja 16:05, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

I don't know that Disney is notable for a pattern of racism, but the debt that the old black-and-white cartoons owe to minstrelling seems like important context. I support the inclusion of this information, possibly in a separate article detailing the relationship of cartoon archetypes to the blackface tradition, with Mickey in the vanguard. Pjrich 20:51, 31 January 2006 (UTC)

I'm going to try to add a section on this. (67.171.68.37 03:08, 12 February 2007 (UTC))

[edit] DVD release of MM's short films?

Is there some list that shows the DVD releases of all of Mickey Mouse's short films since 1928? Siyavash 14:54, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, it's called Vintage Mickey Ryan Holloway 15:12, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] was walt disney the original creator of mickey mouse!

personaly i think so and it breaks my heart to hear people say that its not true because i have always had a fantacy of me and walt being together and mickey mouse instructing our every move becuase he is fully dedicATED to his creator!

- On the Hallmark documentaries it says that Walt came up with the character on a train (as is mentioned below, as I think the film is now shown at MGM studios); but on a channel 4 documentary (The Secrety Life Of Walt Disney) I also heard that he (several years down the line) knew he was going to be asked to draw and sign the mouse, so Walt asked someone else for a crashcourse in drawing Mickey

TimothyJacobson 21:53, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Origin...?

On a trip to Disneyworld we went to a pavilion about Mickey Mouse, and it explicitly told the story of the invention of Mickey Mouse: a train ride with his wife, drawing a mouse (just before he learned that he'd lost the rights to the lucky rabbit or something like that) and calling it Mortimer. His wife said that it was too pompous and said that he should call him Mickey. I didn't hear anything about the name "Moty." Can someone back me up on this, or is my memory fuzzier than I thought? BlueStarz 06:59, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

The only reference to "Moty" with regard to Mickey Mouse that I have ever seen is on Mickey's Wikipedia article page! Lillian Disney confirmed to me, back in the early 1990's, that the naming on the train story was "pretty much" true. The Mickey Rooney version of events seems very unoffical indeed, for example it is not mentioned under Mickey Rooney's entry in "The Disney A to Z - The Official Updated Encycolpedia" by Dave Smith, which is published by Disney's own publishing house, Hyperion. User: ukchris 06:05, 6 November 2006 (GMT)

"'Mortimer' had been Walt Disney's original name for Mickey before his wife Lillian convinced him to change it" - this statement appears in Mortimer Mouse - assuming it's true, isn't it worthy of mention in this article? Gr8white 06:35, 28 December 2006 (UTC)

- I remember a couple of cartoon characters called Morty and Ferdy appearing in Mickey Mouse annuals in my childhood; I think they were Mickey's brother's children, and I always assumed that Morty was a nod to Mickey's own original name TimothyJacobson 21:53, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] error in article

The article currently says: "When Disney asked oprah winphrey for a larger budget for his popular Oswald series, Mintz announced he had hired the bulk of Disney's staff but that Disney could keep doing the Oswald series as long as he agreed to a budget cut and went on the payroll." I have no idea why it says oprah winfrey but thought I should mention it here. I'd fix it but don't know what it should say instead, I'm assuming Mintz?

Homa24 20:16, 12 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Mickey Mouse in politics

I've expanded Mickey_Mouse_clone_and_Hamas. A section on the use of Mickey Mouse in politics, e.g. in WWII allied propaganda, should be added, as they did in Wartime_Donald. Contemporary political (mis)uses like the Hamas issue would fit in there. Goebbels and Hitler were avid Mickey Mouse fans and had the allied embargo broken to enable private screenings for themselves, as officially Disney comics were deemed to be "degenerate". You'd have to research that.

Here's a World War II Poster and extensive info: Disney and World War II, "How Mickey Mouse and Donald Duck supported the U.S. and its Allies." --tickle me 01:59, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] The Complete Maus (Art Speigelman)

I was surprised that there is not a reference to the Nazi Paper quoation detalied on page 164 in the Book "Maus" by Art Speigelman.

To paraphrase the quote from the book:-"Mickey Mouse is the most miserable ideal ever revealed..." —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Jasey boy (talk • contribs) 15:21, 10 May 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Ub Iwerks

JDawg32 keeps removing Ub Iwerks from the article, and I am getting sick of restoring it after every time. One since the quote is a book quote, can some one verify that Ub Iwerks is one of the creators. And what can we do? BeckyAnne(talk) 13:54, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

Have you taken it to dispute resolution? I put Ub back in as creator, since that reference does back that fact up. I left Plane Crazy in as MM's first appearance - I'll leave that up to other editors to decide whether that or Steamboat Willy was his first appearance. It does seem clear that Disney considers SW to be MM's first official appearance. Derumi 20:27, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
No s/he just started a few days ago. BeckyAnne(talk) 21:40, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

If I may point out the fact that Walt Disney created, and did the very first drawing of, Mickey Mouse on a train a little while after all of the Oswald stuff went down. Ub Iwerks was the artist who first drew Mickey for publication (because Walt was never a very gifted artist). So, Ub Iwerks is not the creator, but, since he first drew the Mouse for publication, it could be said that he had a hand in his creation, or was one of the creators. But not THE creator. Xerotheory142 19:04, 30 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] drawn together appearence

mickey appeared on drawn together howcome that is not on the list of cartoons

Because it was a parody; it wasn't the "real" Mickey. FiggyBee 08:22, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Farfour is now dead

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull&cid=1183053066461

Hamas TV on Friday broadcast what it said was the last episode of a weekly children's show featuring "Farfour," a Mickey Mouse look-alike who had made worldwide headlines for preaching Islamic domination and armed struggle to youngsters.

In the final skit, Farfour was beaten to death by an actor posing as an Israeli official trying to buy Farfour's land. At one point, Farfour called the Israeli a "terrorist."

[edit] Mickey Mouse Operation

Redirects from Micket Mouse Operation, does not explain the expression.


[edit] Farfur Query

I know much of the Disney family has been in uproar over the now-deceased Farfur character, but does anyone know if there had been any criticism of the character's usage by The Walt Disney Company (considering how protective they are about Mickey's image)? WAVY 10 15:31, 17 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Image Clutter

Can we get some consensus on what images are representative and necessary, and where they should go?

As of right now, this article has 19 images, up from the 11 images that were on the article just last week. One subsection has at least 3 images, and some of the images disrupt the flow of the article by spilling into other sections. For example, the Steamboat Willy image in this version occurs far below the section it was placed in (First Appearance of Black Pete), and I am operating on a 1440-wide screen.

I've removed the unsourced "Mickey" fresco as irrelevant and have moved the headshot to the top to take up some of the available whitespace. --健次(derumi)talk 17:32, 3 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Ship Anecdote

I've read of this story before. Dr. Toon's column in _Animation World Magazine_ for 9/29/07 (He's also commenting about Farfour):

"There is a story dating back to the 1960s that tells of how a U.S. hospital ship had to solve the problem of getting children to come to the shore for health services. One doctor came up with the idea of painting a picture of Mickey Mouse on the side of the ship. Despite having no previous exposure to the Mouse, the kids were immediately attracted to the painting of a smiling Mickey, and hit the beach in swarms."

Is this pertinent to Wikipedia article? 71.206.221.118 21:34, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Creation: Disney ripped off the Performo-Toy Company?

Interesting blog from BoingBoing pointing to an eBay auction which provides claims that Disney ripped off the design for MM from the Performo-Toy Company, and then contrived to steal their intellectual property rights. --Tagishsimon (talk) 22:26, 17 October 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Evil mouse in Betty Boop

A mouse looking exactly like Mickey (except it has no pants) pops up in Fleischer's Betty Boop cartoons, "Jack and the Beanstalk" from 1931 and "Bimbo's initiation" the same year. This mouse is evil: in the first film it attempts more or less to rape a tied-up Betty, in the second, it locks Bimbo in the underworld. Is this a slur on a competing studio? Were there any legal consequences? Sponsianus 21:12, 8 November 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Responses to above debates

I'm currently reading "Building A Company: Roy O Disney and The Creation of An Entertainment Empire" by Bob Thomas. Although I fear the book may be somewhat biased toward the company, it does answer some of the issues discussed above

  • It which claims Steamboat Willie was the first cartoon ever to use sound
  • It tells quite few anecdotes relating to copyright, with regards to both selling toys in the likeness of the Mouse, or the early attempts to create cartoons with similar looking mice. In many cases, Walt threatened litigation, and settlements were made in his favour
  • Ironically, in one of the above cases, there was a deal made authorising a large company to be the only official merchandiser in Germany, then (less than a year later) all Mickey references in Germany were badmouthed by Hitler

TimothyJacobson 20:34, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Response to Flurry of Vandalism

I've noticed the page is being vandalized several times daily by many ill-meaning IPs, and I've reverted quite a bit of such on the page itself over the last few days. Is there any chance that this page could be locked so that only established users can edit it? No one has to do so, I'm just making a suggestion and trying to help. — Cinemaniac (talk) 01:01, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Disney magical quest, optional

I been wondering about an old game long ago related to the disney magical quest series. There was once a section where you can play 2 players as mickey and minney mouse both working together while they go through something as such with a different series of costumes. First costume was a vacuum attire for sucking in enemies or blowing them out. A second was a cowboy attire for riding along and shooting long range, and a third one was possibly a climbers outfit for hiking. I can't seem to find such information on the related links to mickey mouse. Can someone help? Mialover730 (talk) 12:53, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Strange, uncredited Mickey "facts"

I've researched Mickey and Disney for years, having worked for several licensees and even contributed to some published books. But I'm dubious about some uncredited "facts" that appear on the page presently:

• That "Mickey was created as a replacement for Oswald the Lucky Rabbit, an earlier cartoon character created by the Disney studio for Christian Mitchell of Universal Studios." Where does the name Christian Mitchell come from? I don't find it in Merritt and Kaufman's WALT IN WONDERLAND or the recent Oswald Rabbit DVD. Or maybe I overlooked it somehow?

• "Walt Disney got the inspiration for Mickey Mouse when he saw a dead mouse on the traintracks." What? It's often accepted that Walt came up with Mickey on a train trip, but I've never heard of a dead mouse on the tracks.

• Under PLANE CRAZY there is now a discussion of Hugh Harman and Rudy Ising still working with Disney at the time the cartoon was made, and perhaps (it's unclear) into 1929. Harman and Ising were working with Disney at the time PLANE CRAZY was made, but they did not work on PLANE CRAZY; rather, they worked on the remaining Oswald shorts. According to several sources, the only Oswald staffer who both worked on PLANE CRAZY and left to go to Mintz was Ben Clopton. So why are we mentioning Hugh and Rudy here?

Finally, I'm highly dubious that an incredibly detailed, highly emotional and "fannish" recounting of the Disney on Ice "The Incredibles" performance really belongs here. By the same token we could include descriptions of almost every Disney on Ice or Disney theme park show, as Mickey and Minnie costumed characters play major parts in huge numbers of them. Ramapith (talk) 01:12, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

Speaking as Railroad Conductor, I can say in my whole Railroad career I have never seen a dead mouse on the tracks, and I can also say that from a passenger car it would be harder to see one. BeckyAnne(talk) 01:38, 22 January 2008 (UTC)


[edit] A Mickey Mouse "precursor"?

I'd like to propose to add the following interesting curiosity to Mickey Mouse article:

The logo of the old Neapolitan liquor and syrup factory La Sorgente, designed in 1920, is surprisingly similar to the first version of Mickey Mouse, though it was designed eariler than Disney's character. Guarracino (talk) 11:55, 24 Jan 2008 (CET)

If you've got a reference for it, then definitely go ahead. It really needs an external website that can very that this claim is correct. — alex.muller (talk • edits) 11:00, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

What about the following discussion (in Italian, sorry...) [1]? It does report the fact, but adds no "official" document. It reports that there was also a legal dispute long ago whose sentence was that the two characters were independently designed in a "converging" way. (talk) 14:44, 24 Jan 2008 (CET)

By the way, I registered, but still have no permission to edit this page (talk) 15:53, 24 Jan 2008 (CET)
The page is semi-protected, so your account has to be 4 days old to edit (I think). I'll have a look at that link later and reply here. Thanks — alex.muller (talk • edits) 14:56, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
Hmmm, something more than that discussion is needed, I'm afraid. Keep having a look (as will I) and we'll see if there's anything out there. — alex.muller (talk • edits) 22:02, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
The same user, Guarracino, added that paragraph on it.wiki (italian article is not semi-protected). An administrator removed it, and Guarracino (or his sockpuppet) added it again. Please, cite a reliable source: in that forum page, people talk about a lawsuit, but they don't even remember when it happened. If you google for words like "lawsuit", "la sorgente", "disney", etc, you don't find anything related. Maybe the company was created in 1920, but it started later to use Mickey as a logo, maybe with Disney's permission, who knows? Again: we need a reliable source. Please, Guarracino, do talk about it in the italian talk page, as Marcok (italian admin) and I advised you... --KingFanel (talk) 15:14, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Vandalism?

"Disney got the inspiration for Mickey Mouse when he saw a dead mouse on the traintracks."

I believe this is vandalism. 76.126.29.36 (talk) 02:15, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] there should be... (image)

image of the big circle/small circle, small circle Mickey symbol.

[edit] Comic Book

This page should link to this page Mickey Mouse (comic book) —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.253.64.213 (talk) 15:23, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] DHS Logo Appearance

Is Mickey's being in the Disney's Hollywood Studios logo mentioned in the article? 68DANNY2 (talk) 22:10, 2 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Pat Powers?

has anyone noticed this sect5ion at the bottom of the article - it's badly written unsourced and confusing... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.234.243.2 (talk) 14:51, 16 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Suggested section deletions

The article currently contains section-long discussions of MM cartoons without any real justification for the discussions. In other words, an encyclopedia article should try to be succinct, and present important information about a topic, not seemingly random strolls through the early MM catalog, with fannish attention to trivia. I recommend that the following sections be deleted:

Mickey as suitor
Depiction as regular mouse
Mickey as soldier
Mickey entering the Depression Era (except the last sentence, about MM Clubs)
Classical music performances
Departure of a co-creator and consequences (delete most of first paragraph)

— Walloon (talk) 14:10, 23 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Disney land

I think a section on mickey mouse at disneyland would be good. I know it may not seen that notable of an appearance, but unlike hte other costume characters, mickey mouse appears in his own attraction, mickey, where you get to meet him in a small group, unlike the other characters who just wander about and you don't get a chance to meet.

I dunno if anyone knows anything about mickey mouse's first appearance at disneyland or the other park or when the mickey's house attraction where you get to meet mickey was made, (the one at California disney looked like a newer atraction, certainly not as old as the origional rides like small world etc). What does everyone think? —Preceding unsigned comment added by OktoberSunset (talk • contribs) 13:34, 30 April 2008 (UTC)