Talk:Michael Jackson album discography

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i find it interesting that there are no links to the actual albums--Jaysscholar 23:59, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

Contents

[edit] General

This page is appaling. Have you seen Mariah Carey's discography page, that's the way this should be.

[edit] Order?

Why in the name of God are the Epic alums listed before the Motown ones? --FuriousFreddy 17:24, 19 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Thriller sales

104 millions copies of Thriller sold?! this is ridiculous. It's around 50 million—Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.175.180.165 (talk • contribs)

Sorry, Guinness world records says so...--Ashadeofgrey (talk • contribs) 23:39, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
Yeah I love Michael, but I definitely don't believe Thriller sold the 104 million that Guinness is claiming. When I added up the sales for the countries provided on the Thriller page it's just under 50 million. That's probably at least 80% of the world's music markets right there. Believe me, I would love for it to have sold 104 million, but I'd honestly say it's around 60 million. Either way, it's still the best selling album in the world and I'm happy about that. 128.180.211.181 18:59, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
104 million copies of Thriller sold is IMPOSSIBLE! That is inflated by at least x2. Guinness does NOT specialize in album sales. Here are CERTIFIED sales that were not able to be proven in guinness.
Certified Sales
USA= 27,000,000 (2005, RIAA)
Argentina= 577,000 (1999)
Canada= 2,200,000 (1984)
Brazil= 1,200,000
Mexico= 400,000 (1994)
Total sales in America = ==31,377,000==
  • Europe = 8,250,000 (IFPI)
Certified Sales
Germany= 1,500,000 (1995) Netherlands= 800,000 (1996) Switzerland= 300,000 (1995)
  • Other Sales
UK= 3,578,000 (2006, OCC) + 182,000 (Club sales until July 1992) = 3,760,000
France= 1,800,000 (1984) Finland= 90,000
  • Other Countries = 2,610,000
Certified Sales
Australia= 840,000 (ARIA, 2001)
Other Sales
Japan= 1,620,000 (ORICON, 2006) New Zealand= 150,000
If anyone wants to add on other countries go ahead. But you have to realize that 100 million is impossible, anyone would like to prove me wrong with actual sales from each country feel free to. If anyone has certified sales feel free to post. I tried to site all my sources and dates when they were last certified. For now, I'm putting it at 60 million (which is an extra 10 million for any missing countries which IMO is extremely fair). Ayumi4u 04:16, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
This is not how wikipedia works, although I agree with you in principle. Actual sales figures are here [1], which is the most complete list seen. Within wikipedia, you cannot amend detail that has been referenced unless you have a reference that is from a more reliable source. The 104 million sales figure is from Guinness World Records, so it will be near impossible to get a source considered more reliable. Then there is the alternative, to dispute the figure, and put under discussion. But this does not mean that you can automatically amend the page. Then concensus is used to determine what figure to use. The other issue with your correction is that it is at most a guess, thus non verifiable. So you are wishing to replace a referenced verified figure with a non referenced, non verifiable one. For these reasons, the detail should stay - until concensus has been reached. 60.234.242.196 11:18, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
Well these are certified shipment of sales from ARIA, RIAA, Oricon, etc. These aren't just made up from some Michael fansite. These are actual researched from the official countries tracker for shipments and sales. I can give you the website to each one if you would like to see and add up everything yourself; I thought I was saving you guys some work. "But this does not mean that you can automatically amend the page." Wikipedia does say to be bold and since most people don't respond to my talks (I thank you both for that) I took action and a little explaination why. I will leave it at 104 million, though I still don't see why we are leaving up something that we all know is fake. Guinness book of world records is known for having a lot of claims that are untrue. ex. largest vocal range from Georgia Brown with 9 octaves (G2-G10, which is technically 8 octaves, another mistake). A lot of musical experts say a G10 is physically an impossible note to hit. Anyways, like I said, I'll leave it as is, but I don't understand why we all know this claim is untrue but are not changing it. I'm thinking it might be best to just get rid of it altogether since 100 million seems to be misleading and unbelieveable yet we are writing it in stone. Ayumi4u 22:11, 23 April 2007 (UTC)


Yeah we agree with you: Thriller has not sold 100 million copies. But as the above user explained, making an ontological claim like that is not grounds for changing Wikipedia, mainly because you're making a claim to truth, which is not allowed here. Ideally you go by what's widely reported in reliable sources, and even here the 100 million figure is creeping up in a lot of places, even though it's complete rubbish. But when it comes to record sales, you really can actually go by isolated claims from what sometimes appear to be the most disreputable of all internet sources (even personal homepages have been allowed, among other things).UberCryxic 16:04, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

I hear sales of Invincible are wrong though, more often (The Elfoid 21:01, 21 November 2006 (UTC))

Well, according to Guinness World Records 2008, Thriller has officially sold 55 million copies (according to Epic Records) and 104000000 copies according to Michael's management. According to the article, the exact number of sales is unverifiable, but Thriller still is the best-selling album of all time.Agapitos60 10:11, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

Yes, Guinness confirmed that the RIAA & Sony gathered information to come up with the grand total of 55 million - which is the most accurate. I think 104 million is a strange claim, I mean the 4 million is completely irrelevent next to the 100 million. They could've said with sales reaching over 100 million. In Michael Jackson's booklet for The Ultimate Collection, it claims Thriller is the best-selling album of all-time with 47 million copies sold - and that was released in 2004. Guinness claimed 55 million in 2007, that means Thriller sold an additional 8 million copies in three years to reach 55 million - I think even that number is too high. The majority of the records Thriller shifted were in the 80s. With 20 million sold in the U.S alone through to October 1984, and an additional 7 million through to April 2005, making 27 million U.S sales. By the time he released Bad in August 1987, Thriller was estimated as having sold 40 million copies. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.195.33.225 (talk) 21:43, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] United States Sales of Thriller

Have there been any updates to Thriller's sales in the United States. Since it turns out that the album has sold over 104 million copies worldwide, it should have replaced The Eagles Greatest Hits album as the number one album in the U.S. by now. Does anyone have any info on this?--Stardust6000 03:18, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

It's still 27x Platinum I think. I'm quite skeptical about the Guinness figures, but if they are true, they would have been mostly driven by foreign sales. MJ is still huge all over the world, even though he has declined in the US.UberCryxic 19:39, 2 February 2007 (UTC)

You know, a band has to PAY the RIAA for certification I believe. They certainly have to request it. (The Elfoid (talk) 02:30, 15 December 2007 (UTC))

[edit] Invincible sales

Where is the 11 million figure for global sales coming from? Almost all sources I've seen say 8 million.UberCryxic 05:38, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] thriller sales

the album thriller sold about 65 million, however all the singles released such as billy jean,beat it,pyt these singles sold over 5 million each and billy jean single sold an estimated 7.8million copies

Sales for Thriller are a mess right now; no one has any idea what the precise figure is. It's somewhere between 60 million and the Guinness figure, but what exactly is up in the air.UberCryxic 05:53, 1 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Including Singles

Thriller has sold 104 million copies INCLUDING single sales. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 74.109.47.151 (talk) 13:05, 28 April 2007 (UTC).

Guinness made it explicitly clear that they were talking about album sales only.UberCryxic 15:42, 4 May 2007 (UTC)

Well, according to Guinness World Records 2008, Thriller has officially sold 55 million copies (according to Epic Records) and 104000000 copies according to Michael's management. According to the article, the exact number of sale is unverifiable, but Thriller still is the best-selling album of all time.Agapitos60 10:08, 23 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Both the albums and singles discography pages of Michael's need to be edited severly, lol

...and I'm saying that in respect to whoever worked their hardest to make the thing look as "varied" as they try to. It just look out of order to me. BrothaTimothy (talk · contribs) 04:44, 12 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Sales figures and RIAA certification

A lot of people confuse the RIAA certifications for actual album sales. The RIAA keeps track of how many numbers of albums are shipped, not necessarily sold. Sometimes, the actual sales figures will differ from any RIAA certification it might have. Sometimes they're higher, sometimes they're lower. Take the 25th anniversary release for Thriller, it came out in Feb. of this year and is listed at having sold 530,000 + copies, but there's no certification listing in the RIAA gold and platinum database. And, since there no sources for any of the sales, with the exception of thriller, anybody can just make up whatever figure they like and toss into the article. Something that's done to a lot of discography articles on a regular basis.Odin's Beard (talk) 23:20, 24 May 2008 (UTC)