Talk:Michael Blanc

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography. For more information, visit the project page.
Biography Portal
??? This article has not yet received a rating on the project's quality scale. [FAQ]

Please rate the article and, if you wish, leave comments here regarding your assessment or the strengths and weaknesses of the article.
Photo request It is requested that a picture or pictures of this person be included in this article to improve its quality.

Note: Wikipedia's non-free content use policy almost never permits the use of non-free images (such as promotional photos, press photos, screenshots, book covers and similar) to merely show what a living person looks like. Efforts should be made to take a free licensed photo during a public appearance, or obtaining a free content release of an existing photo instead.
Articles for deletion This article was nominated for deletion on 28 October 2007. The result of the discussion was no consensus.


[edit] OR removed

"His case, which has been compared to imprisoned Australian tourist Schapelle Corby" - blatant misrepresentation of references. Haven't seen the second reference, but I'm assuming it's similar to the first reference which is here. It's hardly compared, simply mentioned in the same news story. I request all future references be direct links where possible, to avoid any further incorrect use of references. One Night In Hackney303 11:19, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

As above. Since the editor in question has previously used a 2000 book and claimed it was published in 2006 and referenced events post-2000, this is not an unreasonable suggestion. I doubt you have access to hard copies of the reports in question from your computer, so please provide the links you are using. One Night In Hackney303 12:18, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

I've reworded the statements, however I'm a little puzzled over your reaction to my edits. I've been working on the article for awhile and almost all the references I provided came from my local library. Some of the references you mention, particularly to Le Figaro was already cited in the article prior to my edits. If there's any problems with the references, I can fix them as I'm still working on the article. If my edits aren't helpful, then you can do what you want with the article.

As for the previous conversation on my talk page, I only edited several title history pages. This was based on a link I already showed you which was based on the 240+ which gave the same date. I don't know how you got the idea that I personally added all those references myself, but you're mistaken. 71.184.48.105 12:44, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Please drop the act, it's clear from your editing interests and formatting style you are the editor who fraudulently used references in the past, and are continuing to do so now based on the Corby situation above. As for the rest, if you add the text back, you're responsible for making sure it's accurate. "Freedom fighter tells Corby not to give up" - where is this article? I can find no trace of it on the web. Direct link, as requested please. You can obviously read it, so why not supply a direct link so other people can? My question below remains - where in the Figaro article does it say "his story has been regularly featured in the French media most notably being featured twice on the tv series Sept à huit"? It doesn't, so I've removed it as unsourced accordingly since you've repeatedly refused to source it. One Night In Hackney303 12:48, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

Listen pal, I don't know what you're problem is but I don't know what your talking about. My "editing intrests" and "formatting style" ? I found this article by looking through the Afd category. I did some looking, and it seemed to me like the guy seemed at least a bit similar to Schapelle Corby's case. I'm sorry if you don't agree and maybe your upset about loosing your Afd debate, but that's not my problem. If everyone feels the same as you, that you shouldn't have anything to worry about. Trying to pin something else on me, even after I went to the trouble of referencing the articles with a completely seperate references, is just petty. If this is some half baked attempt to get me banned, I hope other ditors will be able to see through it. 71.184.48.105 13:02, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

It seemed to you that it's similar to the Schapelle Corby case? There's not really much more that needs to be added to that, except no original research. I again repeat my request for a link to the "Freedom fighter tells Corby not to give up" article, and any other sources you have added without providing links. One Night In Hackney303 18:13, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
And let's set this straight, you have fraudulently used references. You added back a reference (one of many) I had removed as false with a summary of "replaced deleted reference; the original reference is correct as the 4th edition came out in 2006 (not 2000). This seems to be an honest mistake rather than intentional as the previous editor claims". You openly admit to having seen the book here. The author's site the book only covers up to early 2000, and also confirms the fourth edition was the first in five years. Amazon confirm the fourth edition came out in 2000, and Worldcat confirm the third edition came out in 1995 and the fourth edition came out in 2000, giving the five year gap specificed by the author. You claimed the book came out in 2006 and said I was wrong, when I clearly am not. So you either lied, or added back the reference without seeing if it sourced the information in the articles, and both are equally as bad.
As for this article there's the false reference you used above, in addition to all the links you haven't provided despite repeated requests. You also made an edit with a summary of "removed fact citation; if the editor would note the "references" section, there are already several French and Indonesian press reports cited in the article". A few newspaper reports does not equal "large amount of mainstream media coverage by both the French and Indonesian [press]", my citation was perfectly valid and removed without being sourced. At the same time you also removed my {{dubious}} tag without any attempt to discuss the matter. Your defence of "I didn't add it in the first place" doesn't hold water when you're removing the tag. By removing the tag you're taking responsibility for the original edit and content. One Night In Hackney303 18:23, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Ok, I'm not sure if English is your first language but I'll try to explain the situation as you obviously didn't didn't get it when I first told you. Yeah, I've edited a few wretling articles while I've been editing here. One of a few things I've been doing is correcting a large amount of wrestling article which claim to have no references when in fact they do but either have very little or simply no cited references ({{unreferenced}} to {{refimprove}} or {{nofootnote}}). Several of these were the title history pages in which you not only removed the book (which did reference at least part of the article as I pointed out to you having read the book) but valid external links as well. I didn't argue with you and I even when ahead and added a complely seperate reference.

But you're right, we should get one thing straight. I never "added" the book to ANY wrestling article (with the exception of article's I had previously created for wrestlers whose careers were during between the 1970s and 1990s). I restored the book, as I know it does both reference the promotion and at least part of the time period, as well as the links that were deleted. If you'd check the first ten articles of the Google link I sent you, you see I have edited NONE of the articles and that the reference (with the exact date as I pointed out) was added by several registered users. I suppose its just easier to blame an anonymous user, right ?

I was working on the article when you reverted the changes and as a result my version came out looking chopped up and a lot less readible. For example, one of the statments as it had been originally written read:

"His case, which has been compared to imprisoned Australian tourist Schapelle Corby [1] and other Australians [2] [3] has recieved a large amount of mainstream media coverage by both the French and Indonesian press which has prompted the French government to negotiate a prisooner exchange agreement with Indonisia for his release. [4]"
  1. ^ "Freedom fighter tells Corby not to give up". The Age. 16 April 2005
  2. ^ "Dream island of Bali will be jail nightmare for Australian drug smuggler". Agence France Presse. 28 May 2005
  3. ^ "Two Australians Sentenced To Life For Drug Trafficking". The Jakarta Post. 14 Feb 2006
  4. ^ "France Also Seeking Transfer-Of-Prisoners Agreement With RI". The Indonesian National News Agency. 08 Jun 2005

If there's a problem with the wording, fine. In fact I would hope that someone would point something like that out. Instead of simply rewording the statement, you simply remove several important sources and a lot of the former text. You go so far as to claim I'm making up sources even when you found one of them online. To me, being mentioed in more then one French and Indonesian news article is at least significant. Maybe you think there should be more. But that's where it should end.

But no, I must be making these articles up or at least misrepresenting the facts according to you. You even go to the lengths of claiming I've ADDED the majority of the reference to the 200+ articles up to a year before I even started editing on Wikipedia. I'm an anonymous user so whose going to question that logic ? By the way, I came to the conclusion his case was similar to Corby's after I had done a significant amount of research, something you've obviously failed to do. If you're just going to pick apart every word I say, which is really all you've done at this point, and spin it to justify yourself then I'd rather not continue this conversation. 72.74.220.188 20:15, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Adding is the same as restoring, you're taking responsibility for the edit. I notice you're not standing by your claim that book was published in 2006 despite having been in possession of a copy, why is that? Perhaps because of the overwhelming evidence showing the fraudulent use of references has been exposed for the sham that it is? I'm still waiting on those links to those articles, so why don't you provide them? After all, I've asked multiple times, yet you keep ducking the question. One can only assume that there is some reason why you won't provide the links, whatever that may be.... One Night In Hackney303 20:32, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
Just for the record, are you denying you used to edit as User:MadMax? One Night In Hackney303 21:12, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
So now the Afd tag has closed and the discussion is practicly over as of delete or keep.--Zingostar 15:39, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
Stop it you two!--Zingostar 14:57, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Dubious

Where in the Figaro article does it say "his story has been regularly featured in the French media most notably being featured twice on the tv series Sept à huit"? One Night In Hackney303 11:37, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

I repeat my question. I also ask where the evidence is of "mainstream media coverage" in Indonesia. Who says those newspapers are mainstream? One Night In Hackney303 12:15, 3 November 2007 (UTC)
Also "prisoner exchange" would specifically involved Blanc being exchanged for another prisoner, which is not in the article. One Night In Hackney303 12:16, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

As I said, the Le Figaro article was already cited when I started editing the page. I don't know French so I'll have to take your word for it that it doesn't. The prisoner exchange agreement is from "France Also Seeking Transfer-Of-Prisoners Agreement With RI". by the The Indonesian National News Agency. Specifically the prisoner exchange came about becuase of Blanc's imprisonment. As several sources have been removed from your last edits, I've restored them and reworded the statement although in my opinion it does seem a bit of an overreaction. If you're accusing me of adding false information, I can provide a copy of at least several articles I've used. 71.184.48.105 12:51, 3 November 2007 (UTC)

You removed the dubious tag. If you don't know French, why did you remove the tag? Transfer =/= Exchange, yet again I ask for links to the sources you are using. One Night In Hackney303 18:25, 4 November 2007 (UTC)
He is notable. but as usuall ther are people trying to destroy the wikipedia..--Zingostar 18:57, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

"Cette affaire régulièrement médiatisée est suivie de très près par le ministre des Affaires étrangères Philippe Douste-Blazy"

--victor falk 22:31, 5 November 2007 (UTC)
That doesn't source the sentence in question does it? One Night In Hackney303 19:41, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] AfD is over

The AfD discussion is closed so i hope everyone can calm down and just keep their discussions on a nice level.--Zingostar 15:45, 5 November 2007 (UTC)