Talk:Michael

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This article falls within the scope of the Anthroponymy WikiProject, a collaborative effort to improve Wikipedia's coverage of Anthroponymy, the study of people's names. This project is dedicated to creating uniform helpful encyclopedia quality articles on the surnames, family names and nicknames of people. If you would like to participate, you can visit the project page, where you can join the project and see a list of open tasks.
Start This article has been rated as start-Class on the quality scale.
High This article has been rated as high-importance on the importance scale.
If you have rated this article please consider adding assessment comments.


Contents

[edit] This is Silly

Mick should not redirect here as it is also a racist slur.Jigsaw Jimmy 16:45, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

It says in the article that it has this offensive meaning.--Runcorn 19:26, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
but, por ejemplo, if you look up wop it leads to the list of ethnic slursJigsaw Jimmy 17:54, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
But Mick is used more often as a form of Michael than as a slur. I have never heard Wop used as a name. By all means x-ref the list of slurs. --Runcorn 06:31, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
what is this x-ref you speak of
I mean add a cross-reference like [[List of ethnic slurs]].--Runcorn 19:38, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Meaning of the name

July 21 2004: I changed the translation of Michael to include "Likened unto God," because that's what my rabbi once told me. Archangel Michael was so powerful because he was "like God." I have no other authority than a memory of Rabbi Joey, and I beg to be corrected. Also, I replaced "the Lord" with "God" because I think it's a more literal translation of the Hebrew root "el". In Hebrew, "the Lord" is better translated "Adonai," and "el" is used to refer to many gods, not only the God of Abraham. (Orthodox sticklers note: I haven't blanked out he middle letter of "god" because the commandment refers to God's name, not the word "god." Please excuse me.) --Cladist July 21 2004

Edit: I thought Michael meant "Who is like God?" a rhetorical Jewish exclamation, meaning "To whom can God be compared?"

The name definitely means "Who is like God?": see A J Kolatch, "The Complete Dictionary of English and Hebrew First Names". Runcorn 21:41, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

I believe that the meaning is "Who is like God" without the question mark. It's not a question, it's a statement: "...who is like God." I.e., the name-bearer "is like God."

Currently there is a version with, and one without a Question mar (see also box on the right). Can someone clarify which one is correct? And if both should be, make a case for one of both? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.74.49.137 (talk) 23:27, 8 February 2008 (UTC)

I know some hebrew, and it is definitely a question. Though for the purposes of a definition I'm not sure the question mark would be necessary or correct. The question is also meant to be rhetorical. Equazcion •✗/C • 23:35, 8 Feb 2008 (UTC)

[edit] True or false??

True or false: this article needs a link to the Wikipedia page talking about the banned user. 66.245.115.34 21:57, 27 Aug 2004 (UTC)

[edit] Things that don't belong here

As per Wikipedia:disambiguation disambiguation articles are for disambiguating amongst articles that would otherwise share the same title. To quote:

In most cases, do not list names of which Title is a part, unless the persons are very frequently referred to simply by their first or last name (e.g. Shakespeare, Galileo).

These entries have been removed because they do not belong here. The encyclopaedia articles on these subjects would not have the title Michael (but would have the titles that they actually do have).

Furthermore: Translations of words are the function of Wiktionary, the lexical companion to Wikipedia and which is a translating dictionary amongst many other things. They, also, do not belong here. Uncle G 18:11, 2005 Jun 5 (UTC)

They are useful for people trying to find people named Michael. —Lowellian (talk) 01:31, Jun 6, 2005 (UTC)
This situation is similar to that of a redirect. From Wikipedia:Redirect:
Someone finds them useful. Hint: If someone says they find a redirect useful, they probably do. You might not find it useful — this is not because the other person is a liar, but because you browse Wikipedia in different ways.
You might not find the stuff in this article useful, but you do not know others' browsing habits. Now, Michael could redirect straight to an article, but there are multiple famous people/things named Michael. That is why it has to be a disambiguation page, and that is why this stuff in the article has to be kept. —Lowellian (talk) 01:36, Jun 6, 2005 (UTC)
Your (or anyone else's) browsing habits are not the point: rather, it's Wikipedia policy not to list people on a dab page just because it's part of their name.—Wahoofive (talk) 05:24, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)
The relevant paragraph is this:
In most cases, do not list names of which Title is a part, unless the persons are very frequently referred to simply by their first or last name (e.g. Galileo, Shakespeare).
Accordingly, the kings of Portugal might belong, but not the modern Michaels.—Wahoofive (talk) 05:26, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)
This is not a disambiguation page. It's an article about the name "Michael", which includes lists of prominent people named Michael. —Michael Z. 2005-06-6 13:50 Z
I have started a discussion at Wikipedia talk:Disambiguation. —Lowellian (talk) 17:31, Jun 6, 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Michael

There is, IIRC, an actual questioning element in the Hebrew Michael, and thus, it could easily be read "Who is like G-d?" Supposedly this was the Archangel's response to the Adversary's attempt to tempt him away from faithful service.

That interpretation of the name is mentioned at Michael the Archangel.

[edit] Russian last tsar Michael

The article says that Prince Michael of Kent was named in honor of the last Russian tsar. However, the List of Russian rulers ends with Nicholas II. Mikhail Alexandrovich may not officially be called a tsar: he refused the title when Nicholas abdicated and was never crowned. Perhaps, it should be reflected here. Nikolenko 13:32, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merge: "Mick"

The section on short form and other uses was originally on "Mick", which is now redirected to this article. Fluit 23:25, 2 May 2006 (UTC)


The slang form of "mick" may be an an association of an Irish person with the "Mc" spelling common in Irish names, as contrasted with the "Mac" spelling more common in Scottish names. Gil 17:13, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

It's now proposed to merge Maicol, which seems fair enough. --Runcorn 06:54, 3 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Semi-Protection

There has been to many people vandalising this page so what if someone put a semi-protection on this page. Image:UK Animated flag.gif London UK Image:UK Animated flag.gif 16:15, 9 May 2006 (BST)

nothing happens. administrator can semi-protect page and than put tag for our information. i don't think that it's needed - it was just a random vandal. -- tasc talkdeeds 16:06, 9 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Maicol

"Maicol is another spelling of "Michael". It is a name given in Brazil (where it is more usual to write it as Maicon), Italy and sometimes other Latin countries" I have never heard of Maicol being used in Italy, only ever Michele. Can anyone correct me on this or should Italy be removed from the above sentence? Mike 16:08, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

This is very late, but the sentence is badly worded anyway, because it implies that Italy is a Latin country. 131.128.212.34 00:30, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Bulgarian Ruller with the name Michael

St. Boris-Michael (852—889 CE)

Ruler of First Bulgarian Kingdom. Born Boris; accepted Christianity and the name Michael in year 864.

[edit] 2007-03-14 Automated pywikipediabot message

This page has been transwikied to Wiktionary.
The article has content that is useful at Wiktionary. Therefore the article can be found at either here or here (logs 1 logs 2.)

Note: This means that the article has been copied to the Wiktionary Transwiki namespace for evaluation and formatting. It does not mean that the article is in the Wiktionary main namespace, or that it has been removed from Wikipedia's. Furthermore, the Wiktionarians might delete the article from Wiktionary if they do not find it to be appropriate for the Wiktionary.

Removing this tag will usually trigger CopyToWiktionaryBot to re-transwiki the entry. This article should have been removed from Category:Copy to Wiktionary and should not be re-added there.

--CopyToWiktionaryBot 06:10, 14 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Other languages

french: Michel, Michelle (female)

german: Michael, Michaela (female)

spanish: Miguel

italian: Michelle

russian: Mihail

hungarian: Mihaly

croatian: Mihovil

serbian: Mihajlo —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 89.51.3.204 (talk) 20:09, 15 March 2007 (UTC). Perhaps someone can add "Miguelito" which is another version of spainish.Mindflayerz 03:26, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Turkish : Mikail —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.97.26.196 (talk) 18:54, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Etymology

I have already pointed out that the translation "One who is like God" is impossible.--Runcorn 21:51, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

You did say: "The name definitely means "Who is like God?": see A J Kolatch, "The Complete Dictionary of English and Hebrew First Names"." But as far as I can see, you did not point out that the translation "One who is like God" is impossible. I would like to learn more about this. How is it impossible? Sunray 22:45, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
Because the Hebrew for "One who is like God" would be "Echad ke-ayl".--Runcorn 18:38, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
It is unusual to have the meaning of a name as a question. Why must it be translated as a question? Sunray 06:08, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
Maybe unusual, but that's what it is--a question. "Mi" = "Who"; "cha" = "is like"; "el" = "God." There is no "one" there. Note, it's not a real question, it's a rhetorical question whose point, seems to me, is that there is no one like God, which rules out the translation "One who is like God."

BTW the content under discussion here is dictionary content which is why it's been transwikied to Wiktionary and should be removed from Wikipedia following Wikipedia:Wikipedia is not a dictionary. Pan Dan 14:08, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

What bothers me about that translation is how the question mark gets added. "Who is like God," without a question mark has quite a different meaning. Sure etymology is dictionary content, however, that isn't the only content. Second para and other parts of the articll are encyclopedic. Sunray 14:53, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

That is an illustration of the difficulty of translating from another language, especially one so different from English. I have another reference: "Oxford Dictionary of the Bible" ed. W R F Browning, Oxford University Press 1996, art. "Michael": "Hebrew for 'Who is like God?'". I can't see that an explanation of the meaning of the name is beyond the scope of an encyclopaedia.--Runcorn 18:36, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

When the article talks about the rate of uptake of the name; that is beyond etymology.
There are several dictionaries out there with different explanations of the meaning. I grant you "Who is like God?" is the most common. However, the phrase also appears without the question mark. Which led me to wonder. Sunray 16:21, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
I can't see that an explanation of the meaning of the name is beyond the scope of an encyclopaedia -- then you disagree with WP:WINAD. Note also that the sources you have cited regarding the meaning, are dictionaries. Pan Dan 16:35, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
  • I could have cited the Oxford Companion to the Bible, or several other books that are not dictionaries.--Runcorn 22:12, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
There is not only an explanation of meaning given. There is also information on its usage and other facts. Sunray 19:52, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
I won't haggle about the content on Michael's popularity. The content on its etymology and variants should go. Pan Dan 20:15, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
I've read the policy on this. You will have to point me to the line that says "it is forbidden to have any etymological information in articles" (or some such statement). Many articles have etymological information as part of the article (see, for example Culture. I would think that such an approach only makes the article more informative (and sometimes interesting) for the reader. In the case of an article about a name, it seems pretty basic to have that included. Sunray 20:31, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
The policy that I linked to explains what dictionary content is, and the title of the page is "Wikipedia Is Not a Dictionary." That seems clear. However I'm not going to haggle over that either.

Let me just lay out what I think the ideal thing to do here would be. I think we should do here what was done with the page Emily. The dictionary content was removed, and a link to List of most popular given names was added at the bottom (I see a vandal has removed that; have just put it back). No information was lost, and I think the information is now presented in a more coherent fashion. The page Emily is now a disambiguation page. The reader seeking information about the etymology and variants of Emily is referred to Wikt:Emily. The reader seeking information about its popularity is referred to List of most popular given names. Pan Dan 21:59, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

My reaction to that is that the people who worked on Emily obviously haven't put in nearly the same amount of time and effort as the people who have produced Michael. So far, in this discussion, you have given short shrift to the points raised by me and simply quoted policy in response. I tend to disagree with your interpretation of that policy and have asked you to show me where it says that an article cannot have etymological information in it. This you have failed to do. Should we move on? Sunray 22:33, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
I already said I wouldn't haggle about this. I've said my piece, and as far as I'm concerned the article can stay as it is for now. However you might want to read Wikipedia:Wikipedia is not a dictionary just one more time; also check out Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style_(disambiguation_pages)#Linking to Wiktionary. Pan Dan 16:44, 25 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Other languages

Something worth doing is worth doing well. Michael in Hungarian is Mihály, with an á.

More English name derivations from Michael There is a surname Mihell with about 14 variant spellings such as Myel, Myell Mihill which are said to derive from the French version introduced by the Normans from 1066. Before spelling was standardised some of these spellings were used as Christian names too. Also used for the archangel as in "Seynte Mihell tharcangel" in the records of Yalding Church (West Sussex)donations. More information about the name variants is on the Internet Surname Database.Sue V King 17:10, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

I've never heard of "Mix" in Swedish but "Micke" is extremely common. Changed. Orcoteuthis (talk) 19:44, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Hebrew origin: transliteration needed

" Hebrew: מִיכָאֵל / מיכאל "‎: This is English wikipedia. Please provide English trans;itreration. `'Míkka 00:24, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

I added a transliteration as suggested, however there is no English equivalent of the Hebrew כ sound. The closest is CHA, but it's really supposed to be a sound that emanates from the throat. If anyone knows of a way to transliterate the true pronunciation please edit my version. 03:02, 21 August 2007 (UTC)
Changed CHA to the more accurate KHA. Still not perfect, but better. 03:17, 21 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Why is there a question mark?

Michael -> "Who is like God?"

Was there no punctuation back then? —Preceding unsigned comment added by CarosLaw (talk • contribs) 03:17, 1 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Wrong transcription from Russian!

In transcription from Cyrillic, it's Michail with an i. Please change. -andy 84.149.103.162 (talk) 23:55, 15 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Mikhail Gorbachev

I added M. Gorbachev to the list of Russian rulers, although the whole list of rulers contains people who mostly had absolute power during their reign. In addition, Gorbachev was not just the leader of Russia, but also that of the whole Soviet Union, even though much of the actual governing was done also by the Poliburo. -Mardus (talk) 05:59, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Meaning Clarification

"Who is like god." Is this saying that the bearer of the name is like god, or is it a question asking if he is like god? Just wondering. 125.238.135.45 (talk) 02:28, 23 March 2008 (UTC)