Talk:Mi'kmaq

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[edit] Kevin Cloud Micmac?

I have a strong suspicion that the Kevin Cloud linked to on this page is not the correct one. Somebody more knowledgable than me can confirm this. Ed Sanville 21:51, 14 August 2007 (UTC)Estimates of the original Micmac population vary between 3,000 and 30,000, with general consensus being somewhere around 20,000. European contact began early, and by 1620 epidemics had reduced the Micmac to less than 4,000. By 1760 their numbers had fall

[edit]

I am reasonably certain that Mi'kmaq is now the more common spelling, at least in Canadian journalistic usage. It's the first spelling listed[ in my 1998 Canadian Oxford. I propose we move this. - Montréalais 16:56, 6 Oct 2003 (UTC)

In the province of Quebec, the spelling is Mi'gmaq - the g replaces the k in this area's dialect.

Bob Newman appears to not belong on this page. His bio says nothing about him being a L'nu (Mi'kmaw). We'jitu 23:12, 15 July 2006 (UTC)

] I put in the table, but on second thoughts, it looks rather busy, doesn't it? What do you others think? QuartierLatin1968 04:00, 27 Oct 2004 (UTC)

It would be worth noting that the pronunciation of Mi'kmaq is not "mick-mack" as many people call it, but rather "mig-maw". It would be great to have the pronounciation written out in the IPA format but I don't know the first thing about doing that. - PullUpYourSocks 16:58, 23 Jan 2005 (UTC)

If someone wants to try to tell me what the letters in Mi'gmaq represent, I can render it in the IPA. Of course, the result will only be as good as the info you give me, since I know nothing about the language itself, and I understand it's rather divergent from other Algonkian languages. Let me know on my talk page, in case I miss it here. kwami 12:35, 2005 July 14 (UTC)
From what I've read, I believe the pronunciation is /miːkmax/. The spelling <Mi'kmaq> is in the Listuguj orthography. Since /k/ is allophonically voiced in this case, I think the pronunciation ends up being [miːgmax]. Mi'kmaw is the singular form, which I imagine is pronounced /miːkmaw/. The spelling in the official Francis-Smith orthography would be <Míkmaq>. But don't quote me on any of this; I'm just using online resources here. --Whimemsz 22:05, 17 September 2005 (UTC)
It's always [miːgmax] and [miːgmaw], and never /miːkmax/. In other words, the k in Mi'kmaq is always pronounced as a hard g and it sounds like meeg-mahgh. Actually that last sound denoted by q is a little more raspy and voiced than unvoiced, so it would be closer to ɣ than x, ie, [miːgmaɣ]... ፈቃደ (ውይይት) 04:22, 25 October 2006 (UTC)


In the table you've forgotten Red Bank, in Red Bank New Brunswick. I don't have any numbers, however, or pronounciations for you. I have more information on the Mi'kmaq, my family is from Eel Ground, so I will work on something to add to our article. --Irina 02:11, 19 May 2005 (UTC)

In the table, the spelling for Whycocomagh was incorrect (Whycomagh). However, the page for Whycocomagh has the correct spelling. So... I assumed that it was just a typo, rather than ignorance; seeing as you had to have typed the correct spelling in the source code for the page to link properly. All fixed.

Some good work has been done since I last checked this out. I made a few corrections regarding the Wabanaki Confederacy and the Treaties with Britain. There were five nations in the Confederacy, not seven; I added their names. I think the person who wrote that was thinking of the seven districts, with the historic addition of Great Britain as the eighth (as illustrated by the eight pointed star). I changed that statement and moved it to the end. Davidzukovny 04:02, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Yeah that was me, thanks a bunch for setting that straight! Cheers, ፈቃደ (ውይይት) 04:22, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

Thanks to whoever added the flag. I added a bit about the concordat with the Vatican, and also the population of Abegweit FN (constantly changing, but an estimate). I made a few other minor changes. Davidzukovny 01:24, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

I see someone changed the details of the concordat to having been concluded with the French Jesuits. Obviously it was concluded by the Jesuits, but my understanding was that it was on behalf of the Vatican and the Holy see? Davidzukovny 01:47, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Mi'kmaq subdivisions and POV

Anonymous user 69.37.197.130 added the following paragraph to the Mi'kmaq subdivisions section that contains numerous problems:

"As many Micmacs spoke Scottish Gaelic as French, since New Scotland had inhabitants who can trace their relationship back 1,000 years to the Irish/Scottish/Swedish immigrants who came with Eric the Red to Newfoundland and then crossed into Nova Scotia and into Martha's Vineyard. The Island of Cape Breton was predominantly French and Scottish Gaelic and English speaking natives. The people had no automobiles until around 1914 and no road to the mainland until 1954. They all fished and farmed. There were no rich people in Cape Breton other than a few well-known engineers in the Baddeck area, like Alexander Graham Bell. Almost all the people lived a basically subsistence lifestyle except for one or two refugees from the French and Scottish Revolutions which drove Catholics out of the Highlands and out of France in the 18th century and then the Catholics out of Russia in the early 20th century. My father's tribe of Micmacs in 1913 spoke mostly Scottish Gaelic or Scots English. If any Canadians spoke anything in the 20th century other than a European based language, they must have been living in the Northwest Territories of Ontario, known as the Hinterlands. All Nova Scotians from at least 1905 were required to go to English schools in Nova Scotia."

Some of the problems here:

  1. In first person, and apparently anecdotal.
  2. Factually incorrect. Erik the Red never made it to Newfoundland for one, and the settlement party with Leif Eriksson would have been only Norse, including no Irish or Scots. Nova Scotia was called that precisely because it was granted by Charles I to a colonizing group from Scotland in 1620. However, the colony was short-lived due to politics between Britain and France at the time, and any Gaelic seen today is likely the result of large numbers of Gaelic-speaking Highland Scots emigrat[ing] to Cape Breton and the western portion of the mainland during the late 18th century and 19th century (from Nova Scotia#History).

So my question to other Wikipedians is, can we use any of the added material? I suspect that anecdotes don't cut the mustard, but I'm not sure, and thus I will not delete this section right away. If no one has any comments in the next week or so, I'll remove the paragraph. Cheers, Eiríkr Útlendi 18:56, 1 March 2006 (UTC)

The first person narrative needs to go. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 134.153.96.40 (talk • contribs) 8 March 2006, 21:54 (UTC)

I disagree with this deletion. Narratives like this are an important part of Mi'kmaq culture. Davidzukovny 03:59, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

It may be an important part of their culture, but this is still supposed to resemble an encyclopedia. Gelston 15:04, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
It's fictional... Gaelic was certainly spoken in Mi'kmaq country, but I've never heard of any Mi'kmaq themselves speaking it... ፈቃደ (ውይይት) 15:23, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Population?

What is the population information, is that status indians, or people of aboriginal descent, or self identified mi'kmaq? I had thought that mi'kmaq population in Nova Scotia alone was 20K, slightly less than the 30k for Acadian and 30K for African Nova Scotian. WayeMason 00:05, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Good question. Our population figures don't seem to agree with each other. I added some figures for estimated pre-contact population. I have never seen anything lower than 5,000, but that is definitely at the low end. I know the Crown in the Marshall case acknowledged that it might have been as high as 10,000-20,000 (and we can guess that their figures would tend to be a lower-end estimate), and I have seen as high as 35,000. But that does not seem to gibe with the numbers that someone put in the chart. Any suggestions? Also, someone has changed my population figures. Is there any particular reason for this?Davidzukovny 01:34, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Míkmaq orthography

I'm requesting discussion about moving from Mi'kmaq to Míkmaq for articles relating to this topic. Please see Talk:Mi'kmaq language and discuss there. Thanks! Evertype 19:21, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merge from L'nu

We don't need two articles about the same nation. A section on the various names used to designate the nation could easily fit in this article. Indefatigable 12:53, 28 October 2006 (UTC)


[edit] "related groups" info removed from infobox

For dedicated editors of this page: The "Related Groups" info was removed from all {{Infobox Ethnic group}} infoboxes. Comments may be left on the Ethnic groups talk page. Ling.Nut 20:45, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New paragraph in 'Other' on possible relation of the Mi'kmaq to 15th Century Ming Dynesty maritime explorers

The salient portion reads: '...the Mi'kmaq on the east coast of Canada are fifteenth century descendants of Chinese explorers' . If so then one could reasonably conclude that there would be both genetic and linguistic similarites between Mi'kmaq's genome and language and those of the Chinese mariners. A cursory look shows no relationship to the Algonquin member language and Mandarin dialects. Has anyone done research in either area to validate Chiasson's conjectures?

[edit] History: Mohawk Contact

The history section talks of Mi'kmaq expansion into the Gaspé, saying "they were expanding from their Maritime base westward along the Gaspé Peninsula /St. Lawrence River at the expense of Iroquioian Mohawk tribes". There is no cited reference and I have to question the accuracy of the claim that it was at the expense of Iroquoian Mohawk tribes. Heading southwest along the lower St. Lawrence, today's Mi'kmaq would first meet the Maliseet then the Abenaki, who are both Algonquin language linguistic family members. Where the river narrows near Quebec, the north shore would include the Huron-Wendat Iroquois people.[1] Even looking at the Mohawk entry, historical maps show them to be located nowhere north of Montreal. I think this sentence should be changed unless someone can show a reliable reference.AnthroGael 15:18, 20 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re: New paragraph in 'Other' on possible relation...

That's the first time I've seen that theory. Rather amusing. I've seen the "Ancient Egyptian" one, because of a superficial resemblance of writing to hieroglyphics, but it's very superficial. We know where we came from ;). I wouldn't count that conjecture as being valid.

As for moving the article to Mìkmaq, I'd be in favour of it, since that's what the ' is for; however, leaving it as is is easier to type for some keyboard layouts.

SimonRaven (talk) 10:32, 23 February 2008 (UTC)