Talk:MF Doom

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[edit] MF DOOM

Throughout this article, "MF DOOM" is spelt as "MF Doom." His moniker is in capital letters, as mentioned in the song "All Caps." RealWingus 12:38, 12 July 2005 (UTC)

Changed all instances of "MF Doom" and "Doom" to "MF DOOM" as this is how Dumile wants his name to be referenced. This was mentioned in his song "All Caps" --Threatis 01:28, 13 July 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Possible Copyright violation

This article is largely stolen from this page: http://www.starpulse.com/Music/MF_Doom/Biography/

I think it may be that that site actually stole it from here, not the other way around aubrey 20:18, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Official Site

MF DOOM's myspace site is given here, but I think his official site is http://mfdoomsite.com/ However, this doesn't seem to be updated anymore, just wanted to throw that out there.

mfdoomsite.com is owned and operated by hiphopsite.com, and it's also not been touched since 2004. DOOM's myspace is official and continues to be updated. I think that's his "official" site more than anything. MarcelloRubini 22:43, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Nationality

If he was born in London wouldn't he be a British Hip Hop Artist? (in reference to American Hip Hop artist in Introduction) 12.25.217.139 18:21, 20 January 2006 (UTC) He raps in the states. He's American. Kinda like Slick Rick. -Rob

He's an American citizen (and has been one throughout the duration of his career), therefore I would catagorize him as an American artist. --(Mingus ah um 03:24, 16 May 2006 (UTC))

Mingus, do you know that he's an American citizen? As a long time follower of DOOM I believe he's not an American citizen. Aside from a Madvillain show in Toronto, Canada in 2004, he's not known to have ever performed outside of the U.S.A. A European tour in 2004 was cancelled and the reason cited on mfdoomsite.com was "passport/citizenship problems".

Correct me if i've read something wrong, but never performing outside the US to me is more of an indication that he would have citizenship rather than the other way round W guice 13:36, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

I think the reason is that he doesn't have a green card, so if he leaves he can't reenter the country legally. 85.166.239.43

His citizenship is up to speculation, but it's known that he was raised in the USA and that his entire career including all shows (except for one in Toronto) have taken place in USA. MarcelloRubini 04:03, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Music videos

Perhaps a Videos section at the bottom of the article is in order? My Favourite Ladies, for example. -WindFish 02:26, 2 October 2005 (UTC)

Well, that is his only video, I believe (besides ATHF, in which he didn't really appear), and both are pretty unremarkable. I don't think it's a necessity, but I wouldn't disagree to it. -The Hams 21:24, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
He has done many more videos, such as "Benzion Gum", "I Hear Voices", "?" and "Dead Bent". I think a video section would be good. -Gangstadane 17:15, 17 June 2006 (GMT)

Definately need a video section. So many good videos from DOOM. 'Mr. Clean' is a personal favorite -eq

Plus, he did a few videos when he was in KMD MrBlondNYC 15:21, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Merging

Plagiarism aside, this article is Doom, not his instrumental album. I'm going to remove the merge notation.--The Grza 05:32, 9 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] small edit

5% are by definition unIslamic so I corrected that

By your interpretation... After all, strict Sunnis and Shites would say the very same thing about a Sufi--if not each other. I'm not going to bother looking into whatever you changed, but, if the 5%ers consider themselves to be a Muslim movement, they are a Muslim movement. That's just the way it works. --(Mingus ah um 03:29, 16 May 2006 (UTC))

[edit] Pronounciation

If DOOM's surname is of South African origion it would more than likely be pronounced Doo-Mee-leh. The name is also similar to the zulu word for hello, Dumela.

of course DOOMulay is an Anglicized pronunciation/spelling... Wathiik 07:55, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Yep, agreed, but due to him having grown up in the US that is probably how he himself pronounces his name.

Yeah, he says "Doo-muh-lay" in the song El Chupa Nibre by DangerDoom on the album The Mouse & The Mask, and then again on El Chupa Nibre Remix by DangerDoom on the album Occult Hymn EP. It's doom-uh-lay. -The Hams 21:26, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

But on countless other songs, he pronunces it the American way. -Gangstadane 17:17, 17 June 2006 (GMT)

'doo-muh-lay' is the 'American' pronunciation. doo-mee-leh is the pronunciation of origin.

He also mentions it on DOOMSday, numerous times, where he clearly pronounces it doo-mah-lay. Guess it was never too much of a mystery.66.120.226.1 14:52, 5 March 2007 (UTC) ShinigamiDOOM

[edit] KMD

KMD involved three members: Subroc, Zev Luv X, and MC Onyx. Also, the anagram was recorded as "either/or" the two abbreviations, but in fact the meaning was changed at a certain point. I updated both items.

(Asher14 22:28, 4 March 2006 (UTC))

[edit] Discography

We can't talk about doom's commercial opportunities without mentioning his appearance on De La Soul's 2004 release. I added it.

We should also consider breaking this article into sections like Biography, Discography, Trivia, etc., like other artist pages are--Asher14 22:30, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

He's produced several tracks on the new Ghostface Killah album "Fishscale"

[edit] Nastrodoomus

Shouldn't the Nastrodoomus albums be removed since they were unofficial bootlegs? Just asking.

re: Well, if it is related to the topic, wouldn't it be better to keep it, but mention that it is unofficial? People interested in the topic can wonder what the deal is with the Nastrodoomus albums, informing them about it seems like useful for the article.--Key to the city 17:01, 22 June 2006 (UTC)

Nastradoomus was not made by MF DOOM or released by any of the record labels he's associated with. It was made by another DJ using Nas acappellas and MF DOOM instrumentals and released, if I remember correctly, by hiphopsite.com. To add Nastradoomus to the MF DOOM discography would be an invitation to add any MF DOOM bootleg, mix, or mash-up to the list - and there are many. It should not be on the discography.

IIRC Nastradoomus wasn't even made by one guy, it was by the hiphopsite.com community as a whole. aubrey 20:12, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] MF Meaning

"("MF" may stand for "metal face", or is otherwise widely accepted as standing for "Mad Flow") (MF Grimm/GM Grimm does not have a metal face)"

This information is incorrect. The MF in MF DOOM stands for Metal Face, as according to this interview: http://www.stonesthrow.com/madvillain/doom-metalsatin.html

Mad Flows is MF Grimm.

Is it common knowledge that he is making a play on the abbreviation for mofo? --Mikeazorin 01:56, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

I've always been partial to "mofo" (to put it politely) myself, and I think that it is one of the "unofficial" definitions, but the "official" definition is "Metal Face" --DestradoZero 08:13, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
It isn't Mother Fucker (hey, it's an encyclopedia). It's Metal Face. That's the only real definition. That's what it was created as and how it was intended. -The Hams 21:27, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

He also uses it as Metal Fingers on the Special Herbs collections. aubrey 20:08, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, he also uses Metal Fingers on the Ghostface Killah album Fishscale.

He's stated in an interview that Grimm is Mad Flows and he sees MF DOOM as "mother fucking DOOM," "metal face DOOM," and "metal fingers DOOM".

[edit] 3rd Base's Cactus Album

The Cactus Album wasn't released on Elektra, but rather on Def Jam.

if you see something wrong with this or any article, you should just go ahead and change it instead of writing about it on the talk page.

sounds like a job for me. yeah, The Gas Face wasn't on elektra. Wathiik 20:35, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

here's the link in case y'all wanna check: http://www.discogs.com/release/173103 Wathiik 20:38, 24 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Title

Wouldn't it be more useful to have this article at MF Doom, under Wikipedia:Naming conventions (common names)? He seems to be referred to as Doom (2.2 million google hits) much more often than Dumile (22,000 hits). Fl owerparty☀ 03:25, 28 May 2006 (UTC)

- No, I say Daniel Dumile, because he has many, many aliases (King Gheedora, King Ghidra, Zev Love X, Madvillain, Viktor Vaughn, the Supervillain, DOOM, MF DOOM, DangerDoom, and I'm probably missing a few) -The Hams 21:28, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
Agreed. He has so many aliases, "MF Doom" and all of his other names can just redirect here. MrBlondNYC 15:23, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

[edit] mask

Should it be mentioned that MF DOOM's mask is more or less the same mask that Russell Crowe wears in Gladiator? and that it looks nothing like the mask that Dr. Doom wears? and i think he started wearing the mask before Gladiator came out? djumbrosia 16:04, 3 June 2006

That seems like some good info to know. Go ahead and add it, dude. -The Hams 21:29, 12 June 2006 (UTC)

it is the mask from 'Gladiator'. 'helmet of Maximus' is the actual name for the style. DOOM did, however, wear a Dr. Doom style mask before his current one. -Eq

Somebody removed my thing about MF DOOM's mask being designed by Lord Scotch http://www.last.fm/music/MF+Doom/+wiki Look under the paragraph birth of MF DOOM.

[edit] MF DOOM vs DangerDoom

Does anyone know if DangerDoom is a seperate character than MF DOOM or if DangerDoom is just the name of the collaborative work itself?

Dangerdoom is the name of the "team" of MF Doom and DJ Danger Mouse - similar to how MF Doom and Madlib go by the name Madvillain when they work together. SubSeven 00:36, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

However, in some songs DangerDoom is also referred to as a person. aubrey 20:14, 18 August 2006 (UTC)

eh? which ones??? W guice 13:40, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

The Master Shake and Minoriteam skits on T.M.A.T.M. and Occult Hymn. It's just a play on the "villian" moniker. D4S 18:18, 29 March 2007 (UTC)

Dangerdoon is a seperate character, it is the mouse with the mask on.

[edit] Birthday

What is the source for the January 6th, 1971 birthday which is used in this article? I believe the year is correct but not the date.

[edit] spelling in KMD

is it properly Zev Luv X or Zev Love X? or both? does it alternate? should we make it standard thruout the article? W guice 15:25, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

It alternates, but it is more commonly spelled with Love. I'll fix it now. --Mikeazorin 02:49, 28 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Name of page to be MF DOOM

Why isn't the name of this article MF DOOM instead of Daniel Dumile. I'm pretty sure he is more well known by MF DOOM than his real name. BishopTutu 04:28, 19 December 2006 (UTC)

If he's most famously known as "MF DOOM" then the article name should be MF DOOM. ♣ Klptyzm ^{Chat wit me § Contributions} ♣ 06:30, 30 January 2007 (UTC)

Except he goes by wide array of pseudonyms, both individually and as part of collaborations; determining which one is the most famous would probably be a fool's errand, while his real name is a constant. It's much simpler this way isn't it? Driller thriller 21:07, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

Hmmm, well, the article says otherwise... ♣ Klptyzm ^{Chat wit' me § Contributions} ♣ 06:10, 5 February 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, I see your point, but the moment this page is moved some bright spark will insist that Wikipedia doesn't care about how Dumile wants to be known and the page'll be moved to MF Doom and then no-one will be happy... Driller thriller 21:02, 7 February 2007 (UTC)

I'm happy for the name to stay as Daniel Dumile. The article explains clearly how he's used his aliases - I see no problem Powelldinho 21:33, 15 March 2007 (UTC)

The name's fine...before it was at MF Doom...I think it's better as Daniel Dumile.67.71.189.85 11:00, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

I also think it should be MF DOOM. Other more famous people whose names are listed on wikipedia under the famous stage name: Ringo Starr, Sting, RZA, GZA, Ol' Dirty Bastard, Wavy Gravy. None of these people have had their names legally changed, and some of them (RZA, ODB) are known under other names as well.MarcelloRubini 22:41, 27 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Rewrite/POV

I tried to go through and make some changes in the text for the first half of the article because it seemed very POV to me, and not very encylopedic. Also, a section was copied almost verbatim to the allmusic.com biography, which I've rewritten and referenced now. The rest of the article still seems very POV and there are some non-notable things in there. Another concern is the huge external link list. This needs to be trimmed to a couple links that follow the WP:EL guidelines. CanbekEsen 04:29, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Additionally, the "Style" section is still unencyclopedic and POV, in my opinion. Also, it is unreferenced. Thousandrobots (talk) 04:34, 5 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Example Dumile Lines

Why was this section removed, was there any actual reason, the section gave excellent examples of Dumile's style.

I actually moved them to the WikiQuote page as I thought it'd be better there. The WikiQuote link is in the external links section. CanbekEsen 19:55, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Naw, bring back the style section. Actual examples of lyrics is very different than an explanation of his style, and MF DOOM's style and lyrics is about 70% of what makes him distinctive from other rappers. You just took a pretty bare page and made even more bare. Bad edit. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jonathan B. Hall (talk • contribs) 05:20, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] External links

This page is about Daniel Dumile. Although he is associated with acts such as Madvillian and DANGERDOOM, they shouldn't be listed here, but instead at the Madvillian and DANGERDOOM pages. Also, a link to his complete discography isn't needed here, because there's a whole other page with all of Dumile's works. CanbekEsen 19:55, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Yo, im a wikipedia nooby, but this article is fine, and all those links are related and relevant, please stop trying to change things, because your just cutting back on info. The discography page contains all official material Daniel Dumile has done and associated with, including songs he has appeared on.—Preceding unsigned comment added by ArrowRoot (talk • contribs)

Let's try this again. Daniel Dumile's article itself should contain links to things that are related to Dumile. This, however, does not mean you should link everything related to Dumile. Madvillian, DANGERDOOM, and Dumile's discography have their own articles, thus, such links should be listed at those pages. The individual articles of the ones listed above are already alluded to throughout the Dumile article, so you do not need extra external links for articles you already have, thus, there is no "cutting back on info". I do suggest you take a peak at links normally to be avoided and m:External links. CanbekEsen 01:01, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Well I disagree, so if im someone new to Doom, and i wanna check the official sites, i gotta click on DangerDoom, go to that page, then go down to the links and click it... naww, best to keep it on one page, cause its one guy. It keeps it less confusing to have it all on the same page, so people new to DOOM can see its all one guy. Also, its less than 10 links, is it that big of a deal to have them at the bottom of the page? I dont think so...—Preceding unsigned comment added by ArrowRoot (talk • contribs)

Say what? If someone is new to DOOM, how would they know about his collaborations? DANGERDOOM is DOOM and Danger Mouse, not just DOOM. Madvillian is DOOM and Madlib, again, not just DOOM. That's why those links are linked on their respective pages. CanbekEsen 08:31, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

You think i dont know that? This page is about Daniel Dumile it should include links to all and everything related and official, not just the MF DOOM sites. —Preceding unsigned comment added by ArrowRoot (talk • contribs)

Yeah, there are already links on this page to the Wikipedia pages of everything related to him. Daniel Dumile is MF DOOM, The Super Villain, Viktor Vaughn, King Geedorah, Metal Fingers, Metal Fingered Villain, and Zev Love X. Yes, Madvillian and DANGERDOOM are related, but as I've said several times already, they have their own WP pages and those links should be listed at those pages. CanbekEsen 00:37, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

They can have links on those pages too, but this article is about him as a whole, is it so wrong to have 7 links to his official pages at the bottom? I think the more info the better. Whats the harm done if they are there?—Preceding unsigned comment added by ArrowRoot (talk • contribs)

Did you even read this? Wikipedia pages are not link repositories. Just because it's related to the subject matter does not mean you have to link it. I've brought this up on the WP:BIO talk page at Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Biography#Daniel_Dumile. CanbekEsen 19:11, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

No, i dont need to bother to read that, this is about 7 links, that are all related, and have been here for a while now, now because you dont like it, your going to remove them all? It not a big deal.—Preceding unsigned comment added by ArrowRoot (talk • contribs)

I have nothing against it. That is how Wikipedia works. It's not my view, it's just that Wikipedia have policies, and it encourages users to work by it. Just because you can add it doesn't mean you should. This is an encyclopedia that should contain information on the subject, and that means whatever is in these links should have a part in the article. Saying you don't need to read what I've linked for you means you are ignoring whatever policies have been set. You professed you were new to Wikipedia, and I believed it would've been helpful to shed light on some things for you by linking m:External links and WP:External_links#Links_normally_to_be_avoided as they are helpful guides to editing on Wikipedia.

“

This article is about Daniel Dumile as a whole, not just as MF DOOM, it does a great job of showing the fact that he has many Aliases, and i believe links to his Official sites related to his many Aliases are appropriate for the page. 7 links is not a farm at all, and his myspace sites are basicly his official sites. Why are you throwing such a fuss about 7 links, all to related, official, sites about him?

”

Do you not understand simple arithmetic? Daniel Dumile = MF DOOM. Madlib + Daniel Dumile = Madvillian. Danger Mouse + Daniel Dumile = DANGERMOUSE. The article Daniel Dumile concerns Daniel Dumile. As I've said many times before, Wikipedia prefers that there not be a large external link section, and that it should contain links directly related to the subject. Want to learn about his related stuff? There's an "associated acts" section right there in his infobox that links to the Wikipedia articles that Dumile is associated to. I wish not to continue this argument, which is why I'd posted it on Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Biography#Daniel_Dumile. I hope that other users will share their opinions so we can come to a consensus, or at the very least comprimise. By the by, you can sign your posts by typing four tildes (~~~~) at the end of your message to mark your message instead of using the {{unsigned}} template. CanbekEsen 04:37, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

What does arithmetic have to do with Daniel Dumile? These links do have a part in the article, Daniel Dumile being part of/and associated with these groups. You Dont seem to understand the fact, example: that Daniel Dumile has an official website www.dangerdoom.com shared with Danger Mouse. And this article is about Him. By the way, I dont see you over at Danger Mouse's Wikipedia article with the same topic, as his page also links to the Dangerdoom site, and also has more External Links!! Would you call that a farm too? Why are you really here with this nonsense?, seems to me you just want to stir stuff up. The article is all fine and dandy, then you come rolling through, removing links and wanting a complete rewrite of the article. Im sorry, but thats just wack. Keep it chill man, please. —Preceding unsigned comment added by ArrowRoot (talk • contribs)

You clearly do not understand how Wikipedia works. Sorry, but I will not argue with your ignorance. CanbekEsen 11:33, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

And You clearly do not understand how common sense works.—Preceding unsigned comment added by ArrowRoot (talk • contribs)

[edit] Word Up

Yo on the real, this bio is basically the whole story. Ya'll taking bout changing this bio-- for what? Because it lacks a few citaions? All I read was the raw deal, straight up, and accurate. That ish is comprehensive and informative. Keep it real. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 75.73.236.206 (talk) 01:14, 5 April 2007 (UTC).

WP:NPOV and WP:ATT CanbekEsen 01:03, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Agreed —Preceding unsigned comment added by ArrowRoot (talk • contribs)

[edit] Fake Show Accusations

I just read this and thought I'd check into it and looked around the web after I noticed there was no reference. I ended up finding a source and thought I would site this section, but realized I didn't know how to. So here is some corroborating evidence:

http://blogs.sfweekly.com/shookdown/2007/08/mf_doom_fucks_sf_wtf_went_down.php http://events.contracostatimes.com/events/show/61721421-Mf-Doom http://www.soulstrut.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=crates&Number=932807&page=0&fpart=all

This is totally unproven and appears to be the result of one angry fan. This is not corroborating evidence, it's only evidence of rumor. There are in fact videos of DOOM on this tour, all of them are him and do not sound like they were prerecorded. MarcelloRubini 21:26, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

As far as im concerned this is proof watching the video of "him" blatently shows him at least lip syncing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.74.215.134 (talk) 20:41, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

After attending one such show it seems as though the performer was either lip syncing or using a backing track. The claims brought against DOOM are not only made by "one angry fan", but what appears to be several fans as well as an opening DJ. Videos from Rock The Bells significantly differ from the sound and style of DOOM's live performances in previous live recordings. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.211.192.163 (talk) 08:12, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:DOOM today.jpg

Image:DOOM today.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot 07:08, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Personal Life

lacks any citations, and seems to be totally original research. fixxx? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.71.16.206 (talk) 04:17, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] One sentence copywrite needed

[1] that link explains -- anonymous ip —Preceding unsigned comment added by 128.138.6.58 (talk) 17:00, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] MF Doom's relationship with MF Grimm?

I'm surprised that this article doesn't discuss MF Doom's relationship with MF Grimm, which started off with musical and personal collaboration but has grown into a fierce rivalry, culminating in Grimm dissing MF Doom with the song "Book of Daniel" on his recent triple CD, American Hunger. Derekawesome (talk) 21:10, 16 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Article title SHOULD be MF DOOM

The fact that the vast majority of his branding is as MF Doom (including on collaborations with others, Ghostface Killah being one of the more notable ones), and not as Daniel Dumile, the title should be MF DOOM. MC Chris isn't known primarily as Chris Ward, Cee-Lo isn't known primarily as Thomas DeCarlo Callaway, Bono isn't known primarily as Paul David Hewson...the list goes on and on. He's known as MF DOOM more than anything, including Daniel Dumile. It needs to be changed. DestradoZero 20:06, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

I agree. It is difficult since he performs under different names and in collaboration with others under different names, but for his own solo work he is best known as MF Doom, so that should probably be the name of the article. Theshibboleth (talk) 21:36, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Yes, I agree. (Still.) But it should be 'MF Doom', rather than all caps, which I assume is just a style thing. Flowerparty^☀ 22:27, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

How would we go about changing the title of the article, then? The sooner, the better. DestradoZero 14:50, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

It's moved. I'll move the discography page too to match. Flowerparty^☀ 18:28, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Assy McGee?

DOOM recently did some voice work as a character in [adult swim]'s Assy McGee. His other [adult swim] work is mentioned, so should this?--Sherwood-Nightshade (talk) 05:05, 10 June 2008 (UTC)