Talk:Mezquita de Córdoba

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[edit] Removed irrelevant comment =

"... the Christian cathedral

was surpressed, an occurence common during muslim occupations of Christian lands (e.g. Hagia Sophia and the Basillica of St. John in Syria, and numerous churches in Kosovo, Cyprus, Palestine, and Irag in mordern times)." It's a pity people use Wikipedia as a soapbox for political remarks. I do not think many people would agree with calling Istanbul, Syria, Palestine or Iraq "Christian lands". What about the use of the Giralda in Sevilla by Christians after the 13th century ? But more importantly: is this relevant ? I know Islamophobia is all the fashion right now but please, could Wikipedia remain a neutral reference work ?85.90.69.35 08:17, 3 July 2007 (UTC)

I'm curious, is there some specific meaning to "was surpressed"? It seems like a poor choice of words. Was it forbidden to enter? Was it razed to the ground? Something else? A cathedral can't really be supressed. I don't know the answer, so I won't edit it, but someone should. --71.141.117.26 (talk) 07:24, 2 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Mezquita

What is the meaning of the word "Mezquita"? I have heard it is derived from the word mosquito nest , and that muslims of the time should be swatted like mosquitos? worth looking into?

No. Mezquita means mosque. You've been talking to the wrong people. Chaikney 12:46, 7 January 2007 (UTC)
LOL Probably they were just joking with you. Mezquita does mean Mosque in Spanish. --Fantastic4boy 05:23, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

That is actually correct, in terms of the etymology of the word, but in modern day Spanish it merely means a mosque (incidentally, the English word was also derived from this mosquito swatting mentality the Christians had in that era towards the Muslims). The-pessimist (talk) 00:31, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Can any of you document that "mosquito" pseudo-etymology? I sincerely doubt it. For me it's obvious (Arabic) Mazjid > (Spanish) Mezquita > (English) Mosque (with possible intermediate words maybe in Mozarabic, Occitan, French and whatever). --Sugaar (talk) 11:39, 3 January 2008 (UTC)
I'm going to have to correct myself re. the English origin of the word. It would seem it comes from French "mosquée" and this one from Italian "moschea" and Sicilian "muschea". Still they seem to be mere deformations of "masjid".
In Spanish hardly any word can end in "-t" or "-d" naturally so the addition of an "-a" (treated as femenine) is only natural (masjid > mezquit + a).
It's different, it seems to me, from "mosquito" that is the Spanish masculine for "little fly" ("mosca" = fly + "-ito" = masc. diminutive; "little fly" is actually said "mosquita", fem., as in the expression "mosquita muerta": a woman without character). --Sugaar (talk) 11:50, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] No longer a muslim place of worship

I think it should be noted somewhere that this is no longer a muslim place of worship as it is the property of the Roman Catholic Church.

I would question the above. It is a fact that a Christian Cathedral built within a Mosque would not allow Muslims to pray here?

Yes it is, and the same applies to churches which have been conquered by islamic countries such as Hagia Sofia in Istanbul.

Nope Hagia Sofia is a museum and not a mosque anymore. Mayeb you can find better examples but this one is not pertinent. --Sugaar (talk) 09:36, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Firstly, Muslims can worship wherever we want; almost literally anywhere which is reasonably clean - so the "mosque/mezquita" easily satisfies that generic requirement. Secondly, by definition, Muslims are the ones that perform "Muslim prayers" - no one else. Hence, it is only the Muslims' view that matters as to where they can pray, and they believe that once a place has been declared a mosque, regardless of what you do to it, it can never be anything else. Others may well argue that it is not a mosque any longer, and you/they are free to do so - but it will not have any affect upon a Muslim's belief as to whether a place is a house of prayer or not. —Preceding unsigned comment added by The-pessimist (talk • contribs) 00:37, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

Whatever (that's POV if anything is). The fact is that the Cordoba Mosque belongs to the Catholic Church since many centuries ago and they actually forbid Muslim (or any non-Catholic) rites inside, we like it or not. (Note: don't take me wrong, I think it should be a secular historical building, public property, and not belong to any religious entity nor be anymore used for cult of any sort. The example of Hagia Sofia/Aya Sofia is the way to go, in my opinion). --Sugaar (talk) 11:56, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] the mihrab?

the article mentions that the mihrab doesn't point towards mecca; where does it point? Kit 03:34, 10 March 2006 (UTC)

If I remember well, to the City of Damascus, where the Omeya dinasty came from. All the mosques in the Muslim Spain were oriented the same way.

It does point to mecca, however without scientific measuring equipment it would have been a guestimate. NB

Or the St. Nicholas Cathedral in Nicosia, Cyprus which is now the Lala Mustafa Pasha Mosque. If I'm not mistaken, Muslims just can't have a congragrated prayer and have sermons there but they can just pray in small numbers. I remember this one Indian/Pakistani man (forgot his name) in the past that prayed in the Mezquita and he didn't mention about anyone stopping him. Yeah, I do think it's still strange though calling a cathedral "Mosque" - Muslims don't ring the bell to summon people to prayer but rather have muezzins to call out to others to congregrate and pray. During my visit to Cordoba, Spain, I remember seeing the Mezquita from far and was saying to a Muslim friend that he can pray there, thinking it was a mosque. However, as we approach closer, we notice that a church bell on the Giralda Tower (which was once a minaret) was calling out people to prayer, and when we got into "mosque" we notice that people were singing hymns and there was a crucifix. We were like - what is going on here? We felt tricked. It reminds me of the Mosque Church in Hungary, after seeing that Cordoban cathedral. --Fantastic4boy 05:18, 22 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Article name: "Mezquita" or "Cordoba mosque"?

I'm a little puzzled by the article's name. "Mezquita" is just the Spanish term for "mosque" and therefore there are as many "mezquitas" as "mosques" are in the World. In Spanish the building is termed "la mezquita de Córdoba" (i.e. "Cordoba mosque"). Shouldn't this phrase "Cordoba mosque" be used in English as well? --Sugaar (talk) 09:40, 18 November 2007 (UTC)

Maybe we can call it "the Mezquita (Mosque) with a church bell and crucifix". Does that sound contradictory or inflammatory or is it okay? --203.15.122.35 (talk) 08:06, 22 November 2007 (UTC)
I assume that's a provocation that doesn't deserve any reply but anyhow, I noticed in French is called "Great Cordoba Mosque". In any case "Mezquita" alone seems meaningless because it just says "Mosque". --Sugaar (talk) 09:22, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

It would probably not please certain people if the Great Mosque of Cordoba was named as such (or similar) on Wikipedia; as they will probably be questioning why is it still so popular in the hearts of people all over the world as a Mosque, although it is has been in Christian hands for 800 of its 1200 year existence? —Preceding unsigned comment added by The-pessimist (talk • contribs) 00:49, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

It doesn't matter much wether it's popular or not, I think. What matters is WP:NAME and the reality. We can't build an encyclopedia based on what is popular, that would not be serious. In any case, "Mezquita" alone is misleading. --Sugaar (talk) 04:44, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

I agree with the first comment. The title of this article is wrong. The "mezquita of cordoba" means simply the mosque of cordoba, it is not called "Mezquita" as such.--Guzman ramirez (talk) 12:41, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Wigwam?

This is the opening sentence: "The construction of the wigwam started in approximately sixth century B.C" What is a wigwam doing in early medieval Europe? I thought wigwams were a structure specific to the indigenous people of North America —Preceding unsigned comment added by Provocateur (talk • contribs) 04:11, 2 December 2007 (UTC)