Talk:MEU(SOC) pistol
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[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:Meusoc86.gif
Image:Meusoc86.gif is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.
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If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images uploaded after 4 May, 2006, and lacking such an explanation will be deleted one week after they have been uploaded, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.
BetacommandBot 04:44, 16 September 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Different versions
How many different versions are there of the MEU(SOC) pistol? I'm guessing that the one pictured is the original; it doesn't have Pachmayr grips like most of the others I have seen. Also, newer versions have front cocking serrations, a new hammer, and Novak sights. Possibly a new section could be set up for this? Because currently, it isn't very clear in text what defines an MEU(SOC) pistol. Hayden120 (talk) 07:28, 25 December 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Verification of MEU(SOC) Pistol Image Request
I don't believe that this is a MEU(SOC) issued pistol. Off of the top of my head, the mainspring housing should be flat and the grips are wrong. More information is available at http://www.forcerecon.com/strongmenarmed.htm. This is an article by Pat Rogers called "Strong Men Armed, The Marine Corps 1st Force Reconnaissance Company". It refers to all of the older style pistols, prior to the Springfield Armory Loaded Full-Size MC Operator acquisition. The relevant text:
While the standard USMC pistol is the M9, those in the operational platoons use the MEU (SOC) pistol. Based on a modified M1911 pistol, the MEU (SOC) has been in the Marine Corps since the Marine Expeditionary Unit (Special Operations Capable) {MEU (SOC)} stood up, in 1985. (The Marines MEU(SOC) Pistol, Tactical Shooter, June, 1999.)
The proven single action design in .45 caliber, and modified by the Precision Weapons Shop (PWS) at Quantico, is an excellent secondary weapon for the Marines in the Company.
The frame is stripped GI, and after inspection the feed ramp is polished. The slide is Springfield Armory or Caspian, the barrel Bar-Sto, and the internal parts all commercial. A high visibility rear sight, (manufactured in house at PWS) and high visibility front sight are added. The pistol has an ambidextrous thumb safety, and a flat mainspring housing with a lanyard loop. The entire pistol is de-horned and Pachmayer stocks fitted. There is none of the checkering (so favored by artistes) on this pistol.
The Videcki trigger is adjusted to a pull of 3.5-5 pounds.
The pistol is issued with seven Wilson-Rogers magazines. A Sure Fire H1OR Light Module is mounted, but PWS feels that as this is not a fitted item, it may be causing barrel link breakage. The operators rightfully feel that they must have a light on the pistol, so this housing will remain until a better solution is in place.
During the course of a workup/ deployment, the operator will put a lot of rounds through his pistol. It is not uncommon for the pistols to come back with 80,000+ rounds fired. The pistol will be returned to the PWS at Quantico for a rebuild. Generally, all parts save the frame (which is a U.S. Government frame last manufactured in 1945) are discarded. The frame is inspected, and if within specs, rebuilt again. There are some frames that may have had as many as 500,000 rounds fired from them.
The OIC of the Precision Weapons Shop, CWO5 Ken Davis, is convinced (as are many others) that the 1911 is the only pistol that can stand up to this use.
We certainly have the right gun for the right job.
If there is one thing wrong with this pistol it is the fact that there are not enough of them. Realistically, each operator should have two. One for training and another to go to war (of course, the same could be said for all of their weapons).
A product improved MEU (SOC) pistol is in the works. (The USSOCOM Mk23 ModO was briefly looked at. However the large size of this gun and other issues render it less than desirable as a secondary weapon). Though the basic pistol will remain the same, a new barrel and hardened drop in parts will replace those that must be hand fitted. This will permit maintenance to be performed at the company level rather than being evacuated.
Forward slide serrations and a memory bump grip safety will be added. The PWS is currently looking at a new light for the pistol. All of the new guns will have a MilStdl9l3 rail welded to the dust cover. Several new lights and Laser Aiming Modules (LAMS) are being evaluated at this time.
Originally, the Company used leather holsters from PWL but leather and water are a lot like oil and water. They now use Safariland Models 3004, 3005, or the newer 6004. Each operator has two of these Kydex holsters, one for the MEU (SOC) Pistol with the light, and one without. The pistol magazine pouches are the Eagle DMP-FB.
The Gem-Tech lanyard replaced the field expedient telephone cords previously used. This purpose built pistol lanyard has one thing that others don’t—it has a break-away feature.
Shortly after they were issued, the CH 46E carrying 5th Pit. crashed into the sea off Pt. Loma, CA. The pistol carried by SSgt Mark Schmidt was dislodged from his holster, and caught on something in the rapidly sinking helo. The breakaway feature broke, and he was the last man to escape from the bird.
There are 60 MEU (SOC) pistols in the Company. They are authorized 110. They should have 300.
A simple request to Pat Rogers would likely grant Wikipedia an accurate image, for use. As I believe Pat is the gentleman that wrote up the requisition paperwork for the original pistols, this may be the best chance. Grumblepunk (talk) 19:24, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
The arched mainspring housing is still preferred by those of us who don't have little girly hands. Those Gunner Grips became standard issue after Pat's article was written. I could ask Pat if he'd be willing to upload a better picture.--Mike Searson (talk) 19:32, 5 February 2008 (UTC)
Works for me and I appreciate the clarification. Are you clearing up most of the MEU(SOC) info on Wiki? This article is all over the place and it's hard to tell where the MEU(SOC) 1911 stops and the MCSOCOM ICQB Kimber begins. Or why the ICQB is given as much real estate as it is, on this page. Grumblepunk (talk) 00:17, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
As much as I'd like to..I'm being pulled all over the place on Wiki. I think the Kimber ICQB deserves a mention, but may need its own article. The hardest thing writing about the actual pistol is the evolutions, etc which varied between East and West Coast requirements. Gun Magazines tend to focus on what is commercially available or why this is the trend, etc. The best published texts are also dated (Pat's article, mention in Tom Clancy's Marine!, etc. I'll help however I can, though. --Mike Searson (talk) 00:25, 6 February 2008 (UTC)
