Talk:Methylene blue

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Contents 1 Colour? 2 Methylene Blue 3 Pranks? 4 Warning 5 This article mentioned 6 Coloured pigments in methylene blue 7 Pranks - moved from article 8 Sklera? 9 Methylene Blue - an observation 10 Correct Structure?

[edit] Colour?

From the sources I've been checking out there seems to be a conflict of information on what colour methylthionine chloride actually is. Having never handled it myself, I can't be sure. From some sources, Wikipedia included, I see 'distinct blue' colour which fades with dropping oxygen levels (makes sense given the name) but I also see consistent sources claiming it is dark green such as this one. Am I missing something obvious here? T-Dawg 14:58, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

I've recently used methylene blue in a concentration of 2g/lt and obtained a dark blue solution. However solid methylene blue crystals are dark green. Thus I believe that the answer to your question would be: methylene blue powder/crystals are green, but they yield a blue solution when dissolved in water. Hope this helps. Berserker79 15:53, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

I too can confirm that at a concentration of 0.001% in distilled water, a methylene blue solution appears dark blue. Also, absorption maximum for methylene blue is 601nm, incase anyone doing some spectrophotometry needs to know (I don't know if this tidbit is important enough to go in the actual article, so i'll put it here and let someone else decide). Ta! --mark

[edit] Methylene Blue

At what temperature and/or pressure will it take to oxidize methylene blue?

It's not a question of temperature or pressure - it depends on the chemical (redox) environment. An oxidant (like oxygen, or potassium permanganate) will oxidize it and turn it blue. A reductant (like 2-mercaptoethanol) will reduce it and turn it colorless. Why the question? Ignoramibus 05:24, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Pranks?

Why is there a prank listed in the article under uses? Firstly, it's topical, generally pointless/useless, and completely uncited content. Secondly, it's somewhat unsettling given the warning note under the medicine uses category. Not to mention that Methylene Blue is a WHMIS class D division 2 compound, and shouldn't be used as a prank on anyone at any volume regardless of it's purification. Whoever added this appears to condone potentially hazardous acts -- plz keep this sort of thing to your blog. Imho, it's really just disrespectful and stupid... even for Biochemist standards :P --mark

Well, I've got to agree with you about that "Pranks" section. I never went ahead to remove it because I thought it was just me who thought that stuff sounded stupid/dangerous (I tend to be a little overcautious with anything chemical...). As soon as I find some time I'll check that paragraph again and see if there's anything useful to save, then remove it. BTW, that info you mentioned about the methylene blue absorption sounds useful, you should add it to the article. Berserker79 07:02, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

Concerning this 'WARNING Methylene Blue is known to increase CNS leves ...'. I would like to know the references this is based on, because I have recently published about this and want to know if the Au of those comments has refs I am unaware of. It may well be a prescient warning. I shall be publishing more about this soon.Ken Gillman 23:36, 20 September 2006 (UTC)

I think it is important to have a paragraph about the prank, because if I hadn't read this just now and had blue urine one day, the first thing I would do is look it up on Wikipedia. Seriously. subasd 17:19, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Nothing wrong with a pranks sections but that is is comparable in length to the treatment section perhaps shows some problem with priorities or sense of proportion. --Gak 21:08, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

I vote to keep the pranks sections. The mere description of a behavior on Wikipedia is in no sense an endorsement of that activity. And the fact is, dosing unsuspecting colleagues with methylene blue (at relatively innocuous levels) has a long and dubious history among chemists and biochemists. Ignoramibus 03:34, 27 October 2006 (UTC)

Although in preserving educational objectiveness, leaving the "pranks" section in is justifiable; but a special note of caution should be given to the potential side-effects and hazards of ingestion/ injections with methylene blue. Methylene blue is notorious for exacerbating poor renal function, even leading to renal failure. A hemolytic anemia is also a well-defined side-effect of methylene blue. Clear contraindications of methylene blue include renal insufficiency. Methylene blue is also known to cause dizziness, severe nausea and vomiting, cough, and very rarely reported encephalopathy. For a list of the contraindications and potential serious side effects of methylene blue, go to UpToDate and view drug information for methylene blue. I have added a table with the known adverse effects of methylene blue with references citations. Xopusmagnumx 22:26, 27 August 2007

The claim made in the pranks section is false. I'm in the process of an experiment upon myself with the goal of staining the sclera of my eyes blue (think Fremen) by ingesting methylene blue. As I didn't have the foresight to buy a box of empty pills, I started the experiment by drinking a solution. This is some nasty stuff. It tastes not unlike the quinine in tonic water. It would surely be noticed if it were present in any significant amount in a drink. For my metabolism I need about 60 mg for any color to appear in my urine. That amount ruins nearly any sized drink, and the most concentrated 60mg solution possible without burning one's throat is about two tablespoons. I know Wikipedia's policy on original research denies my viewpoint any authority, but I believe the claim made in the pranks section is patently false. (p.s. see also the comments 71.165.9.14 made on this talk page) RW 06:45, 5 October 2007 (UTC)

Looking back in the edit history I found a source for the claim. ([1]) "Put a couple of cc's of methylene blue in a coke/coffee/dark colored drink. The next time the person has to use the restroom, surprise!!! blue urine." Notice it says "a couple of cc's", not "a few drops". Also it is presented as an idea, not as an account of an actual experience. The file has circulated around boards under the humor category, notice the lapses in capitalization. Specifically, I dispute the claims that "a few drops[...]sufficed", that "the stain's color was masked", and that the taste is "fairly faint." RW 17:39, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

Remember that the taste of people differ. A taste described as fairly faint by someone who is a non-taster might taste horrid by someone who is a supertaster. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supertaster. It might be possible to get a non-taster to drink a lot more than a few drops. Also, not all bitter sensations are even registered by all people, the bitter taste in orangepeels for instance. However, I still would not want to see this prank done to anyone. There is no telling how certain people might react to this compound. There might be an accidental poisoning instead of a prank. /Mikael Isaksson - Not logged in. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.233.136.234 (talk) 14:39, 10 October 2007 (UTC)

I suggest this revision:

In the human body, methylene blue is highly stable; if ingested, it resists the stomach's acidic environment as well as the many hydrolytic enzymes present. The kidneys quickly filter it out. Chemists and biochemists, as a prank, can add methylene blue to coffee, cola, or another dark beverage. ([2]) (The minimum effective amount is disputed.) Within a few hours, the prank victim's kidneys remove the methylene blue, which changes the urine's color. Small methylene blue amounts cause faint green or blue colors; larger amounts cause a deeper blue color. If one uses small methylene blue amounts, the prank is fairly harmless .

I excised the bit about the liver because there is no need to mention it if it is "not significant". I removed or vagued some of the unsupported claims, put everything in present-tense, and replaced the tedious "his or her" with "the". Why not reword it simply saying that when significant amounts of methylene blue are ingested, blue urine results? (*That* fact is not disputed) That's the point of the "Prank" anecdote anyway, isn't it? Some feedback, please. RW 18:05, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

The original version of the pranks section was contributed by 168.103.161.121, a Coloradan who had a solid 5 edits under his belt, and hasn't contributed since 2006 April 8. RW 18:44, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

There is information on Wikipedia under Whipped-Cream Charger related to its dissociative use - Certainly not what I use my Whippet for - so how is this any different? The facts should just be present. It is information. When we start to decide whether or not the information should be presented because of what the information is, then we are entering into an entirely different area. We are then not deciding how to present the most correct information in the best way, we are deciding if we should really give people that information because of what they might do with it. I may not be right or agreed with, but it is my opinion. Bad S Mini —Preceding unsigned comment added by Bad S Mini (talk • contribs) 04:11, 14 November 2007 (UTC)

I've copied the candidate version from this talk page to the main page, preserving the references that others dug up. Hopefully this helps. RW (talk) 18:43, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Warning

This warning may actually be quite prescient, but without any indication of the sources it is based on is of limited use or assistance. It is probably something of an over generalisation, and somewhat imprecise. The only circumstance in which methylene blue is likely to be dangerous in patients is when it is infused intravenously in large doses. As far as I am aware this is only done for the purpose of highlighting the parathyroid tissues during thyroidectomy, in order to avoid damaging them. The doses used are in the region of five to 10 milligrams per kilogram body weight, infused just before and during surgery. At such doses it appears Clear that it has various relevant pharmacological effects in humans, although from my research these appear incompletely documented and partially understood. It would appear to be a significant monoamine oxidase inhibitor, and that means it maybe capable of producing serious, and even fatal, serotonin toxicity if combined with any drug that has significant potency as a serotonin reuptake inhibitor. My publication referred to above [3] has references relevant to this, and further material is, and/or will be very soon, available on my website. Assistants in understanding the chemistry of this from those with appropriate knowledge would be most useful because patients may die as a result of imperfect understanding and knowledge concerning this. It may be of interest for others to know that in the brief interval of two weeks since my publication came on line, and since I added a note here, I have received two reports of SerotoninToxicity involving methylene blue. It is beginning to look as though it is significant issue that has hitherto been unrecognised. Wiki people can make a real contribution to patient care and safety, please communicate your information, and try to give original references wherever possible.Ken Gillman 00:40, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Also, Methlylene Blue can be dangerous to people with the G6PD genetic variant. c.f http://www.atsdr.cdc.gov/csem/nitrate/no3treatment_management.html Basically, it may cause your blood cells to explode. About 400 million people, mostly in regions where malaria is rampant, have evolved this genetic protection against malaria. So this can be a very dangerous "prank". —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.143.141.250 (talk) 18:50, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] This article mentioned

I know this is not a big deal, but this article was used as a source for a cre.ations.net article on how to make you urine blue. Delta Tango • Talk 23:54, 27 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Coloured pigments in methylene blue

I have searched all over for the coloured pigments that make mathylene blue have its blue colour, can anyone tell me what they are? or even add it into the article itself because it would be very helpful if someone could.

Jaxx_77 13:04, 2 February 2007 (UTC) (The closer to the blinding light you come, the darker the shadows that are bourne behind you...In the shadows I will lurk, for I will never be just a memory and in this world of darkness and light, I will be the darkness and you can be the light)

There are no coloured pigments in methylene blue − it is a pure substance. It is the methylene blue molecule itself that is responsible for the blue colour observed.

Ben 19:51, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Pranks - moved from article

Note by a user: I bought some from an industrial chemical supply company and used it on myself and a roommate to evaluate it's use as a prank substance. A single 10 mg dose tasted pretty bad whether consumed in milk or soda, and very noticably discolored both. This gave the urine a decent green color for about 2 days. We eventually stepped up to 75 mg, which we have not exceeded, as this will give the urine a dark blue color about 12 hours after consumption, fading off through the shades of green for the next 3 days. Amount of coloring in the urine is darker the less frequently one urinates, as this gives more time for the kidneys to do their work, so the morning is generally darkest. Our preferred dosage of 50 mg tastes extremely bad sprinkled on a brownie, tucked in a marshmellow, or stirred into a liquid, and will dye the mouth, teeth, lips, and tongue blue for a few hours (regardless of brushing). It is our conclusion that spreading it out in hopes of remaining undetected is unrealistic, and that a single surprise swallow constitutes a pranker's best hope. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.165.9.14 (talk • contribs) 24 Feb 2007

I deleted the first paragraph that primarily cited a humor-oriented web site's list of pranks. As this list was probably compiled from message boards, I don't think it qualifies as sufficient evidence to go against two of the posters here (albeit, also in a "forum") who have reported it's not feasible. In effect, the link to the pranks list was being used as "proof" that it was feasible. Removing that paragraph allows removal of the "disputed" tag and shortens the size of the pranks section to alleviate the "keeping our priorities straight" complaint above that i agree with. I added the unsourced phrase "It is not known if the taste and color..." as a compromise between not being able to cite the above posters experiments, and not having evidence that the TV portrayals are realistic. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.214.120.227 (talk) 10:53, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Sklera?

The word "sklera" is used in the Medicine section. What does this word mean? A search of Wikipedia itself returns only this one reference and Google recognises it only as a non-English word but suggests it may be a misspelling of "sclera" - the 'white' of the eye. I suspect this is what the original author meant but as I am unsure I don't feel confident to make the change. 83.104.249.240 11:20, 27 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Methylene Blue - an observation

Some years ago a friend who kept reptiles had a Salamander with a large ulcer (c 10mm dia) om its back. Having read that Methylene Blue had antiseptic properties we applied a solution which gave a dramatic improvement after 2 or 3 days followed by complete recovery.

[edit] Correct Structure?

Isn't the structure that is shown that of leucomethylene blue and not of methylene blue, since that has a cationic sulfur group?Mbdxe (talk) 11:00, 21 January 2008 (UTC)