Talk:Metanexus Institute

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[edit] Counterbalance.org

An interesting bit of information is that Counterbalance.org lists [1] their address as:

Counterbalance Foundation
2030 Dexter Ave N Suite B296
Seattle, WA 98109

This address turns out to be a private mailbox located at Aaron's Mini Storage[2], a well-known [3] front address in the Seattle area. FeloniousMonk 23:53, 25 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Inaccuracies

- Metanexus is not funded by the Philadelphia Center for Religion and Science. The Philadelphia Center for Religion and Science was Metanexus' previous name.

- Metanexus is not funded by Counterbalance. Counterbalance does not fund organizations. Counterbalance is an online repository of interviews, articles, lectures, conferences, etc. relating to religion and science issues. Metanexus links to Counterbalance because of their great free content, including that from some of the most brilliant scientists alive today, many who do not support religion. Like Metanexus, Counterbalance is a very fair, open organization concerned with complex and controversial issues. Check it out.

- Metanexus does not support Intelligent Design. Without exception. See article on Metanexus homepage by the founder and executive director called: "The Problem with Intelligent Design." A few years ago, when Intelligent Design was a buzzword for people who thought God did not have to be absent in evolution and other natural processes, a debate on Metanexus arose between philosophers, theologians, and scientists over this very idea. Today, Intelligent Design has become a cover for young earth creationism and much anti-science. Metanexus does not support or publish articles in favor of this Intelligent Design (cf The Problem with Intelligent Design, by William Grassie), and, fortunately or unfortunately, can see that this term once used to discuss a particular area of open, critical discussion is now lost to extremists and the media. Indeed, many pro-evolution, pro-science, and pro-religion intellectual research organizations that had once employed this term have stopped using it for this reason. It is inaccurate, unfair, and malicious to associate Metanexus with today's Intelligent Design movement.

-Removing links to Metanexus' many scientific research programs on religions and religious issues does a disservice to fairness and accuracy. Metanexus' Spiritual Capital program is associated with many renown economists, and the Spiritual Transformation Research Program is associated with many non-religious, non-apologetic natural scientists who are interested in religion from a strictly phenomenological point of view. "Science" is not a misused buzzword on the Metanexus website, but rather a serious descriptor of Metanexus' mission and work.

[edit] Counterbalance.org

As Counterbalance is not a funder of Metanexus or an affilliate, speculation regarding their status does not belong here. Nevertheless, as critical scrutiny and factual accuracy as eschewed here in favor of conspiracy theory, please find above the "theory" of the "front" of Counterbalance. If we must allow for such irrational nonsense that only stands in favor of Wikipedia's critics, perhaps we can also hope more enlightened users will persue this "theory" for themselves rather than assume all work by dedicated scholars of religion AND science attempting to mitigate the effects of "intelligent design" is highly suspect. Perhaps there is actually nuance and texture in complex theories of reality rather than the black and white "irrationalism" that FeloniousMonk attributes, to paraphrase, to "religion, postmodernism, and other nonsense."

And, of course, we should return to the why this has anything to do with the Metanexus Institute. Does it make more sense that Metanexus is in some deep conspiracy, or rather that someone (who belligerently declares complex entities such as all religions of the world and over thirty years of philosophy to be utter nonsense) has decided to swift boat a dedicated group of intellectuals? Please decide for yourself by in depth review of Metanexus's website: www.metanexus.net. During this review process, please take a look at the recent conference at the University of Berkeley administered by Metanexus in honor of Charles Townes, Nobel Prize winner for his invention of the laser. This conference, Amazing Light: Visions for Discovery, explored the intersection of religion and science, including over 18 Nobel Laureates (actually, by the end of the conference, there were a few more; a few attendees received notice of their upcoming prize during the conference). All of this information is verifiable on Metanexus' many webpages, as well as on online converage of the Berkeley conference. Metanexus

Sorry, but the evidence doesn't support your claims [4] FeloniousMonk 17:13, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

What evidence? One article does not make valid support of a claim that has been disputed by more then one user. Please attempt to find ANY additional supporting information, since both the Counterbalance website and Metanexus Institute website have no mention of this funding relationship.

An actual press release from Metanexus Institute, verified with a contact at the Institute, states only funding from John Templeton Foundation in connect with its work. [5] This releases information is backed up by information available on the Institute's project website. [6]

Again another article concerning Metanexus Institute, verified again with a contact, states only funding from John Templeton Foundation. [7] This article again supports information given on the Institute's project website. [8] (an unsigned comment left by Joyfulkitten --FeloniousMonk)

Those are more recent press releases, subsequent to the 2001 release stating that Metanexus Institute received funding from the Counterbalance Foundation. There's no reason to assume the 2001 press release was not accurate or valid at the time it was published, absent a public retraction of the or disavowal of the press release from Metanexus. As it the cite stands as a perfectly valid source per WP:V and WP:RS.
Being a 501(c)(3) Public Charity, Metanexus is required to publish its sources of funding. I'll be conducting an additional Guidestar query [9] to view the full funding history of Metanexus Institute. Watch here for results.
Also, regarding the claim on your talk page "that press release does not include contact information and is sourced as 'Metanexus.net' and not 'Metanexus Institute'. Therefore again it is doubtful the information was released by Metanexus Institute." A domain lookup for 'metanexus.net' shows it's registered to William Grassie founder of the Metanexus Institute, and its administrative contact has a Metanexus Institute email address and lists the institute's physical address [10]. Meaning the press release is clearly referring to Metanexus Institute and it's veracity is not in any way in doubt.
Looking at the article's history, I think what we are experiencing here is an attempt at dissembling on behalf of the institute. Clearly someone wants very desperately to disassociate the institute from the Counterbalance Foundation, even though a 2001 press release from the institute (now verified) connects the two. Removing or discrediting the press release is the next obvious step when simple deletions fail. Wikipedia policies and guidelines provide for dealing with concerted attempts to bowdlerize articles. FeloniousMonk 20:38, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

Actually looking at the article's history is looks like multiple people have attempted to post correct information, and it is quickly erased by one user. I am sorry to challenge this 'conspiracy theory', but it seems evident that attempts to post the correct information are being blocked for some unknown reason. You have yet to support this one debated article with ANY supporting articles, which lends to the belief you can find none. It has been stated that Counterbalance does not provide 'funding' at all (a simple visit to the organization's website shows this) and articles have been submitted with reference to the Institute actual funding. I hope you follow through with your inquiry into the Institute's funding, as it is required to release its funding as a non-profit, and put this debate to rest by retracting the theories and posting the CORRECT information. --Joyfulkitten

You've already established that you are User:68.45.247.144 for us. That leaves User:Candlemelting (formerly known as User:Metanexus, hmmm...) and users 70.20.158.14, 70.20.158.14, all making the exact same edits. Objective observers will draw their own conclusions. FeloniousMonk 03:11, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

[edit] The Metanexus Institute / Counterbalance Foundation link, the details

Taking a hint from Joyfulkitten above, I decided to document any linkage of the two orgs alluded to in the 2001 Metanexus press release by approaching it from the other side, so I ran a Guidestar report on the Counterbalance Foundation first. Interesting stuff. First off, on their 2003 tax filing, the Counterbalance Foundation declared ~$23,000 with assets totalling ~$12,500. So I seriously doubt they're contributing funding to anyone, and Joyfulkitten is right about that.

But... the same 2003 tax filing, lists Counterbalance's president as Adrian Wyard [11]. Adrian Wyard is listed at Metanexus as being on the Metanexus Board of Directors [12] and [13]. Wyard also conducts workshops through Metanexus Institute [14]. So in the end what we have is the founder of the Counterbalance Foundation (counterbalance.org) sitting on the Board of Directors of the Metanexus Institute. And the contribution of the Counterbalance Foundation to the Metanexus Institute is in the form of the video content to the Metanexus Meta-Library [15], meaning the support from Counterbalance has not been in the form of funding, but material. I hope this settles the issue and we can now get back to normal operations on this article. FeloniousMonk 04:37, 1 December 2005 (UTC)

Since all four users were making the majority of their edits in the 'funding' section, and you yourself have just stated the Institute is not 'funded' by Counterbalance - the edits have been proved justified. If you would like to include information in the article about the organizations' shared work in the Meta-Library, then that is accurate and useful information. I think the reason myself and others have attempt to correct the funding information, is that you yourself have included as the top discussion item an allusion to shady practices by Counterbalance. Why it is unusual for a website, that most likely does not have an office, to have a private postal box does not really make sense – but this is information that should be in an article for Counterbalance Foundation(if one is created).

Though looking at the other users edits, I do wonder why links to projects this organization does fund were deleted by FeloniousMonk? They are relevent to expanding the information of the article and do not create an bias in the information. Joyfulkitten

[edit] Page protection

I've protected this because an anon IP and a new account are deleting what looks like properly referenced material. Please sort things out on talk rather than continuing to delete. SlimVirgin (talk) 22:03, 29 November 2005 (UTC)

I was wondering whether an agreement had been reached and if it's okay to unprotect. SlimVirgin (talk) 04:35, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
I am. FeloniousMonk 05:40, 2 December 2005 (UTC)
Done. SlimVirgin (talk) 10:24, 3 December 2005 (UTC)