Talk:Metallica

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[edit] Fix

"McGovney and Mustaine were later ejected from the band, in favor of Cliff Burton and Kirk Hammett, respectively." Mustaine was ousted before they found Hammett. He wasnt ousted in favor of Hammett. —Preceding unsigned comment added by WayneS1324 (talk • contribs) 15:51, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

Mustaine was really one of the first guitarists. The actuall original guitarist's name was Dalton Eleam (a.k.a. Casper Carnes), who was immediately fired from the band for "not even being born yet." —Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.175.208.141 (talk) 18:54, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Done. --Crazy4metallica (talk) 02:48, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] status

If their grammy award-winning status is added to the first paragraph, then that sentence also needs to include mention of their draconian stance on internet file sharing, and mention of the heavy criticism they continue to garner for this stance. 71.193.209.196 (talk) 18:31, 19 December 2007 (UTC)Anonymous, 12/19/2007

The Grammy Awards are mentioned in the third paragraph so no need to say it in the first. M3tal H3ad (talk) 03:54, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

I agree.. change it to the first sentance. You look others bands' pages, they have it listed that they are a grammy award winning band if they did winan award. January 3, 2008 10:45 PM --random user

[edit] Thrash metal?

The March edition of German Metal Hammer is dedicated to the birth of Thrash in 1983, and has James and Kerry King on the cover. Both Slayer and Metallica are identified as the two bands who made Thrash explode, although it is concluded that Exodus did already play this kind of music before Metallica - or Slayer. In the pages dedicated to Thrash in that issue, famous personalities of the Thrash movement are asked about their favorite Thrash album, -"Kill'em All" or Show "No Mercy". I will just cite some (p)references:

- Mille Petroza (Kreator) : Kill'em All
- Schmier (Destruction): Kill'em All
- Scott Ian (Anthrax) Kill'em All
- Eric Peterson (Testament): Kill'em All
- Gary Holt (Exodus): Kill'em All
- Tom Angelrippe (Sodom): Kill'em All
- Cronos (Venom): Kill'em All

Now does that end the discussion if Metallica is Thrash or not, once and for all? I hope it does! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Skehrkrow (talk • contribs) 15:05, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

I have listened to many thrash metal bands i would never consider metallica thrash metal. Every time it is taken off it is added back again, and i need some support. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Xcrissxcrossx (talk • contribs) 18:19, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Uh, WTF!? No one has ever denied the fact that Metallica is thrash metal...Thats like saying Black Sabbath isn't metal. Yeah, on some albums Metallica has more of a melodic thrash sound, but they have always been thrash. On some albums they exhibit a groove metal sound and on some newer albums they even have a nu metal vibe, unfortunately. I'd definitely say they abandoned their roots, but there is no denying that metallica was thrash for most of their career till recently. They may not be as heavy as bands such as Destruction or earlier Slayer, but they're still thrash. Navnløs (talk) 23:34, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Actually, there was no reason for me to write that, because not only is it no even an argument (everyone knows what metallica is) but after looking at some of your contribs I gotta a pretty good feeling you don't know much about metal in the first place. Navnløs (talk) 23:40, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Just about every book or webpage about thrash metal mentions Metallica as being a thrash band. It doesn't really matter if you don't think they're thrash, that's WP:POV. Many reliable sources say they are thrash. Funeral 23:47, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Agreed. Navnløs (talk) 23:52, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

Metallica's last 3 studio albums, we can debate if they're thrash. But in the 1980s they were thrash, and that's when they did all their best known (within the music industry at least) music (The Elfoid (talk) 19:37, 27 November 2007 (UTC))

St. Anger is the closest to thrash since The Black album (which is thrash), but Load and Reload are not thrash. They are still heavy metal but not really thrash. Skeeker _[Talk] 21:51, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

ARGH, I agree with everyone. Although, St. Anger still has a nu metal vibe to it in my opinion. Navnløs (talk) 21:57, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

NOOOOOOOOOOOO! Please do not list them as new metal, PLEASE! Skeeker _[Talk] 22:10, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Lol, relax man. Even if I wanted to add nu metal as a genre, theres a lot of people who wouldn't allow me, because they're too protective of this page. Why do you care that much about that anyways, though? Navnløs (talk) 22:18, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

nu metal is teh sucks, though...seriously. (sorry for this uncontributing comment) Navnløs (talk) 22:20, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

I was half joking, I hate the label nu metal and most bands in it. I actually hate most labels. Did you know somebody made up Porn metal and Porn rap? How dumb is that? Skeeker _[Talk] 22:31, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, nu metal sucks. I don't really know how I feel about labels. As long as they are real and accurately apply to a band I'm fine with it I guess. Yeah porn-anything for a genre is dumb...most "porn metal" bands are usually just grindcore bands that talk about sex alot. It's a purely lyrical genre, and therefore, nonexistent. Navnløs (talk) 22:43, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Well all and all, Metallica is, was and always will be thrash in some respect or another, they began their career being thrash and that has put the title of thrash on them. weather some people like it or not.--Metal to the Max! 10:14, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Here the truth: Metallica created thrash with "Kill 'Em All". Prepare to be Mezmerized! :D 02:08, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

Hmm... isn't a point of thrash metal that's it's supposed to be a) fast and b) heavy? Metallica/Black Sabbath/Slayer are not heavy, they're rock bands at best. Ozzy Ozbourne is about as hardcore as the guy who sings in Hinder. Go listen to DevilDriver and Lamb Of God. 203.54.3.180 (talk) 23:25, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

They're all rock bands. Also, Metallica formed over 25 years ago; they were heavy as hell back then. Keep historical perspective in mind. WesleyDodds (talk) 03:53, 7 February 2008 (UTC)

Nice discussion! So Metallica is not Thrash metal? That is true! Metallica is a typical hip hop band! So get some black metal with Bob Marley! And if you want some Deathcore, listen to James Brown! And Lamb of God is good too, if you like some country music!--Lykantrop ^(Talk) 13:35, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

I dont know about you but metallica is a thrash metal band just look at the solo in blitzkrieg now if that isnt enough look at the distortion in one towards the middle to the end in my opinion metallica is the best band ever...... hip hop? hip hop? i dont know what song you listened to but is not hip hop —Preceding unsigned comment added by 165.234.100.155 (talk) 18:24, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH !!!! Very nice one! But - actually - it is confusing if you are talking serious or not...--Lykantrop ^(Talk) 11:48, 2 March 2008 (UTC)

In response to the writer above that typed Metallica/Black Sabbath/Slayer are not heavy, I think you are a little confused. Metallica for it's time was pretty heavy. Their old music even in today's time has some bite. Black Sabbath wasn't in this discussion of thrash because Black Sabbath has never been called thrash. But again, they were heavy for there time. And Slayer, are you serious? Not heavy? Listen to the album "Reign in Blood" and if you think it is not heavy you need your hearing checked; and that album came out in '86. Even Slayer's oldest music make modern "metal" bands run in fear. Lamb of God is heavy, I won't argue that (they're actually my current favorite band), but they are on par with Slayer and are actually very influenced by them. And the comment about Ozzy being as hardcore as the guy from Hinder...WTF? A guy that sings "coming from the lips of an angel" is on the level with a guy that bites heads off of doves and bats at concerts? I think your perception of reality is a little distorted there buddy. And to Lykantrop: don't worry I actually got your joke and it was funny! Feral Mind (talk) 17:38, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

Okay, guys, why do you refuse to accept the fact that Metallica just isn't as heavy as they were back then in the 80's? They were great, yes, they were Thrash, but they aren't anymore. Now they're just radio music. Compare them to Overkill, Testament, Holy Moses and you'll see how "soft" they sound compared to these Thrashers. Bands change, so did Metallica. They aren't Thrash Metal anymore, period. Consider them radio music or Hard Rock, but not Thrash. Given their Legacy as Thrash Kings that doesn't mean that everything they come up with NOW is Thrash. 1stLtLombardi (talk) 11:51, 17 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Rumours ....

Remove those rumours about new album from the friend of Metallica members. It has no place in encyclopedia.

78.1.123.173 (talk) 09:12, 28 November 2007 (UTC)

WAHHHHH WAAHHHHHHH WAAAAAAHHHHHHHH! Boo Hoo. have a sook. you will probably never even go back on this page anyway. --Metal to the Max! 10:16, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Metal, please see WP:CIVIL. ≈ The Haunted Angel Review Me! 19:52, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Sorry haha, woooops. I wasnt making any personal attack buddy, but i mean come on, some people are here to contribute and this joker just makes his little refference and he's not even a member. --Metal to the Max! 11:36, 6 December 2007 (UTC)

I wasnt making any personal attack buddy

this joker

Nice way to contradict yourself. Feel free to go cry to a mod since you have no proper comeback. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 142.162.190.104 (talk) 04:58, 28 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] is that last bit really worth it??

I mean iall it is, is some guys opinion and quote on one particular song, who cares, is does not do much for Metallicas Bio now does it. If i just made a small artical about my opinion on Master of Puppets then its not really the way to go. just take this in consitteration.--Metal to the Max! 10:07, 29 November 2007 (UTC)

Metallica USED to be a heavy metal band. They are a blend of country, soft rock and metal now...hardly Heavy Metal.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.170.200.123 (talk) 06:44, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

Are you insane? St. Anger was Heavy Metal, not Trash, but Metal. James' did one country performance, a song. They aren't Country. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 12.219.42.58 (talk) 04:40, 1 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Backstage rumours

There have been rumours that whilst the band were going through a fairly drug induced phase in their career they experimented in their sexuality and adhered to the more masculine groupies. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.155.177.184 (talk) 00:30, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] "Tragedy strikes Metallica"

That sounds way too dramatic for Wikipedia, in my opinion. Should we change it to "Death of Cliff Burton"? Thoughts? Master of Puppets ^{Care to share?} 06:05, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

I agree. Changing. ≈ The Haunted Angel Review Me! 19:50, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

That sounds better, as you said, Tragedy is a little much for wikipedia.--Metal to the Max! 09:04, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Thats pap, everyone knows JH is a homophobe.

[edit] GA Review

I'm placing this on GA Hold for seven days because the article needs more in-line citations. For example, these five sentences are unsourced. Where did this info come from?

Ulrich talked to his friend Ron Quintana, who was brainstorming names for a fanzine. Quintana had proposed the names "Metal Mania" and "Metallica". Convincing him to use "Metal Mania", Ulrich used Metallica for the name of his band. A second advertisement was placed in The Recycler for a position as lead guitarist. Dave Mustaine answered, and after seeing his expensive guitar equipment, Ulrich and Hetfield recruited him.

Cheers! Wassupwestcoast (talk) 23:00, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm not quite sure about this but I'm pretty sure I read that quote in Sound of the Beast: The Complete Headbanging History of Heavy Metal by Ian Christe. Blizzard Beast ^$ODIN$ 23:17, 12 December 2007 (UTC)

The references are at the end of the paragraph,[1] i didn't want to have every sentence like this,[1] with the same reference being repeated.[1] M3tal H3ad (talk) 01:11, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

That section is referenced; however, anyone feel like getting this 'Sound of the Beast' book to reference from it? I can take a trip to the library if need be. Master of Puppets ^{Care to share?} 01:17, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

That would be great if you could. M3tal H3ad (talk) 01:40, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Ok, I'll phone around. Master of Puppets ^{Care to share?} 02:40, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Add some "fact" tags if there's anything else I need to source with the Christe book right now. WesleyDodds (talk) 05:50, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

I should point out that that book is not all correct, although many people around wikipedia use it as a source. The sections about Metallica are fine, though. Ian Christe just get a few genres totally wrong. He gets the power metal genre totally fucked up, and he makes the speed metal genre pretty much the same thing as the thrash genre. Other than that the book seems mostly accurate, although he sometimes mentions a band in the wrong genre. Blizzard Beast ^$ODIN$ 18:06, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

The parts about Metallica are the only relevant parts right now anyways. Anyway, as far as I know I'm the only active editor with the book. WesleyDodds (talk) 19:38, 13 December 2007 (UTC)

Everything is sourced.. M3tal H3ad (talk) 01:44, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

My public library didn't have it, and it would take weeks to order, though I see that WesleyDodds has it under control... Master of Puppets ^{Care to share?} 07:26, 16 December 2007 (UTC)

I have the book as well, but I'll leave wesleydodds to it. Blizzard Beast ^$ODIN$ 18:13, 17 December 2007 (UTC)

It's not in the book, so the source used should stand. WesleyDodds (talk) 10:37, 18 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Conclusion

GA Pass. I think it satisfies the criteria at Wikipedia:What is a good article?. I enjoyed reading it and laughed at how often 'guitar technician John Marshall' would have to fill in - you should make a section just for him. Cheers! Wassupwestcoast (talk) 16:55, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Look, if you're going to Semi-Protect

Make sure there's not a fucking mistake in the second paragraph. And I'd love to fix it, but I can't. "Metallica rose to fame with its 1991 Metallica album, and critics say the 1986 release Master of Puppets is one of the most influential and "heaviest" thrash metal albums. The ba..." They rose to fame with their 1981 album, self-titled Metallica. Please, for the love of God and Metallica, fix it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.12.0.200 (talk) 15:32, 19 December 2007 (UTC)

Ummm the only thing they had released in 1981 is demos. Metallica was released in 1991, thanks for your useful comment :) M3tal H3ad (talk) 02:32, 20 December 2007 (UTC)

I'm sure it was locked for good reason and good faith, and if that stops unregistered users from fixing mistakes (which in this instance, isn't the case) then that's an unfortunate side effect as errors are never taken into consideration when they're protected. Rehevkor (talk) 00:47, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

What error are you talking about? M3tal H3ad (talk) 05:11, 21 December 2007 (UTC)

Agreed, MOP was the album that made Metallica a worldwide band. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.130.59.203 (talk) 13:59, 15 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Replacement Rythm Guitarist

During that show in Montreal when James got burned they got a replacement rythem guitarist. Why don't they mention him? Loydd Grant didn't do anything ad they mention him. Scorpio777 (talk) 23:52, 26 December 2007 (UTC)Scorpio666

You mean John Marshall... Him and the Montreal Incident are both mentioned in the Metallica 1990-1993 section. Funeral 00:09, 27 December 2007 (UTC)

If John is mentioned in the Montreal Incident, should we mention Flemming too, replacing Lars during Download Festival 2003? Oh, I also changed the title of this section to "Rythm" instead of "Rythem". --Skehrkrow (talk) 13:22, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Lloyd Grant was never in Metallica, he should be removed from the band members.

[edit] Lead section

The lead section of this article is too long, does not immediately establish notability (although that is certainly not in question!), and duplicates much of the content in the history section. It should focus on why Metallica is such a popular and influential band and leave the history to later sections in the article. Get the TOC above the fold! Steve Carlson^Talk 01:42, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

• WP:LEAD states four paragraphs for an article this size is fine
• Mentioning selling 90 million albums is not notable?
• The lead summarizes the article so information will be duplicated.
• and your version of the lead would be..? M3tal H3ad (talk) 03:51, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

But why doesn't it have a single source? From WP:LEAD: "[The lead] should be carefully sourced as appropriate". Can't understand how this article has FA status with this kind of blunder. Grinder0-0 (talk) 17:13, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

It is sourced in the body. M3tal H3ad (talk) 04:15, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

Hardly an excuse for not having a single source in its lead. "[-]there is not, however, an exception to citation requirements specific to leads" - WP:LEAD. Grinder0-0 (talk) 11:42, 3 February 2008 (UTC)

I have sourced the sales figures. M3tal H3ad (talk) 03:04, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Lloyd Grant

LOLLYD GRANT WAS NEVER IN METALLICA, HE PLAYED AS A TEMP ON THE METAL MASSACRE DEMO AND HIS SOLOS WERE LATER REMOVED AND REPLACED BY DAVE MUSTAINES, TAKE HIM OFF THE LIST!!!! He never recorded and album, never performed on stage just played two solos on a demo... he is not worth mentioning... Bob Rock is more of an ex-member of the band... he has written songs, recorded and produced with the band as well as playing live with them! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.130.59.203 (talk) 16:17, 10 January 2008 (UTC)

Dear GOD, man. Calm down. Please? The liner notes for Garage Inc. list him as having been the lead guitarist for a time. Therefore, you have nothing. As for Bob Rock, he played because they didn't have a bassist at the time, and when they signed Rob Trujillo, Rob took over. Please, chill. ElimRawne (talk) 03:05, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

• I agree with the shouter above: Grant was never a member of the band in the way James, Lars, Kirk, or any of the others were. The liner notes are simply wrong, or were written in such a way as to make things sound more interesting than they really were (see also the bit in those same notes about the existence of ban on cover songs in LA clubs in the 80s, a ban which Metallica was able to circumvent because their covers were so obscure. Neat story, except no such ban ever existed). Everything else you can find about this situation will strongly indicate that it's a wrong-headed idea to consider Grant a real member

. Pillsbur (talk) 17:51, 12 January 2008 (UTC)

Grant only played two guitar solos on a DEMO, he never recorded, toured or is considered a member by any valid source. The Garage Inc insert is describing when they started out, but Grant only worked with Metallica for ONE DAY. This in my view is not enough to make him a a member of the band, his solos were not even used and were replaced by Dave Mustaines. So his contribution to Metallica is ZERO. Why is he still on there? If Grant is on there then surely Marshall should be as he actaully worked with Metallica and played live with them! Maybe you could get real silly and post every person who has guested alongside them over the past 30 years as well. You wouldnt, thats why Grant should go. Hes a bass player by proffesion anyways.

Bob Rock on the other hand produced every album in the 1990s early 00s, toured and played live with the band and recorded an album with songs he is credited for writing,so has a solid case to be included. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.130.59.203 (talk) 14:05, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

Agree, remove Grant. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.130.59.203 (talk) 16:12, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

I don't think Grant was ever a member either, however does deserve a mention within the text. —Burningclean _{[Speak the truth!]} 22:02, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

There are multiple errors with Lloyd Grant's tenure in Metallica. For starters, he wasn't the original lead guitarist in Metallica. Dave Mustaine was the original lead guitarist (http://www.metallicaworld.co.uk/dave_mustaine.htm), and wasn't present for the recording "Hit the Lights" due to prior obligations with another band. So basically he SHOULD be removed form the list. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.130.59.203 (talk) 11:31, 22 January 2008 (UTC)

I read an interview with Lars Ulrich (just after Lloyd Grant's new band DefCon released a demo) in which he claimed that Grant was a member of Metallica, but possibly prior to the band adopting the name Metallica. He further claimed that Grant was dropped from the band because it was hard to get heavy metal gigs with a black guitarist. (This was in Metal Forces magazine from sometime in the 'eighties). So the story that he was just hired as a one-shot deal to do the solo on Hit The Lights isn't as cut and dried as it seems.Revmagpie (talk) 03:47, 29 March 2008 (UTC)

According to Ron McGovney in an interview from So What! club magazine, Lloyd just came over once to put down his solos, nothing more than a service to his buddy Lars. If this is true, he was just there once to help out, sort of a session musician. If that qualifies him, Marianne Faithful should be listed as band member too, just like the dozens of classic musicians who put down the string tracks on NEM. Get the point?--Skehrkrow (talk) 22:10, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Stylistic origins

+ Queen, ref: Erlewine, Stephen Thomas & Prato, Greg, Metallica, All Music Guide, <http://allmusic.com/cg/amg.dll?p=amg&sql=11:aeh1z83ajyvj> 

[edit] Hey

Congrats on bringing this article to FA-status. Medieval Man 03:00, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

Thanks :) M3tal H3ad (talk) 03:04, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Mark Turczak?

I don't know about you guys, but I've read Metallica's autobiography, been a fan for as long as I can remember and can recall most of their history pretty well, but how come I've never heard of the name Mark Turczak? It's mentioned in the first paragraph that he was the first bassist and got kicked out for being gay... or something weird. Never heard of it - don't believe it. Either someone prove me wrong or that's just not true. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Archoran (talk • contribs) 21:54, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

It appears to be simply vandalism. CloudNine (talk) 22:28, 6 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Newsted hazing

I dont understand this statement: "Newsted's bass was purposely turned down on the album as a part of the continuous "hazing" he received, and his musical ideas were ignored." in the ...And Justice for All (1988–1990) section. It has "Some Kind of Monster feature film" as a source, but I didnt take a note about anything like this in the film. There is nothing about any hazing of Newsted in 1988-1990. Has anybody an explanation?--Lykantrop ^(Talk) 13:18, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

My bad, used the wrong source. It's corrected now with the Playboy interview. M3tal H3ad (talk) 01:51, 14 February 2008 (UTC)

The bass being turned down was not part of the hazing, it was more an effort to keep the bass more under control, get it to follow the drums. Lars Ulrich stated this in an interview, Cliff would be out in space with his bass, so they put a foot on Jason right from the start to prevent this from happening again. I am affirmative about this, unfortunately I no longer have the mag, and can't quote exactly when and where he said it. So just take this as an unconfirmed additional info to the "no bass on Justice issue". --Skehrkrow (talk) 13:15, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

Not to mention that they simply were unhappy with overall production/engineering of the album and the bass-less sound they ended up with, which resulted in their "breakup" with longtime sound engineer Flemming Rasmussen. That was a major contributor to their decision to turn to Bob Rock for the next album. It's not like they intended Justice to eventually sound like that. I'd say that's "confirmed" considering they said so in roughly a million interviews since then. 91.33.248.205 (talk) 09:28, 10 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] The Road Virus Heads North

No, its not a song title. It's Stephen King story which mentions a deranged Metallica fan heading home from a concert. I'm gonna go search the internet to see if i can find a reference. Or we could just say its in the book, Everythings Eventual. Whatever.♠Д narchistPig♠ (talk) 05:09, 17 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Power Metal Demo????

How come Power Metal is listed? not even Metallica's website acknowledges that "demo" 205.118.119.223 (talk) 19:12, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] The albums' genre

• Kill 'Em All - Thrash/Speed Metal
• Ride The Lightning - Thrash Metal
• Master of Puppets - Thrash Metal
• ...And Justice For All - Thrash Metal
• Metallica - Heavy Metal
• Load - Hard Rock
• ReLoad - Hard Rock
• St. Anger - Nu Heavy Metal/Hard Rock - I'd say. Burningclean _[speak] 03:32, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

16:56, 13 April 2008 (UTC)

Or we can just make them all "Heavy metal" for consistency. I did this with R.E.M., and just made all the album and song infoboxes just say "alternative rock". WesleyDodds (talk) 01:09, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

I wouldn't disagree with that. Thrash and speed are just heavy metal subgenres. The 2 albums that the user above identified as hard rock are more commonly identified in pro publications as heavy metal.(which they are) The strikeout "nu" comment is a bit of childishness that happens irregularly on Wikipedia where that album is concerned. The article itself has been in debate in the past and was only stabilized by the addition of 4 reliable sources that all say heavy metal (the article still appears to turn into a battle zone whenever those citations are removed so there seems to be no argument about the content as long as the citations stay in place) The only debate I could add in favour of one of the subgenres is that without Metallica's first 3 thrash albums the entire subgenre would have died a quick death. So the inclusion of thrash metal where those 3 albums are concerned is pretty concrete simply because of the "historical" element of it. What exactly prompted this post in the first place? On a quick reading it just looks like a random blog that belongs somewhere else other than Wikipedia. Wesley is there a previous debate on this that I have missed during my extended hiatus from the project? Anger22 (Talk 2 22) 01:26, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

It isn't "nu" just due to the fact that it has lower tuned guitars. That is what bugs me when people say that. Burningclean _[speak] 01:46, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

Load and Reload are definitely heavy metal/hard rock and St.Anger has noting to do with hard rock. Else agreed. --  LYKANTROP  11:32, 17 April 2008 (UTC)

As long as nobody is able to show me a verifiable list of criteria by which to classify music into genres, this whole debate is a moot point. I'd just put them into the metal category. Because if you start arguing the finer points of music, you will never ever be able to get common ground: is Judas Priest metal? If yes, is Manowar metal? But both sound very different. King Diamond? Get my point? Besides, why all this thinking? This ain't philosophy 101, it's metal, so bang that head that doesn't bang, shut up and enjoy the music! ;)--Skehrkrow (talk) 22:15, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

Burningclean _[speak] 22:25, 24 April 2008 (UTC)

St. Anger is definitely not Nu in any sense, it is more like alternative metal as you said. And changing the first 4 albums to "heavy metal" is stupid. Thrash metal has evolved on a different path than traditional heavy metal artists like Judas Priest. 21:14, 07 May 2008

[edit] Metallica's Influences

Just a thought, but it seems to me that listing Black Sabbath, Deep Purple and Led Zeppelin as the band's primary influences is misleading. While those bands certainly did influence Metallica, I think it'd be more useful to substitute the bands Metallica (by their own admission) imitated. According to the 'Garage Inc.' booklet, Metallica initially set out to be a combination of Diamond Head and Motorhead. Besides the above quote, this influence in immediately apparent to a greater degree than the influence of the three bands currently listed. I feel that this change will make that particular section more accurate. Thoughts? OlympicSharpshooter (talk) 05:15, 15 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Guitar Hero: Metallica

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6191921.html It's pretty much confirmed. Should we add this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Insaneingus (talk • contribs) 01:52, 4 June 2008 (UTC)