Talk:Metallica/Archive 4

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Archive 4
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Contents

Metallica Icon

Someone needs to put that event in the bio. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.97.35.21 (talk) 04:02, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

Band Members

It seems to be there is the same problem here with the Megadeth page. The listing of band members was laid out in a table that was easy to read and gave a good visual representation of who was in the band when and for how long. I think the original table was much less confusing. I am changing it back to the original one. Mobus 04:38, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

Take a look on Pantera's Wiki page. There is a VERY easy to comprehend chart there on band members though it lacks specifics included on this one. Whichever though, they're both good. Typical convention is time moves left to right where Metallica's moves top to bottom making Pantera's a little faster to descern. Can't complain if ya don't help, right? So I'll stay quiet.

Semi-randomly browsing has brought me Mike Inez's page, that insinuates from 2002-2003 Inez played bass before Rob officially left Black Label Society (they alledgedly made a straight swapover). Anyone cast any light on this? MonstaPro 20:19, 13 May 2007 (UTC)


James also plays lead guitar. (Whiskey in the Jar, Nothing else Matters sm version) I'm going to add that.

Logo

What happened to the logo in the infobox? Willbyr (talk | contribs) 19:18, 7 July 2006 (UTC)

Yes, and while the picture replacing the logo is captures the Burton-lineup well, a current photo would be more suited for the info box. - Cyrus XIII, July 20th, 2006

DVD Audio

Don't forget to include in the article the release of the Black album on DVD Audio. --MarioV 22:41, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Improved the Discography

I've made a number of wording changes to the Discography section. Much of the info included was NPOV and there was also a significant amount of weasel wording. In addition, a lot of it was worded in ways that were awkward at best and misleading at worst, which I've done my best to improve.

I would also suggest removing the links to individual years and dates as I can't see how it helps the article or a reader and is just another thing adding to the swelling page size... what do others think? DavidLaurenson 15:50, 30 July 2006 (UTC)

I'll get rid of them. There is no use for them. --Thundermaster367 13:10, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Alcohol

"By this stage the band had become infamous for their extensive use of alcohol, so much so, that they were often nicknamed "Alcoholica". Alcohol had become an integral part of their music and performance, and would continue to be for many years."

I've removed this following paragraph because:

a) The Alcoholica nickname isn't really important or relevant to anything.

b) The second sentence is just plain misleading, leading a reader to think that their music was defined by alcohol and that they were all incapable of playing a show without being drunk, which is just plain wrong. DavidLaurenson 17:23, 30 July 2006 (UTC)


It's pretty relevant to the history of Metallica as far as I'm concerned. They were known for their excessive drinking and eventually James had to go to rehab for it.Cdwillis 11:49, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

If I'm not mistaken i think that James Hetfield him self has admitted that some of the lyrics in that stage was effected by the excessive drinking, and that he didn't realize it until after the rehab. I think that makes it relevant.

It makes it very relevant. The alcohol use even affected the bands studio recording for St. Anger. Keep it in. XXLegendXx 17:10, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

I also believe it's relevant, it's been mentioned in documentaries about the band and should be mentioned here. Vicco Lizcano 18:10, 22 March 2007 (UTC) (Tell me where I'm wrong)

Absolutely leave it in. A band isn't just the sound they make on stage.

Deicide rules!!!!!!!!!!!!


Video?

It is said it the article that Metallica made a video("One") despite claims of never releasing one...... I have seen this claim many times, but did Metallica actually claim that? what's the source of that?

It's a joke/running gag amongst Metallica fans, mainly due to the fact that many TV shows/news articles about the band ignore the fact that "One" was the group's first music video and instead falsely claim that "Enter Sandman" was the first video Metallica made simply because Enter Sandman is the group's first big hit with the mainstream...

That wasn't my question, I meant that in many places, including wikipedia is sais that many fans of the band thought metallica "sold out" with their first video because they stated they will never make a video. Now, my question is - did they really state that? are there any refrences? AnoreX 20:15, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

--70.124.132.176 02:56, 19 September 2006 (UTC)

Lars explained this in the MTV Icon: Metallica special..--R-Tiztik 21:24, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

missing bass on "...and justice for all"

The article states that the most likely reason for the perceived absence of bass guitar is that Jason was absent during the mixing sessions and thus unable "to affect the final mixing process". Are we to understand that the only person in the room who knew what a bass guitar is supposed to sound like, was Jason ? Or did his absence cause them to forget all about it ? Something smells fishy about the whole thing. Omega Man 22:14, 24 September 2006 (UTC)

I believe that, regardless of whether or not he was there, the down-mixing of the bass was done deliberately. However, until something is officially said about it, anything that gives reasons for it is most likely speculation. Willbyr (talk | contribs) 03:37, 25 September 2006 (UTC)


Actually, I believe it was in the making of the Black Album video that Lars had mentioned rushing through production of ...And Justice and using left-over lyrics and riffs. In another source, (that could have very well been the same video) Jason had griped about his bass being tuned out, and the feeling I got was that the band wasn't quite sure of him and his abilities at that point. Could he match Cliff? VIOLENTflem 13:07, 4 April 2007 (UTC) ViolentFlem

Awards

I found out only the grammies listed here, so I added the other awards months back, recently I found about two more awards which I have listed here again;

  • 1999: Catalog Artist of the Year: Metallica
  • 1999: Catalog Album of the Year: Metallica (The Black Album)

also I read it that the album is still on charts after 700weeks, 14yrs (black album that is) i believe it should be mentioned somewhere. Akeeq 17:25, 26 September 2006 (UTC)


As of now I have added the following paragraph

The Black Album is also tied for the 26th spot of highest selling album of all time in USA. In 2005 after 14 years of its release the album was still #11 on the Top Pop Catalog Chart. It has been on the charts for well over 700 weeks.

reference: http://www.mac-archive.com/metallica/sales.html Akeeq 17:35, 26 September 2006 (UTC)


Why did someone remove this without any mention as to WHY!? Its back in the article, The Black Album is also tied for the 26th spot of highest selling album of all time in USA. In 2005 after 14 years of its release the album was still #11 on the Top Pop Catalog Chart. It has been on the charts for well over 700 weeks. Akeeq 20:55, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

18th Biggest Commercial Act?

I read here; http://www.mac-archive.com/metallica/sales.html that it is the 16th biggest act, any references to the 18th digit? should it be changed to 16? Akeeq 17:41, 26 September 2006 (UTC)

Apppearance on The Simpsons

This was listed twice in appearances for some reason with slightly different wording each time. I fixed this.

anonymous 71.226.17.185 02:03, 27 September 2006 (UTC)

Successful Cover Bands?

I just had the thought, "why is apocalyptica not mentioned on the page?" If it is, sorry for not noticing. But back to the point, I think there should be a list of (keyword here is) successful bands that have done well written and played arrangements of metallica songs.

... It was just a thought. Duckmurderer 05:24, 28 September 2006 (UTC)


I agree completely. To show the scope and impact of Metallica to those with no understanding whatsoever other successful bands primarily performing as Metallica cover bands should be mentioned. Besides, I've used Apocalyptica several times to at least partially turn people who flinch at the words 'thrash metal.'

Classical cover version

I remember having heard in 2000 a cover version of Metallica played exclusively on classical string intruments (double bass, and perhaps cello). Does anyone know the reference of this recording ? Baronnet 12:53, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

You're probably talking about Finnish cello-band Apocalyptica and their albums Plays Metallica by Four Cellos and Inquisition Symphony.--Serte 14:15, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
I think there might also be a string quartet tribute album (like there is, for example, SOAD and Tool) to Metallica. Not sure tho. 212.213.90.13 14:27, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
Indeed, there is a string quartet tribute album named "Say Your Prayers Little One" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/String_Quartet_Tribute). Could be that or the Apocalyptica albums.
212.213.90.13 14:43, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

References

I added a references section to the article and replaced those external links with that you can see just in the beginning of the article. This kind of references should be used from now on; This article has too little external references and we need that to try to make this a featured article. Metallica deserves that :P --Serte 19:56, 30 September 2006 (UTC)

Pluralise!

Metallica IS? Or Metallica ARE? There is more than one person in the band, they are not a single entity. There is is no consistency on this issue either as the phrase "the band were" is frequently used rather than "the band was" which would be correct if the band was one person or a single entity (depending on context). 194.221.133.226 09:04, 19 October 2006 (UTC)The K Man

I was just about to post exactly the same query. I think in America, bands are normally regarded as singular, I've always taken it as plural. If I may say, you're slightly wrong in that "the band was" is technically correct, because the band is a single entity, however, the band contains a plural number of people. There's no centre Wikiproject to which we can refer, so I'm not sure how we can solve it. SteveLamacq43 00:53, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
I just spent some time browsing for an answer to this, without anything to link to. At least with anything definitive. Metallica is a band. Metallica is an entity. There is only one. The guys are in the band that is Metallica. We don't say the Government are fools (sorry), and Enron were a company, and so on. I say we stick with is as long as it sounds right. Jimcripps 02:05, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
Further to that...what "sounds right" is not always what's correct on Wikipedia. The Wikipedia rule is: American subject=American English rules and any non-US subjects get International(referred to as UK English here on Wikipedia) rules. IE. "Metallica is"..IS correct since they are an American band. "Motorhead are", "Iron Maiden are", "Judas Priest are" ARE all correct too as they are UK subjects and therefore follow UK English rules where the subject is treated as a plural. Anger22 02:39, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Where is it stated the difference between American english rules and UK english rules? XXLegendXx 17:12, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

Failed GA

As of 25 October 2006, per WP:WIAGA, here's my assessment of this article:

  • (criterion 1.a) – Prose is compelling, but there are some orphaned paragraphs (only one-sentence paragraph) to be merged with others. Remove all inexact terms, such as "currently", "present", etc., per WP:MOS.
  • (criterion 1.b) – The lead section appears to be more advertising rather than summarizing the article.
  • (criterion 2.a) – This is my main concern for this article to have GA status. There are a lot of unsourced facts. Some sections have no source at all. Some templates have been put there as a reminding for the editors to supply them with reliable sources. I've put also some inline citation needed tags, mostly on quotes. Also all trivia have to be sourced.
  • (criterion 2.d) – There is a speculative sentence, that leads to WP:OR:
    • It is uncertain if Burton was dead at this point or not.
    • Very little of Newsted's bass is audible, and some fans speculate this was done intentionally as a reaction to Burton's death or as a way of hazing Newsted.
  • (criterion 6.a) – There are some copyrighted images with lack of fair use rationale for this article. Please fix this.

Conclusion: I failed this article for GA, mainly for lack of citations. There are a lot of unreferenced quotes and unsourced facts. Please supply them with reliable sources to conform verifiability of this article. After all the above matters are solved, then this article can be renominate it again. If you feel disagree with my review, you can always submit this article to WP:GA/R. Cheers. — Indon (reply) — 08:56, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

I'll be working on this to archieve a good status, striking completed/uneeded criteria. Michaelas10 (T|C) 18:06, 30 October 2006 (UTC)

Umm...Is that a Joke?

Why the hell are there so many citation needed tags in the mainstreem section? In my opinion, a lot of those statements do not need citations at all...It looks very bad and suggests that no research has been done. I think that much better judgement should be used when adding those tags. For example, Metallica increased their audience, the guitar was thin, this was their more structurally complex, etc. do not need citations. Just my thoughts, anybody agree or disagree? Whoever added all of those tags, I would appreciate an explanation just so I know why they were placed there (I could be completely wrong about this, I was want to know why I am wrong if I am) Wikipediarules2221 06:57, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

No, it is not a joke. It is part of GA review, see above. Yes, it looked bad, because there are so many unsourced sections and facts. Every trivia should be sourced. Every quotes should be sourced. Every facts/figures/numbers should be sourced. Every sentences that raise doubts should be sourced. And especially for biography living person article, every negative statements about the subject should be sourced. Now, replace those tags with your reliable source. Otherwise remove the whole line. Remember, there is no such a common knowledge. One common knowledge for someone may not be common knowledge to someone else. — Indon (reply) — 13:30, 5 November 2006 (UTC)

YES, it is a joke, they don't need citations (unsigned comment by Dimedude)

Arithmetic: 57,000,000+35,000,000 > 90,000,000

Am I missing something, or is part of the information in the second sentence somewhat banal? - Sure, I think I get the idea: The author wanted to stress the total without leaving out the information on where how many albums were sold--but it really sounds odd. Maybe split the sentence and mention first the info broken down geographically, and in the next sentence say something like "The resulting total of..."?? But does all of this info actually have to be in the intro at all? Maybe the geographical break-down cut be moved to further down in the article? --Ibn Battuta 23:15, 6 November 2006 (UTC)

Artwork needs caption tying it to Metallica

Artwork needs caption tying it to Metallica. BabuBhatt 21:15, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

I can find no reasoning to have "Devil's D-day" in the article. Can anyone clue me in? Jimcripps 18:48, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

References, Sources

Okay, I'm having trouble adding sources, but I can provide a lot of links here so that any of you can add them at their respective places. Anyone upto it? Akeeq 14:26, 10 November 2006 (UTC)


Just for starters;

The following Trivia can be referenced as follows;

Metallica's early works include references to the writings of horror/sci-fi author H.P. Lovecraft. The song "The Call of Ktulu" alludes to the name of the Lovecraft tale "The Call of Cthulhu," and the lyrics to the song "The Thing That Should Not Be" quotes from "The Shadow Over Innsmouth," a story by the same author.[citation needed]

http://www.encycmet.com/songs/srktulu.shtml

Akeeq 14:31, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Another reference;

Recently, Hammett played with Tool in a show during the song Sober and described the event on Metallica's official web site as "one of the most profound jamming experiences I have ever encountered."[citation needed]

http://www.metallica.com/index.asp?1=1&item=103338

I would appriciate if someone can add these references, as I'm not very familiar how to do it. And lemme know I'll give more references.

Akeeq 14:35, 10 November 2006 (UTC)


Come on now do it someone!! Akeeq 15:34, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Would love to help but I'm a novice so let me just add my own 'Come on now do it someone!!' Everybody is right so far that Metallica deserves a top-notch article.

Image removal

Removing the band's image because, "they can be possibly pictured again" seems very silly to me, since this also means that every fair-use image of a living person should be removed. I'm having trouble finding any free image of them online, as the most of them are either copyrighted or don't have their copyright status mentioned. Does anyone have a decent picture of them, such as in a concert or something? I can't see how this will get a good status otherwise. Michaelas10 (Talk) 18:38, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

Problem with logo

I noticed that the image of the logo isn't appearing on the page. It doesn't even work when I put it outside the infobox.

Image:Metallica_logo.svg

See, it doesn't appear here either. I think it may have something to do with the transparent background.

Can someone replace it with a version that has a white background and see if it works then? --Machchunk | make some noise at me 06:39, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Just to add, the same type of image appears in the infobox on the KISS page with no problems. --Machchunk | make some noise at me 06:46, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

I took out the pixel size, and it shows. Must have something to do with the 'thumb' attribute and pixel width together, or the width size was incorrect. Also replaced the blank with the underscore. Jimcripps 18:03, 11 November 2006 (UTC)

Metal Up Yer Ass

This site states that Kill 'Em All was originally going to be called "Metal Up Yer Ass" instead of "Metal Up Your Ass". Wikipediarules2221 05:11, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

References

Like one previous editor, I too am having trouble adding references. A reference for the claim that Metallica opened for The Rolling Stones under the Other Appearences section can be found here. I would appreciate it if someone could add this reference. Thanks a lot. Wikipediarules2221 05:23, 12 November 2006 (UTC)


I have links to almost all of those citations, but no one bothers to add... :/ Akeeq 12:33, 12 November 2006 (UTC)


I attempted to add a source and I am not sure if I did it correctly. I would greatly appreciate some feedback. I was trying to WP:Be Bold :) Also, the majority of information in that paragraph comes from that same source so I deleted the {{fact}} tags and placed the single citation at the end of the paragraph. Wikipediarules2221 00:34, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Speed Metal

Is Metallica also a Speed Metal band?


No. 61.5.151.220 20:45, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

Yes. It is included in List of speed metal bands and Kill'em ALl is mentioned in Speed metal article. The genre must be mentioned.Garret Beaumain 15:01, 21 December 2006 (UTC)


Dude...Metallica is just metal...not speed metal or thrash metal...that crap came later...Metallica is just pure american metal (Iron James 04:18, 6 August 2007 (UTC))

Regarding Demos

It has been thought that the metallica demo articles I wrote should be deleted, please help out by improving the articles. Thank you.

-Omaster

A few problems I have with the article

In the Mainstream Success section, the article reads: "It is said that Hetfield repeatedly yelled at the bus driver..." Using the words "it is said" manifests poor fact checking and casts a shadow of doubt on the authenticity of the claim. I know that the statement is true because James says so on the VH1 Behind the Music of Metallica video. The problem is, this source is heavily cited and I am not sure how to cite the same source numerous times. I would appreciate help with this so I can help improve the validity of many statements in this article.

  • Also, there are numerous parenthetical statements in this article that take away from the content. One such example also manifests poor referencing: "...as a way to test a new studio they had constructed (according to the EP's liner notes)"
  • I have a serious problem with this statment (other than the fact that it is 2 sentences long like every other paragraph in the section):"...and some fans speculate this was done intentionally as a reaction to Burton's death or as a way of hazing Newsted. The most likely reason, as mentioned by Hetfield and Ulrich in subsequent interviews,[citation needed] was that because Newsted wasn't at the mixing sessions, he wasn't able to affect the final mixing process" The bit about the fans' speculation should be deleted (in my opinion, let me know if you disagree) and possibly even the whole paragraph until sources are found. Any line that has something to the effect of "as [Whoever] mentioned in subsequent interviews" should be deleted on-sight.
  • Also, the sentence "The Damaged Justice Tour followed" is short and brings down the quality of writing. With no information about the Damaged Justice Tour following, I feel that the sentence is out of place and should be deleted.
  • Next, we get some 1 sentence paragraphs. One question I have is: how is the fact that Metallica chose the video for One to be the first video they released ironic? I may be a complete moron (probably the case ;)) but I do not see the irony.

These are just my opinions and if anybody has any comments, I would love to hear them. Furthermore, these are just suggestions and should be disregarded if they are seen as poor suggestions. I think that the article is well-written with the exception of this section. In my opinion, this section needs some serious work beyond the points I made. I hope everybody will help clean this section up and bring this article to GA status. Thanks and cheers! Wikipediarules2221 01:10, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

Metallica promotional photo (June 2006)

How can that photo be taken in June 2006? It shows James with no beard, yet that same month there are videos of him playing live with a long beard. He probaly shaved after all the show for the pic. just a guess

Do not remove without a cause

This is getting very annoying, someone keeps on removing this part;

The Black Album is also tied for the 26th spot of highest selling album of all time in USA. In 2005 after 14 years of its release the album was still #11 on the Top Pop Catalog Chart. It has been on the charts for well over 700 weeks.

Kindly read the discussion, if you have to remove a part state your reason here.


Here is the reference; http://www.mac-archive.com/metallica/sales.html Akeeq 20:47, 19 November 2006 (UTC)

References

Totally Disputed Tag

I have removed the totally disputed tag. If anyone has issues/ or wants to put it up again, kindly state your reason here first. Why have I removed it? A couple of reasons.

1) Only one line of the whole article has the neutrality disputed tag on it, and that does not make the whole article "Totally disputed"
2) I was given a reason that not all of the article cites its references, for that we do have the "This section does not cite its references" tag above paragraphs where necessary. It does not need the totally disputed tag for it.
3) The tag on neutrality disputed is on a line which is taken from; MTV Icon: Metallica. If anyone has seen it they would agree to the fact. I do not know how to cite it as a reference. So its again neutral. Shouldn't be any issue. Akeeq 17:47, 25 November 2006 (UTC)

The reasons are stated by using the {{POV-statement}} and {{fact}} tags in the article. Clear those up in order to qualify this article as one that isn't {{totally disputed}}. Roguegeek (talk) 10:58, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

You mean {{fact}} tags also count for totally disputed tag? If yes, then i'm at wrong. And now I see that you have added a couple of more neutrality disputed tags, I will update the article accordingly and would remove those with references, but I think the {{fact}} tags should not be counted for totally disputing an article. Akeeq 11:31, 26 November 2006 (UTC)

No, fact tags don't count for NPOV tagging unless the statements also present a particular POV. If I say "Chile has 6.5 annual inches of rain"{{fact}} then this does not count. "This is the reason that Chile will never be able to compete with the Argentinian produce market"{{fact}} does count. A lot of times, I'll just remove these if, based on my knowledge of the subject matter or common sense, the statement is unproveable (e.g. 'Metallica is the best thrash band ever'). Antonrojo 03:39, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
  • Looks like this has blown over, but yes, when such templates are added it is good form to discuss why on the talk page, and no, one fact template would not mean the whole article is disputed. It would be more appropriate to remove the unsourced statement than to add the totally disputed tag. Hiding Talk 20:21, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
This makes sense to me. Thanks Hiding and Antonrojo for helping me reach this understanding. Roguegeek (talk) 05:08, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for clearing it all up. :) Akeeq 05:29, 28 November 2006 (UTC)

That was a very good example of the Wikipedia process. Nice job all around y'all.

Early Influences

I believe an addition needs to be added regarding their influences. A very small piece was written about this but I did not see really any references to actual bands. The rock band "Rush" well known to be a large influence Canking 01:49, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

Lloyd Grant is NOT a former member

In the 'former members' section, Lloyd Grant is listed as a former member. That is incorrect since he was NEVER considered to be a member of the band. He was a guest musician to record a guitar solo for the first hit the lights demo. A guest musician just like Mariane Faithfull was for Reload. The former members are:

Jason Newsted - bass Cliff Burton - bass Dave Mustaine - guitar Ron Mcgovney - bass

These 4 individuals were members of the band not Lloyd. If you people noticed both Dave and Ron were thanked in the Kill 'em all booklet as former members not Lloyd —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Erang999 (talk • contribs) 15:24, 9 December 2006 (UTC).

Better picture of Robert Trujillo

Can someone replace the pic of Robert Trujillo? It looks as if he's shitting his pants! Really, it's not very good despite his "interesting" facial expression. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 87.122.0.105 (talk) 03:11, 18 December 2006 (UTC).

Trivia

This section was moved from the article to the talk page. It should be incorporated into the existing text. Trivia sections are inappropriate. John Reaves 10:33, 8 January 2007 (UTC)

Trivia

Videos / DVDs

Should there be a section, similar to discography that lists the various DVDs and Videos released? I'm not talking song video clips, but commercially available packages. For example, Cliff 'Em All, 2 of One, A Year and a Half in the Life of Metallica (Parts 1 and 2), Live Shit - Bing and Purge, and Metallica - The Videos. Dgen 05:39:13, 23 January 2007 UTC

Yea, good idea. Could put it in a list next to studio albums like in Slayer or Nightwish. M3tal H3ad 05:56, 23 January 2007 (UTC)

Summer Sanitarium 2000 - Locations

Though listed in the 'Temporary Live Members' section, I know of one location to add and with a source, there is possibly a third to identify.

Texas Stadium, Dallas, Texas, Summer Sanitarium 2000. Same bill listed as the Atlanta show. System of a Down, Kid Rock, Korn, Metallica.

According to an ad placed for a guitar owned by one of the participants, Kenny Olsen (Kid Rock guitarist), there were three shows where Metallica minus James was complimented by members of the other three.

http://www.rockstarsguitars.com/product.php?c=1&cat=110&scat=215

The link may be here today, gone tomorrow.

Checking an outside fan site is contradictory but interesting. Lists shows in Dallas, Atlanta, and the end of the tour in Lexington KY. Unfortunately, the location for Dallas is wrong. It lists "Starplex Ampitheatre" but the show was at Texas Stadium. The stage was on the field and passes were available for that area. Available seating in the stands too.

http://www.metallicaworld.co.uk/metallica_tour_dates_sanitarium.htm

Could Lexington be the third "occasion" listed in the Olsen article?

Playing drums for Korn (Dallas) was Mike Borden (listed in Korn as touring member but not for Summer Sanitarium specifically). Dreds. Skilled. When Korn's guitarists came on stage during the Metallica set and Lars began to play "Blind," he quit playing shortly after losing tempo on the third or fourth bar of the introduction. They tried more than once. Lars wondered aloud on the mic about being able to 'get it in rehearsal' (not exact quote; needs outside help) but for some reason not on stage.

More on the factual side: Anybody know a way to get a scan of the "Road Rage" article from Guitar One magazine? It may have some interesting material if it can be published or hosted...or just quoted :)

Last but not least: Metallica (*cough* Lars *cough*) promised to honor the current Sanitarium tickets for a genuine Metallica show with James sometime in the future. They did follow through. The fill in set was really unique at that point, so another show later was considered a great gesture. Fans in the Dallas / Fort Worth metroplex may remember this, as with the filming of "Cunning Stunts" in Tarrant County Convention Center (this one the outside source lists properly) from '97 shows.

http://www.metallicaworld.co.uk/metallica_tour_dates_poortour_usa.htm —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 76.187.56.232 (talk) 04:42, 31 January 2007 (UTC).

Are Metallica a Hard Rock Band

Metallica is not a hard rock band, but some of the songs in thier later albums can be classified as hard rock, so i think it would be fair to leave hard rock as one of there genres.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 86.29.2.212 (talk) 22:08, 2 February 2007 (UTC).

I think we should remove it as they are not a hard rock band and should not have it there as a genre. Thundermaster367 13:13, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Proposal Big Four Wikiproject

I have just created the Megadeth Wikiproject. But I think that the scope is too narrow (just Megadeth) and I think that the Metal Genere Wikiproject is too large of a scope to handle everything. I propose that we make a Wikiprject Big Four, or something to that effect to cover the Big Four American Metal bands, Metallica, Megadeth, Slayer, and Anthrax. I'm eger to hear any opinons. Adumbvoget 08:33, 24 February 2007 (UTC)

I agree, we should make a Big Four of Thrash Metal Wikiproject, that would kick major fucking ass.

What a silly question... OF COURSE! DO IT! I can't help though. I'm a metal-newbie.

You might take a look at what comes up when one clicks the link "Big Four" link at the beginning of the article. It lists "The Big Four Heavy Metal Bands of All Time Iron Maiden, Judas Priest, Black Sabbath and Metallica." I know there is a lot of cross-over between Heavy Metal and Thrash Metal but can/should Metallica really be on both lists? Agreed, they are huge and awesome and extremely influential... And how exactly are we deciding "Big Four" status? Personal favorites? Straight record sales? What about Pantera? Korn? Kiss? Motorhead? AC/DC? Motley Crue? Every one of these beasts do/did sell-out stadiums. I'll admit that I really never have gotten most of the differences in genres and subgenres. Maybe because I don't play, just listen and support. Anyway, just a few questions, rock on and keep up the good work headbangers.

Yeah totally, that would be awsome, right a big article on the biggest thrash metal bands, has Metallica sold 200, or 90 million albums?

Past Members

The past members Lloyd Grant, Brad Parker, & Jeff Warner were not listed on the line-ups, or even the template at the bottom of the page. They were brief, but as oppose to what the ignorant person saying Lloyd Grant was not a member was saying, they were. The correct history includes these people, and they should be listed. - IP: —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.88.206.118 (talk) 06:07, 11 March 2007 (UTC).

Broken Infobox

Quite obviously, the infobox on the article page is broken. I've been more concerned with learning the site's policies than its organizational nuances, so I lack the knowledge necessary to correct the issue. .Absolution. 05:44, 24 April 2007 (UTC)


Picture

I think there should be a new more clear band picture in the infobox, this one is out dated and hard to see the members clearly. Skeeker 18:06, 28 May 2007 (UTC)

I will try find a better one. M3tal H3ad 10:19, 29 June 2007 (UTC)

wow your gonna TRY FIND? my god man dont take the high risk well good luck all i can give is this try www.google.com , heard they got some stuff there i dunno maybe you find nothing but heck who knows right?86.80.121.33 09:34, 14 October 2007 (UTC)

Lost Masters of first three albums?

Has anyone else heard the rumor that Metallica lost the master recordings of their first three albums?

If you have a source, add the information on there. Thundermaster367 13:15, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Include how they were dubbed "Alcoholica"

thank you Zephead999 20:07, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

Japanese Reissues

I noticed on Amazon.com that Vertigo and Universal reissued the band's catalog last year in Japan.

When did their licensing deal with Sony formally cease to exist?


The reissues are released in mini jackets with the band's new logo and artwork printed on the discs.

Also, I noticed that Jason Newsted's face was cut off from the cover of the reissue of Garage Inc.


Does anybody own these discs?

If so, are they remastered as well?

Electrokinesis 18:05, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

Dunno about the remastering, but the cover has an obi strip down the left side. It's just a detachable strip of paper, not a part of the cover, so Jason Newsted is still pictured. --jh51681 04:34, 12 July 2007 (UTC)

To add to the bass discussion on "Justice"

I have read that the reason why Jason's bass was virtually mixed out of the Justice album was because it was supposed to be some kind of hazing process implemented by the band; a way of paying his dues.

Although, to me, this argument doesn't make sense because Jason was prominently featured on the Garage Days EP.

This is my opinion, but to me, it seems as if Garage Days and Justice were recorded and released in the wrong order.

Justice is a great album, don't get me wrong, but it almost sounds like a backward step. I think it would have been better if the record was released after Puppets.

What do you all think? Disagree?

I'd love to hear your feedback on this.

75.4.25.188 18:47, 13 July 2007 (UTC)

No, to me it makes perfect sense, doing the old stuff before attending to new songs. Letting Jason relive the feel of the first few albums as a band-member.

Also, the article states that '...And Justice for All' hadn't been played for 18 years... While they did play it on the 1992 San Diego concert, and did a pretty damn good job on it as well, in my opinion. Am I missing something? ~~Art'fact 25-7-2007

Logo

The logo featured at the top of the page is Metallica's first and classic logo, the "stabbing" logo. While this logo is still used by the band, would it not make more sense to use their newer "St. Anger era" logo which is featured prominently on both the band's official site and forums? Metallica.com Metallicabb.com

--CP 61 04:43, 21 July 2007 (UTC)

Mistake In Master Of Puppets?

"they were asked to open for Ozzy Osbourne, and Master of Puppets climbed to number 29 on the Billboard Top Album Charts.[6] Some critics consider the album to be the "greatest heavy metal album of all time". But the album is Thrash Metal, isn't it?

Thrash Metal is a subgenre of Heavy Metal. --Pail 16:25, 1 August 2007 (UTC)

Wikiproject

I don't know how but making a wikiproject for 'tallica would be sweet. Most of there single should be taken care of and some odds and ends stuff like that, so this is band and the articles sorrounding it are in tip top shape. Skeeker [Talk] 03:06, 2 August 2007 (UTC)

Just To Clarify.....

Metallica..is not speed metal..thrash metal..or anything but Metal, just plain metal...you people need to do some more research... Iron James 04:20, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

That's your opinion, it doesn't clarify much of anything. By what stretch of the imagination are they not a thrash band? --Bongwarrior 04:29, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
This is from their official site, I think it's related. [1] -- Kudret abi 04:40, 6 August 2007 (UTC)
They are one of the key originators of thrash/speed metal and had probably the first album of the sort. If you want to still complain about it we can source them very easily. Skeeker [Talk] 04:48, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

they may have done some thrash...but an album or two that fits under thrash doesnt make you thrash when the majority of albums are classified as METAL...not THRASH or SPEED...just METAL...saying Metallica is thrash is like saying Ozzy Osbourne is rap, its wrong. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by AcesInSpades (talk • contribs) 04:29, August 20, 2007 (UTC).

See, that's the thing: Metallica didn't record just one or two thrash metal albums. In this case, it was the first four out of their eight studio albums that were thrash, and from what I've been hearing, the ninth is going to be as well. Mcj88 19:14, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

HAHA, this section must be a joke... This band was (one of) the first thrash/speed metal bands, they popularized the genre. Emmaneul (Talk) 19:55, 22 August 2007 (UTC)


Logo

Please stop changing the logo, that logo was only used on one album and some singles, the original was used on six albums and most of the singles for them. when they have seven official albums with that logo on it then I think it will be okay for use. Skeeker [Talk] 10:49, 6 August 2007 (UTC)

This is not the current logo. St. Anger has the new logo and that is their latest album. It is even used on their site.—Preceding unsigned comment added by XAvengedSevenfoldX (talk • contribs)

I suggest finding what the real logo is and stopping this edit war, I have already blocked User:XAvengedSevenfoldX for violating the 3RR. Edit warring will not be tolerated. Also, the new logo has no fair use rational and will end up being deleted soon if that is not fixed. DarthGriz98 18:11, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

Fine. Will leave it as is.


missing info about lawsuit?

I came here because of this:

In the 1980s Ozzy Osbourne and the bands Metallica and Judas Priest were brought to court by parents who accused the musicians of hiding subliminal pro-suicide messages in their music.

in the We_Didn't_Start_the_Fire article. Didn't find any reference to it here. Can someone put it in, or put up a todo or something...? --geekyßroad. meow? 20:23, 1 September 2007 (UTC)

Genre layout in the infobox

Why has the lay-out been changed to a comma separated list? It was <br /> separated for years, until it was edited on 03:55, 8 September 2007 [2] with the comment "line breaks are unnecessary". Since then there has been some editing and reverting regarding capitalization. As far as I know there is no consensus on the genre lay-out in artist infoboxes. I don't mind having comma separated lists but here I'd recommend using a <br /> separated list because:

  • Capitalization will be more straight forward, no needless edit warring
  • Genres (speed metal in this case) won't be cut in two and displayed on two rows

I'll be bold and change it back to the original state. Kameejl (Talk) 14:29, 27 September 2007 (UTC)

Date of foundation

The article says Metallica was formed in October 28 1981, but the article 1981 says it was October 15. What is the correct date? anonymous user 14:17, 28 September 2007 (UTC)

Song articles

Why have articles for songs on Ride the Lightning and Master of Puppets been deleted but none for any other album? Those two albums are their two most important to 'tallica fans, so the songs should be keapt. Orion was deleted that is an extremley important song, it was Cliff's baby. These songs should not be deleted. Skeeker [Talk] 06:24, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

They were all put through the proper AfD process and were all voted nn and redirected back into the article with a very large concensus to do so. It was noted that this should be done to all "Non"-singles of every artist.(and it has) Many other bands are having the bulk of their "plain old" album tracks either deleted or redirected since most of them are just unreferenced original research. Editors fill up the articles with crap like "song meanings" or "lyrical interpretations"... or even worse... adding copyvio lyrics into the article. It's just a growing trend on Wikipedia to clean up the unencyclopedic and unneccessary baggage. 142.167.69.56 07:22, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

Heavy metal?

It bothers me that the article still states Metallica are heavy metal. They a thrash metal; they are a part of the Big Four of thrash metal. It should be common knowledge that this band is thrash metal, yet the articles says they are heavy metal. Why is this?

And I disagree that heavy metal is a blanket term. It is a subgenre and nothing more, but regardless, shouldn't Metallica be referred to as what they really are? I would edit it, but it would probably simply be reverted back.

DustFC 23:31, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

It doesn't matter if it "bothers" anyone. Wikipedia is not built on the personal opinions of editors. It is built on referenced, verifiable content from reliable sources. Personal POV does not apply here. Read WP:CITE, WP:V, WP:ATT and WP:RS. Metallica being labeled as a heavy metal band is abundantly referenced from reliable sources and has concrete verifiability. Content that is referenced from reliable sources cannot be removed from Wikipedia... this is vandalism. 142.167.75.132 23:53, 6 October 2007 (UTC)

I meant it bothers me that, despite the fact that it is common knowledge that Metallica are thrash metal, they are still called "an American Heavy Metal band." It just shames me someone could come to this page and be misled because of crap sources and ignorant majority opinions that say Metallica is in the same genre as Manowar and Black Sabbath. This is EXACTLY why I preach the message of Wikipedia being a horrible source for anything like genres.

But I suppose as long as Wikipedia is based on majority opinion and not fact, there's nothing I can do; heavy metal will always be seen as a blanket term, and Metallica will be heavy metal. So I give up.DustFC 01:51, 7 October 2007 (UTC)

The black album is certainly not thrash, nor are load and reload, or st. anger. This is obvious. 74.245.150.36 07:10, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Thrash metal? are you INSANE!? Lamb Of God are a thrash metal band. Metallica comes down as hard rock, possibly melodic speed metal. There is NO WAY their sound is heavy enough to be thrash metal, in all the 30 or so Metallica songs I have heard, not once has James ever used actual 'fire' metal screams, all he does is use 'heat' Agent708145 11:16, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

In the early days Metallica was known as a Thrash metal band, but I'm sorry to say that over time they have got slower and slower until there music is nothing more than melodic metal with a few fast ones tossed in. you could say the same about Ozzy, back in the day most of his songs were really heavy but on his new album most are slow ballads, So I'm sorry but it is a FACT that Metallica is heavy metal. oh and if you don't like how wikipedia works DON'T USE IT. Thuringowacityrep 11:37, 2 November 2007 (UTC)

Thrash metal is heavy metal you bloody idiot. Thundermaster367 13:16, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

First two citations are silly.

First of all why would a citation be needed for "Big Four"? Just type Big Four into any search engine and Metallica's name will come up several times.

Second, look into any Metallica biography and it will prove that Dave Mustaine answered the Metallica ad from the Recycler. C'mon people, let's show a little effort here since I can't edit it! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.206.124.190 (talk) 12:15, 26 October 2007 (UTC)

Because you have to cite sources even if it is bloody obvious. Thundermaster367 13:17, 5 November 2007 (UTC)

Template

On the template (Template:Metallica), why do we have all of the tours? Can we take them off, they are so space consuming. The Category for Metallica tours are listed on the template, can't we do with just that? Skeeker [Talk] 03:08, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

Citations

This article severly needs citations. Skeeker [Talk] 22:14, 7 November 2007 (UTC)

metal massacre

in the current edit of the the article it states that Lars convinced Slagel to include hit the lights in the compilation. This is not correct, Slagel promised Lars a spot if he got a band together - so i understand its kind of splitting hairs but the spot existed first not the song, even though with a earlier band "hit the lights" had already been written. I first remember this from an official Metallica bio i had read i wish i remembered the name of the book at the moment, i will attempt to look it up.

the following is a segment of an interview with Ron McGovney it can be found at http://www.metallicaworld.co.uk/Interviews/1997_ronmcgovney.htm


Q: At what time did Lars tell James of the opportunity to be on a record if they formed a band together?

A: "James had told me that they had a guitarist coming over for an audition. I remember opening up the front door and seeing this black dude with a Jamaican accent. He came in and they started jamming to Hit the Lights - the old Leather Charm song. They had this bass player at the time for about 2 or 3 weeks, I believe his name was Glen - he had long black hair - he couldn't really play too good at the time so they kicked him out. Lars had borrowed a 4-track TEAC machine to record a demo. So it was James playing the rhythm guitar riffs and singing, Lars on drums, Lloyd playing the leads, and I played bass."

Q: So Dave Mustaine did not play on the first version of "Hit The Lights" which ended up on the Metal Massacre compilation album?

A: "O.K... I believe on the very first pressing of Metal Massacre, they kept Lloyd's lead tracks, Lloyd actually only came over twice, and then they ended up recruiting Dave Mustaine on guitar - they had kept the ad running in the Recycler, they only planned on using Lloyd as a fill-in. As I remember, Dave played the two leads on Hit The Lights but they kept the second lead which Lloyd played because they liked it better. Now on the second pressing of the Metal Massacre, it was all Dave's leads."

it also brings up a question on what defines bandmember, i will leave this up to others to decide but Lloyd did play and record with the band.?.

referring to excerpt above I'm not really sure about any copy write laws so I'm just including this at the bottom.

In this exclusive SHOCKWAVES interview, original METALLICA bassist Ron McGovney tells the true-life stories about the early days of one of the biggest rock'n'roll bands in the world By Pounding Pat O' Connor

Pounding Pat O'Connor is the former co-host and producer of "Mandatory Metallica", which was the highest rated show on the Pure Rock radio station KNAC-Los Angeles. This interview was conducted in Fall of 1996 and covered many subjects that were passed over during Ron McGovney's KNAC interview in July 1993. For further information regarding Ron McGovney or to reach Pounding Pat directly, write to: Pounding Pat, 9852 W. Katella #462, Anaheim, CA 92804.

this last section was found on http://www.hardradio.com/shockwaves/ron2.html —Preceding unsigned comment added by Mstrbull81 (talk • contribs) 18:40, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Mstrbull81 17:50, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Kill em all

I realize Metallica fans know this but its not something anyone reading the article is going to know and that is that Mustaine was kicked out of the band during their time in New York and was replaced by Kirk BEFORE kill em all was recorded. So although he has writing credits he did not appear on the album. I just find this needs to be stated somewhere in the article.

Mstrbull81 18:24, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

...and justice for all

the article states that justice was their first studio album after cliffs death, this is incorrect, though it was their first album containing original material the garage days ep did come first.

Mstrbull81 19:05, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Garage Days Re-Revisited is an EP, not a studio album. Funeral 19:08, 9 November 2007 (UTC)


Spinal Tap Black Album reference

A citation is requested for the comment that humorous comparisons were made between Metallica's "black album" and Spinal Tap's black album. A member of Spinal Tap (IIRC, Michael McKean) makes such a comparison in "A Year and a Half in the Life of Metallica". Perhaps someone more familiar with Wikipedia can add this citation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 200.72.246.91 (talk) 03:56, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

INFLUENCES!!!

I think there definitely should be an INFLUENCES section. I dont know much about metallica, there fore i dont know all the bands that influenced them. Ramones were one because they have covered a lot of their songs.. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.243.42.157 (talk) 21:15, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

GA Nomination

I nominated this article for GA status. Im not familiar w/ the good article criteria, so will anyone give it a review? Prepare to be Mezmerized! :D 20:28, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

This needs way more citations, it has 10 (I think) [citation needed] templates. Skeeker [Talk] 21:41, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

I counted 11 [citation needed] templates. But other than that, its pretty good. 37 references, NPOV. Prepare to be Mezmerized! :D 02:18, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

That's 11 citations needed. You and I will probably be the only ones retrieving them. But we should cite them properly. EX: <ref name="(name)">{{cite web| url=(website) |title= (title) |publisher=(publisher) |author= (last name, first name) |date= (date article was written) |accessdate=(date you got source)}}</ref> The dates musi be in [[2007-11-24]] format, and after a punctuation, not before a punctuation. Skeeker [Talk] 03:08, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

All right. Thanks for the citations lesson. I needed it. Now I can use it to improve the arena rock article. Prepare to be Mezmerized! :D 20:57, 23 November 2007 (UTC)

GA quick fail

Unfortunately I'm going to have to quick fail this article's nomination for GA status. Articles cannot be promoted with clean up banners in place, and this page bears several - 12 {{Fact}} tags, an 'Expansion' banner for section Thrash metal pioneers (1983-86), a citation needed banner for section Load, ReLoad, Garage Inc., S&M and an OR tag for section Napster controversy. Feel free to resubmit the article for full review once these issues have been resolved, and happy editing! Frickative (talk) 21:35, 23 November 2007 (UTC)