Talk:Metal (classical element)

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Who considers air the equivalent of metal in chinese tradition? That makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. If anything, metal is closer to earth in the western tradition than air. Stregth and stability ARE NOT attributes of air. I have removed this unless someone can come up with a very good explaination why I am wrong.

[edit] Silver is the Archetypal Metal

So lets get this straight. If silver is the archetypal metal, then how can gold be an alternate name for this element? 05:54, 15 February 2007 (UTC)

--81.145.241.248 12:14, 18 February 2007 (UTC)== Symbolism ==

You are confusing symbolism with materialistic reality. Chinese writing is highly symbolic, thoughts and ideas conveyed to paper through pictograms, rather than an idea being expressed through individual words. The first verse of the Taoist philosphical text says something like "The word that can be spoken is not the real word". This is one of the fundamental concepts of Eastern thought. Words are merely used to give an idea of things. They are not the things themselves.

So in this case, (as in all the five elements), "Metal" is the name given to one of the qualitys of energy (Chi) that go to make up existence. Metal is solid and foundational, it can be usefull, or used for destruction. But above all the most valuable quality of metal is its purity which is why it is ideally represented by silver and gold.

Thus it is taken as the symbolic representation of air, which in chinese philosophic "science" is not just the mixture of gases which we breathe, but the vital chi that is the foundation of life.

So, why metal/air? Pure metal is bright, shiny, imparts clarity and clean. It imparts a greater value than it's actual worth (the value bestowed on gold and silver throughout history as adornement). It is solid and foundational as in the iron core of the planet.

And Air? Clean, pure, and clear. Light shines with more clarity through its pureness. It is the pure essence of breath which is the of the foundations of life. The other being the material body. Body needs the breath for life, the breath needs the body for its manifestation into life. Mutual support and dependence, the root of the symbolic yin/yang theory.

Because air is intangible ( air is in fact highly tangible, it's the essence of what it imparts that is not, and that is what we are talking about here). Because it is intangible, it is associated with the more spiritual aspect of life, as opposed to the gross body aspect. Again, symbolised by metal in it's purity and its real but intangible "added value", and the use of precious metals in religion.

We cannot easily translate chinese "words" into western words and assume they have the same meaning. They dont. To undersdtand the words, it is necessary to put then into the context of the huge and very deep picture of centuries old chinese thought and philosophy. This presents a beautifull paradox for wikipedia. We have to use words to describe things, but our understanding must come from looking beyond the words. The words only show the way, the rest is up to us. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 81.145.241.248 (talk) 11:56, 18 February 2007 (UTC).

That was a very well thought response. I think I understand your meaning. OK, I'll remove the template. The air/metal philosophical comparison new to me. Not two things I would have ever held as similar in my mind. First thing I think of is...air light, metal HEAVY. But oh well. Guess eastern thought really IS different than western thought. Thanks again for the reply.

P.S. I think you meant to link to this: Symbolism 24.107.44.119 09:42, 20 February 2007 (UTC)