Talk:Metal: A Headbanger's Journey

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Contents

[edit] Contents

the film uses "Norwegian Black Metal," not "Norwegian Death Metal." Changed it in Contents --69.141.203.252 17:47, 18 June 2006 (UTC)

Despite the length of the DVD (way too short) and the metal sub-genre flowchart, I think Sam did a fine job in creating this documentary. I say it was way too short because it is difficult to condense over 30 years of history, culture, and influence into a film that is less than two hours. But from an academic viewpoint, he did an incredible job. The few documentaries that I have seen have focused on only the history of metal and have focused entirely too much attention to what they consider "metal" (i.e. - glam metal, Marilyn Manson, etc.). And because of his anthropological background, Sam did present metal as a culture, which I feel is important. I would love to see a sequel, particularly if it focuses on the metal culture in Asia and South America. There is much talent outside of the United States and Europe.68.102.147.121 11:54, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] AC/DC

AC/DC should not be under the "original hard rock" but somebody really having fun with put them there anyway. They are'nt in the movie and if you want to do your own list, well, do it, don't ruin this. AC/DC IS NOT FEATURED IN THE METAL TREE IN THE MOVIE AND THIS WIKI PAGE IS ABOUT THE MOVIE! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Klippdass (talk • contribs) 13:27, 23 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Request

Could someone who has access to it put some kind of summary of that flowchart found within the movie? Apparently it can be both navigated on the DVD as well as found in the booklet that comes with the music CD. Someone must have at least one of these. (The DVD isn't released til August in UK, and I'm a little impatient ;) )

  • Well, that chart is a monster, and I think it is far to big to give a detailed explaination, even if it just the connections between the genres. If you go here[1], about three-quarters down the page, some guy re-wrote the chart out. Give it a look, if someone wants to condense it down or recreate it for this page, be my guest, and good luck.

(Matt d84 03:10, 31 July 2006 (UTC))

[edit] That scene with the huge swords after the black metal discussion

Anyone know what these are called? perhaps a link to the wiki entry? 123.100.96.142 10:00, 29 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] sequel

i recently received a myspace bulletin from the century media myspace that read:

"Metal is expanding and evolving and becoming more diverse," said Canadian anthropologist and filmmaker Sam Dunn, who directed "Metal: A Headbanger's Journey," released on DVD this summer. "It's at a much more vibrant state than it was even five or 10 years ago."

Dunn is working on a sequel to the film with the working title "Global Metal" which will trace the popularity of metal overseas, especially in developing countries like Brazil, Columbia and Indonesia.

so maybe after there's more info, maybe a section, or a whole page. ~~Patrick~~ 22:17, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Goth Metal

Was the family tree actually from the film, or somoeone elses design? As Goth Metal and Gothic Metal are different things, and most of the bands listed their are neither of the two.

It was actually from the bonus section of the DVD. Opeth as "goth metal" and Cradle of Filth as Norwegian black metal? It's not like this DVD should be treated as a truthful reference.

yea really, I mean Opeth as Goth Metal, not only is that offending, it isnt true. As a true encyclopedia, shouldnt wikipedia make a point as to that is wrong or something. It sure as hell is false, as is about half the things on that retarded tree.

Hey, guys, ever heard of signing your posts? Anyway, it's not up to us to say what is or isn't Goth Metal, that would be original research. All we can do is report what other sources, like this DVD, say. Kevlar67 05:30, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Please, read the article about Opeth and listen to their music and you WILL hear that they are NOT Gothic Metal! They are Progressive Death Metal (Death Metal with Progressive influences, i.e. Jazz and Blues). Cradle of Filth on the other hand has some ties to Gothic Metal, and are by no means "real" Black Metal. That's a well known fact amongst Black Metal fans, and the only reason people still think they are Black Metal is bacause they claim so themselves. And, being from UK, there is no reason what-so-ever to call them Norwegian Black Metal. If you need proof for that too, then just compare them to any real Norwegian Black Metal band. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.224.4.140 (talk) 21:41, 9 December 2007 (UTC)

Goth Metal and Gothic Metal are the same thing stupid, its just an abbreviation instead of saying Gothic to say Goth. Jay316 20:08, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

i just wanna tell that linkin park is a nu-metal band it is not included in list plz can any one add that on that on the main page of this article i didn`t did it because i don`t know that will it interferring with the copy right act of that documentary

The list isn't meant to have every band of the particular genre included, it is just a list of examples. Besides that, it is just a reproduction of the chart that is included in the movie, and Linkin Park wasn't on it. Matt d84 01:50, 11 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Doom Metal

Surely the film's inaccuracy on the existance of doom metal (Candlemass under stoner metal) and its being a 'close alternative to goth metal' should be noted. Pzekkio 01:13, 20 February 2007 (UTC)


oh my god!! so much kinds of metal!!05:21, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

Dunn got this genre totally wrong... I mean SURE, Kyruss sounds so much like Cathedral (sarcasm)... —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.101.156.35 (talk) 01:04, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Spoiler Tag

I just removed the spoiler tag since the movie was actually a documentury, and you can't really post a spoiler about a documentury :P Talk User:Fissionfox 10:39, 27 March 2007 (UTC)


who in their right mind classifies opeth as "doom" or "goth" metal?


IDIOT

[edit] Norvegian Black Metal

Is this an exact reproduction of Sam Dunns scheme from the film? Can someone tell me what them "romantic-goth-blackmetallers" Cradle of Filth are doing on that list? They use elements from "blackmetal", but to put it in here? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 85.200.11.14 (talk) 03:29, 9 April 2007 (UTC).

I would also question Dimmu Borgirs position in this group. First of all, they are of the second wawe.. Second, there are et least, or if not even more elements of deathmetal and gothmetal than there is blackmetal elements in their music.

Not to mention CoF hails from England, not Norway...

Cradle ARE from England but Sam refers to the style of music that the band plays, duh. Jay316 20:09, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

Concerning vikernes sentence: It is a life sentence. Norwegian law allows a maximum sentence of the number of years one is old when sentenced. Vikernes is serving 21 years in prison because he was 21 years old at the time. A citation can come from the book Lords of Chaos or a norwegian law reference.

Can someone tell me please what's that song which sounds a bit like folk @ norvegian black metal

[edit] Dear Kids of Wikipedia

Little kids jumping in and adding whatever their favorite band is to the chart is getting annoying. THE CHART IS COMPLETE IN CONTEXT TO THE FILM. This means there is no point in adding any more bands to the chart for any reason. As far as the movie goes, these were the only bands included, and that's all that matters as far as this page should be concerned. Stop adding people you think got shafted. Of course plenty of bands have been left out, but the point of the film's chart was to list just a few examples, not everyone ever. Thanks. // Logical Defense 23:40, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Table with Artists, Bands and hometowns

OK metal heads, I created this table thing, and have been adding names from the official movie website as well as more detailed info from Wiki, as I find the time. I'm not really a metal fan, but the movie was THAT good. Anyhow, if somebody feels like organizing it better, or at least SUGGESTING how we may put it into some kind of alphabetical order, please let me (us) know, Much thanks.--RobNS 22:47, 20 May 2007 (UTC)

I think the chronological order of the movie is a good order. --Ifrit 19:34, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
So, do you feel like rearranging them Frit? Cheers--RobNS 19:44, 22 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Manowar

What a fucking idiots!!! Manowar is pure heavy metal!¨not fucking power! Power metal is blind guardian, hammerfall. Did that moron ever heard Manowar. I can't believe it!!! 193.198.173.13 15:06, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Manowar is glam metal! ≈ Maurauth (nemesis~☆) 15:09, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

did you ever seen them. they are pagan's. Pure Pagan Heavy Metal! Not glam! Not fucikg power metal!!!--193.198.173.13 15:12, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

On the contrary, they're even more glam than Twisted Sister, and more power than HammerFall. ≈ Maurauth (nemesis~☆) 15:22, 31 May 2007 (UTC)

Umm... somebody here needs to recheck the MEANING of power metal, because Manowar -- given their album art and lyrical content -- are clearly Power. Thanks. Logical Defense 00:44, 1 June 2007 (UTC)

WHAT THE HELL!!? Manowar is the definative American power metal band! One things for certain, they sure as hell aren't glam metal! Geez...
Oh yeah, and pagan metal makes no sense either. If we're going to label them by their lyrics, they're battle metal!! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.101.156.35 (talk) 01:49, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Judas Priest

I hate to start another genre debate, but this is Judas Priest I'm talking about here...I mean does nobody else think that labeling them Power Metal is ridiculous, ESPECIALLY when Iron Maiden is put under NWOBHM?! Yes I know that what is listed here should be what is listed in the documentary, but what I am suggesting is that something can be mentioned about this mistake, kind of like what's written about the mistake about Varg's prison sentence. Dying2live 20:59, 20 October 2007 (UTC)

Well YAH... of course they are not power metal, they are simply classic metal or MAYBE NWOBHM. Well, at least the guy mentioned HammerFall and Blind Guardian instead of totally ignoring them lie some other metal writers (i.e. Ian Christe) do.
This whole movie is filled with inaccuracies and misinformation. Don't take it as a definitive guide to metal. Metalhead0043 19:54, 31 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Christian Metal

I was disappointed that there was no mention of Christian Metal in the movie, even though it has been, and still is a huge part of the metal scene... all the way from Rez Band (http://www.resurrectionband.com), to Stryper (http://www.stryper.com), to Deliverance (http://www.myspace.com/thebigdlives), to Mortification (http://www.soundmass.com/rowe)! All aspects of metal's sounds and sub-genres are represented by some of the most amazing bands! Check out HM Magazine (http://www.hmmagazine.com) and Heaven's Metal Magazine (http://www.hmmagazine.com/heavensmetal) to see what's up.

Mbgrafix 05:25, 24 October 2007 (UTC)

Yeah, folk metal and symphonic metal would have also been nice additions, but I guess there's nothing we can do about it.
It isn't a different sound, it's just a different lyrical direction. Personally, I've always seen the christian tag as a gimmick, it has nothing to do with how good they are. Plus, it doesn't belong, I am a christian, intrapersonally, but metal comes from hell!--76.178.123.41 (talk) 00:27, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] About the "Inaccurate Statements"

I don't know if the comment on about Vikernes is "inaccurate." According to the wiki page on "life imprisonment": "Life imprisonment is a sentence of imprisonment for a serious crime, nominally for the entire remaining life of the prisoner, but in fact for a period which varies between jurisdictions."

So what's inaccurate about saying Vikernes is serving a life sentence? Perhaps this is only confusing to an American audience? Most other countries have a maximum amount of years for a life sentence.

Maybe someone should change this?

BTW, another factual error(though not a "statement" per se) is mentioned on the IMDB entry:

Factual errors: A diagram of Metal evolution appears a few times throughout the documentary. There is a box with Norwegian Black Metal (Second Wave) where Cradle Of Filth reside at the bottom of it. In fact, CoF are from Suffolk, England and their style little resemble anything near Second Wave sound. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.94.190.45 (talk) 21:13, 22 November 2007 (UTC)

Also regarding the number of metal bands on the filthy fifteen, he has NOT miscounted. As the list is shown the narrator says that "Twisted Sister AND EIGHT OTHER METAL BANDS were placed on a list called the Filthy Fifteen". That makes nine. It is true that Mercyful Fate is not highlighted in red as the others are, but still the number is specified as 9 in the voice over. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 220.101.40.43 (talk) 15:04, 31 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Fair use rationale for Image:METAL POSTER.jpg

Image:METAL POSTER.jpg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to ensure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 13:20, 8 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Helmet

I know that the metal community at large likes to disown nu-metal and alt metal due to the fact it owes more to alternative rock than shred, but i was really dissapointed that the bend most responsible for it was completely left out of the film. New albums aside, Helmet did more than any other band including Faith No More to invent the nu-metal sound and seem to always be shunned in favor of Patton worship. not that he dosen't deserve it, but i wish Helmet could get some credit from metalheads every once in ahwile. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.213.25.226 (talk) 22:58, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Inaccuracies of the chart

In accordance with the interactive chart on the DVD, which is the same as the one in the movie bar one or two additions, there are some major flaws

1.) AC/DC is excluded from Hard Rock 2.) Tool are excluded from Hard Alternative 3.) Diamond Head are excluded from NWOBHM 4.) Children of Bodom have been added to thrash. This is in neither the film nor DVD, and is a complete false representation of Children of Bodom. It's not even a slight mistake, like calling Cradle of Filth black metal or Manowar glam, it's completely the opposite style. It even contradicts what is written on the band's wiki page, aswell as Thrash Metal's wiki page, and near enough every metal page on the net. 5.) Not on the chart, but in the band listings beneath, Extreme Noise Terror are missing from the grindcore section —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.99.36.149 (talk) 19:46, 1 April 2008 (UTC)


Noticed number 4 too. EXTREME mismatch. not in movie or DVD, and also completely innacurate and contradictary to everything on wikipedia —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.178.123.41 (talk) 07:19, 15 April 2008 (UTC)


So CoB isn't on the chart on the bonus DVD ? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Chibi kain (talk • contribs) 16:44, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Ignore the Opeth/C.O.F. complaints

Mainly because the chart represents the view of the film, not anybody elses, regardless of how true it is.

Even if not, Opeth are clearly gothic natured. The genre tags and selected bands are meant to sum up and represent, not squarely define, as this would be impossible. Opeth are a modern band that play drawn out, semi-progressive epics with death metal vocals and tons of gothic melodies and imagery. The artwork, the clean vocal passages, the melancolic guitarlines and atmosphere...all gothic in nature. They were put last in the list of goth bands for a reason, to sum up how far the gothic thing had gone from Paradise Lost and Type O Negative.

Cradle of Filth's case is kind of the same. As much as kvlt kids far and wide hate to admit it, Cradle of Filth (at least in their most popular era) took most of the Norwegian black metal's elements to a different level. Not a better level, or the next level, or the future level or whatever, just to a different level. They took shrieking, blastbeats, tremelo, blasphemous lyrics and the Satanic/Pagan imagery - but rather than replicating Satyricon and Burzum did something different, with the inclusion of vampyric and erotic lyrics, aswell as much more theatrics. Again, like Opeth, they were listed last for a reason - after listing the traditional representatives, they were left at the end to show a successful mainstream band that worked on the old Gorgoroth ethos but changed it for (their own) better. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.99.36.149 (talk) 19:58, 1 April 2008 (UTC)