Template talk:Messianic Judaism/Exclusive MJ

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All Exclusively Messianic Judaism articles, categories, projects, lists I would like to propose that all exclusively Messianic Judaism articles, categories, projects, and lists be included in the template. I don't think a separate source would be needed for this proposal since the articles themselves are sourced enough. inigmatus 05:51, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

User:Mattbr30 removed the project link for reason per WP:ASR. Granted this is a useful guideline in preventing ASRs in articles themselves, however, this is a religious navigation template. Other religious templates have project and portal links. This religious navigation template should not be excluded from the same privilage. inigmatus 22:01, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Um... I see portals on many templates, but that was not what was removed. I have not seen a single religious template with a link to the Wikiproject. -Amarkov moo! 22:03, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Do the majority of portals have links to projects? If so, should I just create a portal to link to the project page? Seems a bit redundant. I mean, I can create one if that is the only way to connect the two: template and project. What do you think? inigmatus 22:05, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

I think that there is no good reason why there must be a link to the Wikiproject. If I'm reading about Messianic Judaism, that's what I want to know about. I wouldn't care about the group that helped write the articles. -Amarkov moo! 22:12, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

(←) I have removed the link again. As templates are transcluded into articles and should be treated as article text (they are only templates because it makes it easier to manage the same content in many articles), they still should meet the criteria for an article in this respect (for example, fair use images are only allowed in the article space and not in templates). Portal links are allowed as they are used to link articles together and showcase them on broad topics (although creating an underpopulated portal may result in deletion under WP:CSD#P2). If you have seen other templates like this with a project link, it should be removed (and you can link to WP:ASR in the edit summary) as there is not an exception to templates about religion (or any other topic). mattbr³⁰ 22:37, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for your contribution to the template. For the record, my emphasis was on this being a navigation template, not a religious template. Thus for navigation purposes, the template serves to expand the development of Messianic Judaism articles, with the project being the central coordinating focus of the extremely small Messianic Jewish editing community. Furthermore, WP:ASR is a guideline, not a policy. As such, an exception to the guideline should be granted in the interim. Unless you have another suggestion to spur development of Messianic Judaism articles other than the use of a project page which can't be linked to a template which is put on articles under development, I think an exception to this guideline should stand for now in specific reference to the addition of a project page link to this template. I await your reply. inigmatus 22:54, 21 February 2007 (UTC)

I understand that you want to develop articles on the topic further, and it sounds like you have a passion for the topic and improving the articles on the site, which is a good thing. But the article space, and the templates trancluded into it, is not the place to coordinate editing activities. This should be done outside the article namespace on talk pages and through project pages, where muct more effective and targeted coordination can be achieved. This is because 'articles are part of an encyclopedia, not part of the Wikipedia project being used to create them', and the content of the encyclopedia is not limited to Wikipedia; it can be used anywhere that uses a compatible licence (for example mirror sites and forks - you or I can even publish the content as long as the correct licence is used) and that is one of the main reasons behind WP:ASR. The purpose of any navigational template (regardless of topic) is to link articles together that have a relationship, so that readers (a distinctly different group to editors) can easily find links to other articles that they may want to read. The fact that they also help editors find other articles is due to the fact that editors are also readers, but most readers are not editors.

The best way to create interest in the project is to ensure that other editors are aware that it exists, and this is done outside the article space because you are targeting editors, rather than uninterested (in the project) readers. This can be done by ensuring it is linked to from related projects, you could post a message on project talk pages letting editors know that the project is about, ensure each article talk page has a project banner linking to the project, and you could post a message on the talk pages of editors that have contributed to the content of articles (not people who have just done a spelling fix or something minor), letting them know that the project exists. Be careful though as some people don't like advertising or canvassing and it could do you more harm than good, especially if you do it in the wrong place or in the wrong way. You can also place links or notices on your user and user talk pages letting people know that you contribute to the project and the articles that it covers. Unfortunately, there is no quick way to get people to join the project or spur development, and the development of a project and the articles takes time. People will only help out if they want to. There are numerous projects out there that have few members and have little development, but they only way projects grow and develop is by editors being passionate about the topic, like yourself, and creating a project that others want to be part of. You can do plenty of 'advertising', but if people don't like the project and its community, they won't join. mattbr³⁰ 00:30, 22 February 2007 (UTC)