Help talk:Merging and moving pages

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[edit] Consolidation of Articles? HELP REQUEST!

I've noticed a lot of combining(unifying) of information into one Page of a Subject... for example P-frame. For me, and I believe for any other user, it is easier to find the wanted information if not such a huge page has to be "scanned"... It also is more Suitable for finding considered the bad search facilities provided by Wikipedia... and it encourages people to write their few knowledge on a very thin part of a Subject(ppl. tend to be overwhelmed by a large Text) also keep in mind there are disabled persons out there who may have dyslexia ... huge articles makes it almost impossible for them to comprehend.

btw. I'm not an ELCH so please don't Troll on that ... only consider this thought on your next "unification raid" 84.183.253.152 10:03, 23 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Contradictory instructions on proposing a merger?

The following sections have instructions which appear to contradict each other:

  • WP:MM#How to merge pages:
    • If you are uncertain of the merger's appropriateness, you should propose it on the affected pages. After sufficient time has elapsed to generate consensus or silence (at least 5 days), you may perform the merger or request that someone else do so.
  • WP:MM#Proposing a merger:
    • After proposing the merger, place your reasons on the talk page and check back in a couple of weeks for a response. You may be able to invoke a response by contacting some of the major or most-recent contributors via their respective talk-pages. If there is clear agreement after two weeks that the articles should be merged (or no response after four weeks), proceed with the merger.

Someone who understands the "real" merger procedure should edit one or both of those sections so the instructions correspond. --Teratornis 14:56, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

See the related discussion above. Zzyzx11 (Talk) 07:01, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
I revised it to read "If there is clear agreement with the proposal by consensus (at least 5 days) or silence (at least 10 days), proceed with the merger." AfD is 5 days and DRV is 7 days and my revision is more in line with these time periods. -- Jreferee 16:08, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
  • It appears the (consensus/silence) date guidelines have been removed. Help! I'm helpless without guidelines! (Not really, but I still think something should be provided). -wizzard2k (C•T•D) 22:22, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
    • Earlier on 30 May User:Radiant! removed the date guidelines as "instruction creep" [1] and made a lot of other changes [2]. There was no prior discussion here and some of the changes look controversial to me. PrimeHunter 01:56, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
      • I added a some of the creep that was paired down by User:Radiant!, who kept the essense of what I and others were trying to say. There is not a whole lot of participation on this talk page, so there's nothing wrong with experienced users editing guidelines without prior discussion. It's possible that User:Radiant! felt "5 days" was too specific to cover all merger situations (e.g., instruction creep), but would agree that a merger proposal should not last 10 months. Your best bet is to post a note on User:Radiant!'s talk page, present a list of changes that you thought should not have happened or could have been done differently, and suggest a way to keep the information in the guideline without it being instruction creep. -- Jreferee 15:54, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
      • Still no guidance on timelines for merging? I would think somewhere between 1 week and 1 month would be reasonable.  Tabanger  22:26, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Multiple merge from

I think it should be {{multiplemergefrom|Page one|Page two|Page three|etc...}} instead of the current format. The current one seems quite bulky and, to me, looks like quick and dirty code. {Slash-|-Talk} 01:20, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Full-content paste merger short cut

Instead of cutting and pasting the content of one page to another it's possible to duplicate the content of another page using {{subst::SOURCE PAGE}} where the editor replaces SOURCE PAGE with the name of the article being merged into the current one. The editor will still have to replace the content of that page with a redirect (or whatever else is appropriate). Sure, it's more technical but it leaves less room for error. Could this be worth a mention on the project page? Jimp 03:29, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Guideline vs. How-to page

While this article already met the definition of guidelines established in WP:POLICY, I have added the guideline tag and category to WP:MERGE here to deal with some obstinate rules-lawyering. I believe that this just puts the right tag on something everyone is treating this way anyways, but feedback here is welcome. Georgewilliamherbert 17:44, 29 May 2007 (UTC)

Um, no. This page describes merges and how to perform them. It does not recommend an action to be taken in a situation. Under your bizarre logic, everything in Category:Wikipedia how-to would be a guideline. That you would do this to win your argument with me is frighteningly sad. ' 19:01, 29 May 2007 (UTC)
Apostrophe is correct; this is a how-to page. I'll fix that up. >Radiant< 10:39, 30 May 2007 (UTC)
This was a significant refocusing of the page. However, I agree that predominately this is a how-to page (rather than a guideline page). Although the page includes some clarification of actions to be taken in a situation (e.g., includes some guideline material), there probably is not enought Merging guideline information to create a separate Merging guideline page. If someone thinks there is, then they should create such a guideline proposal. -- Jreferee 16:12, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Merge discussion request

Are there some merge discussion veterans here who could help out on two articles which don't get much attention? The situation is this:

One editor with ownership issues apparently wrote most of the content in both articles.

Three others oppose the near-blanking of one of the two articles and favour open discussion, inviting participation from more NPOV editors, of whether or not content should be merged.

The "ownership" editor, who has complained that no reasons were given though the other users' reasons are clear in their posts, reduced Subtlety to a stub five times (1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th - the last also removed the {{mergeto}} tag) and removed the {{mergefrom}} tag from Entremet twice (1st 2nd).

The situation is in a stall and could use some help. — Athaenara ✉ 09:35, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

Maybe you could check out Mediation, if both parties may be willing for a 3rd party to weigh in, it might be a good candidate for mediation. -wizzard2k (C•T•D) 14:43, 4 June 2007 (UTC)

As specified, there were four (not two) editors involved prior to this request. Participation by additional editors who are both neutral and experienced may be preferable to process-heavy procedures like Mediation and Requests for comment/User conduct. — Athaenara ✉ 16:44, 5 June 2007 (UTC)

It doesn't appear its purely a merge issue, as it looks like there's a content dispute as well. This content dispute may well just be a masquerade on a merge opposition, but it should probably be resolved first. It looks as though a third opinion has already been brought in for the merge, and it has also been posted at WP:RFC/HIST. -wizzard2k (C•T•D) 18:26, 5 June 2007 (UTC)
3O was offered with followup last week after a request. The editor with ownership issues (who posted the Rfc which has had no results) rejected it. — Athaenara ✉ 03:55, 6 June 2007 (UTC)
Merge help

I saw your request for merge help here. Wikipedia:Proposed mergers is available to solicit outside feedback regarding mergers (particularly those of a controversial nature). If you haven't already posted there, it might be a good place to assist you. -- Jreferee 15:28, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Thank you, I'll look into that. — Athaenara ✉ 00:11, 11 June 2007 (UTC)
Followup: I posted there. — Athaenara ✉ 00:34, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] When is it long enough?

Over at Frank West (Dead Rising) there has been a merger notice since March of this year, though other mergers have been placed for 10 months. I removed the latest merger notice because the merge has failed every time. Currently the merge is opposed 2 to 1. However, User:Parjay, continues to add the merge notice even though it has failed repeatedly for 10 months. I am not familiar with procedure and need advice on how to take care of this. - Throw 17:00, 9 June 2007 (UTC)

Dead Rising is an action adventure game exclusively for the Xbox 360. The game focuses on the exploits of Frank West, a fictional character and photojournalist from the video game Dead Rising. The image of Frank West comes from real life actor T.J. Rotolo. The article Dead Rising is well referenced. The only references for the Frank West are to the real life actor T.J. Rotolo. The merger guideline states that "If a page is very short and is unlikely to be expanded within a reasonable amount of time, it often makes sense to merge it with a page on a broader topic." The noted proposal is to merge Frank West into Dead Rising. This seems to make sense. The Frank West page is very short, and none of its content is verifiable. Much of the content seems to repeat what already is in Dead Rising. The Frank West article originated on August 15, 2006 and is unlikely to be expanded within a reasonable amount of time since no references have surfaced since that time. Battling over this issue is not the best way to resolve this matter. Wikipedia:Proposed mergers is available to solicit outside feedback regarding mergers (particularly those of a controversial nature). -- Jreferee 15:20, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for the input, Jreferee, I wasn't made aware of this discussion. I called for editor assistance on this previously, if you wish to read for more information: Wikipedia:Editor_assistance/Requests#Merge_or_deletion.3F Parjay 15:33, 10 June 2007 (UTC)
This discussion is continued at Wikipedia:Editor_assistance/Requests#Merge_or_deletion.3F and is considered resolved for Merging and moving pages purposes. -- Jreferee 15:40, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] On merger warning again

Like some other users above, I see the need for a special user talk page template that would warn authors of a proposed merger. The similar Template:PRODWarning exists for the PROD process. I've been using my own standard message for mergers like this:

Merger proposal (This is for topic/title field)

Hey, the [[]] article that you once edited is proposed to be merged into the [[]]. You are encouraged to express your opinion on the merger. Thanks. -- Futurano 10:40, 17 June 2007 (UTC) (This is for talk text proper)

Can we convert it in a new template? I'm a newbie so I need more opinions and support about it. For instance, we could include links to WP:MM and automated dates of proposal and scheduled end of discussion, whatever relevant. Brought here as experience of working within the Notability wikiproject. Thanks, -- Futurano 10:40, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

I would use such a template often as a part of the Notability wikiproject. Merging is often a useful approach for articles which aren't individually notable but which fit in to an existing article.Garrie 22:19, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

  • I agree, the warning message seems to be very useful. Merger proposals often get very little attention, so a note on the user's talk page might help. I would propose to include a link to the actual talk page section in the message text, at least as an option. --B. Wolterding 07:32, 18 June 2007 (UTC)
  • Agree Unless I am mistaken, there is no formal steps to adoption of a template. (They can however be deleted if people disapprove) Do you think its ready/ if its used with subst: we can keep making improvements without messing up already-placed templates. DGG 03:20, 20 June 2007 (UTC)

So, what was the outcome of our consensus? Has anybody created the template? -- Futurano 19:29, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

I did not read this section earlier, but I have recently created a template that may be used on user talk pages, {{mergenote}}. I hope a mention of it can be included in this article. I created a new section on this talk page about it here. --Pixelface (talk) 20:02, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Merger template to discuss merge better on Talk only?

I suppose most mergers are too obvious to need any discussion, especially when a merge would superficially seem to confirm the wrong and evil assumption among many editors that hold a merge to be equivalent to a plain redirect. Apparently such a practice would justify the positioning of the merger template on the article header, just to be all of us aware and prepared to the bad merging of occasional merging pirates, that without proper guidance or discussion would inevitably lead to the destruction of information. However, the template being basically intended to boost a discussion, why shouldn't such merging proposals be moved and confined to the Talk page only? I think inserting such templates on top of an article would easily be misunderstood as imperative without-(much)-discussion-needed, even in case some very basic arguments are forwarded on Talk. However, much to often even such kick-off arguments are missing on one or two of the pages involved. I propose this merger template should be invalid without frowarding a proper explanation on all article's Talk pages first, and to avoid the suggestion of authority to a merging proposal all together by not allowing the use of this template on top of the articles, and only allow the template at Talk. Rokus01 20:41, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

  • I don't quite follow your arguments... First, I think the template is best place on the article header because it attract attention there. Editors just browsing by might not view the talk page. Second, I agree with you that a discussion section should be created on the talk page when a merger is proposed. But, please, on one talk page only, and not on all of them. The process is complicated enough already; and the templates include a link to the "correct" talk page anyway. Third, I do not feel that the template on the article header suggests "authority". If so, the text of the template should be improved. --B. Wolterding 16:01, 24 June 2007 (UTC)
I mean, a merger of two articles that need discussion implies some existing controversy that might not be properly addressed by putting a tag on the main article header. A hostile take-over could be involved to push a certain view conveyed on one article only, intending to abuse the context of the other article. Different scopes on same subjects, being either political, linguistic, ethnic, historic or otherwise, may be hard to merge into a balanced single comprehensive article without thorough discussion and agreement. I figured the possible imperative character implied by just putting this tag could also be diminished by tightening the recommended criteria to merge, as exposed in this article, just a littlebit. Rokus01 19:47, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Proposed change

Gidday, I've been having some trouble with different editors slapping merge tags drive-by style on the article Democratic Kampuchea. Generally the suggestion is to merge with Cambodia under Pol Pot (1975-1979). This has happened three times in the last couple of months. The problem is that the DK article was actually spun off from the Cambodia 75-79 history article. This was after some discussion and for the sake of accuracy and to allow for expansion. DK was a political party, a former state, a splinter government and held Cambodia's UN seat until 1991. Whereas the history series article deals with a very specific period of time. These editors bypass the talk pages completely and thus don't see the discussion to create the new article or my increasingly irate rants at drive-by mergists :)

I think part of the problem lies in the this paragraph of the merge policy:

"Merging is a normal editing action, something any editor can do, and as such does not need to be proposed and processed. If you think merging something improves the encyclopedia, you can be bold and perform the merge, as described below. Because of this, it makes little sense to object to a merge purely on procedural grounds, e.g. "you can't do that without discussion" is not a good argument."

I don't actually agree. I think merging is quite a major change and not a normal edit at all - particularly given the potential for misuse by POV pushers or even creative vandals. I think merging should always be proposed on the article talk pages and then discussed to reach a consensus before merging. If people only skim quickly through the policy - I'm AGF here and assuming they actually read the policy :) - then they may not get to the part about controversial mergers and the need for discussion at all. In fact this important point is so far down the page that editors may not see it at all:

"After proposing the merger, place your reasons on the talk page."

Sorry that was a bit long and waffly, to the meat...

Proposals:

  1. That mergers should be proposed first on talk pages as a courtesy to editors working on the article
  2. That editors should check the article talk pages for previous merge discussions before tagging

I'd really value your feedback and comments on this. Cheers, Paxse 12:12, 6 July 2007 (UTC)

I agree the tag should be used in a proper way to avoid abuse. I think it would be helpful to use this tag on the article header ONLY in cases where the merging criteria fully apply, to invite good editors merging information as well, a process quite different from linking another articlename with a redirect to the surviving version (the most common result from a simple merge). Thus, such a tag would be helpful to (re)consider any loss of valuable information.
In ALL OTHER CASES, for instance if the scope of the articles is different (such as involving different scientific disciplines), such a merge should be applied to invite people to come up with discussion and ideas rather than votes: then, the tag belongs to the Talk page. Like this it should be made clear the merge is not an imperative automatism that could be done by applying mere force and without discussion. Rokus01 09:57, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
Thanks Rokus01 I agree. I'm actually a little surprised to realise that article merges are a help topic rather than a Wikipedia policy or guideline - merging certainly has the potential to be used as a weapon in edit wars, so it makes sense to have some boundaries about what is generally acceptable. Cheers, Paxse 19:22, 8 July 2007 (UTC)
  • I agree with (2), i.e. editors should check the talk pages before proposing a merger. I disagree with (1): Actually there are quite frequently cases where articles are obvious merge candidates, and have been unattended for a long time. I often found such articles while clearing the notability backlog, for example. Proposing a merger in these cases is just a waste of time: Even with semi-automation, it costs quite a while to edit these 3 pages (source, target, merger talk) and get all the links correct; and then to remove them again after 1-2 weeks when nobody has responded, as usually happens with such unattended articles. My rule of thumb would be: If the source and/or target page is edited frequently (say once a week or so), one should propose the merger; if it is edited less frequently, there are probably no editors that could be annoyed by a merger, so it is justified to be bold and merge. Actually, the changes can be reverted by any editor, so not much harm is done. --B. Wolterding 17:28, 7 July 2007 (UTC)
I understand what you mean. There shouldn't be any unnecessary mucking around for uncontroversial merges - there are already too many things to do :) I recently came across these two articles ‎Phnom Aoral and ‎Phnom Aural which are the same mountain - now I started the talk pages when I adding project tags - so should I wait for five days and have a vote before merging? Cheers, Paxse 19:22, 8 July 2007 (UTC)

My two cents: merger is indeed a major edit, so proper discussion of merger proposals must be necessary in cases of non-abandoned articles. I guess "non-abandoned" would be those edited at least once a month. Let's make a rule like this. I also agree with (2). What I disagree with is that the mergers should be proposed first on talkpages (1). No, merger suggestion should be done simultaneously with notifying initial or recent author(s). This would help us not to break the WP:OWN rule and to make the process simplier. -- Futurano 19:41, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

I have some problems with the concept "abandoned article" here. Shouldn't the focus of Wikipedia be: valuable information to an international public interested in some free encyclopedic information, not the happy editing Wikipedia community itself. An article could be completely valid, encyclopedic, very interesting to all and still count on just a few updates, possibly for being (almost?) finished, while other articles might suffer from a multitude of busy bees bickering on their POV. I mean, how could anybody aspire to measure quality to the frequency of being updated? Do we have to include vandalism, edit wars, reverts and reverts of reverts? Would it not better to prefer articles that exists in the shadow of all strive and petty conflicts? Especially since merging COULD be abused as an extension to Wikipedia's worst behaviour. Rokus01 13:11, 10 July 2007 (UTC)
Well, perhaps should specify the conditions a bit more: If the target article is already of excellent quality (say it has reached "good article" status), then I would also be reluctant to merge without discussion. But really, if there's an article that's not under frequent editing, so that one would not interfere with other editors, it should be allowed to be WP:BOLD and perform mergers as needed, just like one would be allowed to add sections as needed. Let's not make the process more complicated than necessary. If someone has the article on his watchlist and wants to revert, he can do so. --B. Wolterding 16:23, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

I don't want to be over-critical, I have sympathy to your point of view, theoretically. However, even the "good-article" status is subject to arbitrary decisions and interactions very similar to the kind of edits that to my opinion should not be taken too representative: I've seen articles called "good article" by one administrator, that were subsequently peer reviewed as being very bad. I could give you a long list of high quality, informative and well sourced articles that no one ever bothered to give compliments. I've seen a "good article" boosted by a strong community of pretty fascistic sympathizers that took care some valuable criticism never managed to enter the article; I've seen originally good articles that lost all credibility from the moment more people got involved and felt obliged to add their own nationalistic bias, oppose facts and to remove all objectivity. I've merged articles myself that obviously were abandoned, still I am suspicious of mergers for the sake of active supporters of another article - that might consider the merging of information less important than the incorporation of another redirect to their article. Please be careful to value edits and editors higher than the ideal of being encyclopedic and valuable to readers (won't here be some kind of hidden hitcounter instead to measure customer satisfaction?). Rokus01 20:43, 10 July 2007 (UTC)

Generally, I think that the more strict and severe rules on merger are, the safer is valuable content and the lower is the risk of conflicts. -- Futurano 10:15, 15 July 2007 (UTC)
Sorry to the authors of all the excellent comments above - I've been trying to clear an assessment backlog at Wikipedia:WikiProject Cambodia (600 odd articles) and I've been forced to neglect several messages and this interesting discussion. I plan to use these excellent comments and suggestions to put together a new version of the opening paragraphs that we can discuss/change/approve - soon. Please bear with me (and keep it watchlisted). Cheers, Paxse 10:45, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Page Movemements

Should 'page movements' be discussed first, before actually moving a page. Particularly, if it involves 'diacritics' and/or 'foreign letters' (example - Poland to Polska). Just wondering. GoodDay 17:17, 20 July 2007 (UTC)

It all depends on how important and popular the page in question is. Generally, it is a good idea to discuss about moving the page before actually doing it. --Siva1979Talk to me 06:54, 23 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Archive?

This page is getting a bit long. Users with slow internet connections are having to wait a long time to load the entire page. I feel that it is a good time to archive this page? Any comments about this are welcomed. --Siva1979Talk to me 05:24, 24 July 2007 (UTC)

I only have one comment - Well Done! Cheers, Paxse 15:43, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] When to do a merge?

On the pages which have a proposal to merge, how would one know whether the proposal was approved when there is only one or two comments on the talk page? I'd like to start to do some, but I'd rather not if it just annoys people.-- Matthew Edwards 03:18, 2 September 2007 (UTC)

If you feel it isn't controversial, just go ahead and merge it. I often merge without getting any input at all, especially in cases where I know I will be unlikely to get any comments for a month or more. In such cases you can basically either wait for more comments, search out wider input, or be bold and merge it yourself. I think the latter two options are better than having merge templates lying around for months, and I think we need to try to streamline the whole process so as to get merges over with quicker and get wider input, hence my section below. Richard001 04:19, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Instruction clarity

I am picking up several edits a day where someone has misread <{{subst:DATE}} and is putting subst:Sept 2007, subst: 10:53, 18 September 2007 (UTC), subst: 2007-09-12 etc... Is it OK to simply remove this altogether? Or should we try and make it clearer? Rich Farmbrough, 10:53 18 September 2007 (GMT).

[edit] Managing merges

I think we need a more efficient system for managing merges. How would I find, for example, a list of biology articles with merge template on them? I think we need the equivalent of a stub sorting project. Working with WikiProjects on the matter would be good, but some areas don't have WikiProjects. Richard001 04:15, 8 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] GFDL discussion at R-from-merge

There has been a GFDL discussion at Template talk:R from merge resulting in template changes and change-reversions. We who work with that template have referred User:Geni, who has advocated changes, to here so that arguments can be received by people who are better equipped to address concerns. (See permalink for Template talk:R from merge for state of discussion at the time this note was posted.) --User:Ceyockey (talk to me) 14:00, 27 October 2007 (UTC)


[edit] What happens to categories after a merge?

I have done a couple of merges without problems. There is also an emerging consensus at AfD that vaguely- or non-notable characters should be merged into one major Charactors of XYZ article. So I've started merging several fictional character article stubs into such Character lists, but I wonder what to to do with the character's categories. For example, I have merged Brother Justin Crowe into Characters of Carnivàle#Brother Justin Crowe (I don't know if it's time to de-merge him soon, but that's beside the point). Now, what about his Category:Fictional Christians, Category:Fictional avatars, Category:Fictional rapists, Category:Fictional telepaths and Category:Fictional religious workers? Obviously, I can't import them to the Characters article. Losing them is also a little drastic, so I left them in the original BJC page that is now a redirect. Is this the right procedure? I'd prefer some input before I merge any other nn character articles. – sgeureka t•c 16:24, 21 November 2007 (UTC)

Categorizing the redirect makes sense to me. --DocumentN (talk) 01:07, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Multiple merges

I need some advice here. If there are several articles that cover the same material, how would you start the process of sorting it out? This tends to happen with semi-obscure technical subjects. For example, the position of George Lakoff is described in embodied psychology, embodied cognitive science, embodiment, embodied philosophy and embodied cognitive science. In all of these articles, there are really only two or maybe three different subjects being covered. How would you tag them? It's difficult to centralize the discussion, or even get the attention of other editors. ---- CharlesGillingham 13:27, 4 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Template:Mergenote

I have created a template, {{mergenote}}, which is similar to {{AFDWarning}} and {{AFDNote}} but is used to notify the major contributors of an article on their talk page that there is a merge discussion taking place. Two parameters can be defined: the article name and the location of the merge discussion:

  • {{subst:mergenote | ARTICLE NAME }}
  • {{subst:mergenote | ARTICLE NAME | TALK PAGE WHERE MERGE IS BEING DISCUSSED }}

The major contributors of an article can be found using this tool by aka. Outside input on the {{mergenote}} template would be appreciated. I hope to include a mention of {{mergenote}} in this article. --Pixelface (talk) 19:53, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Need explanation from proposer

I see a lot of situations where the proposer puts up the appropriate merge tags at the top of the articles, but then does not initiate any discussion on the appropriate Talk page to explain why the merge is needed. Shouldn't some sort of explanation from the proposer be part of the merge process? Johnfos (talk) 20:27, 4 January 2008 (UTC)

I really would be grateful for some discussion on this, please. It just seems to be common sense that the person advocating the merge should explain why it is needed, rather than leave other editors guessing. Johnfos (talk) 07:33, 11 January 2008 (UTC)
It is always good form to explain why any tag is added. I've deleted any number of tags for merges, splits, disputed and POV after long discussion, simply because no one can figure out why they were added. However, this is noted on the help page— look for "After proposing the merger, place your reasons on the talk page." There is more on discussion scattered throughout the page. If there is reason to think that this should be more prominent, perhaps rounding up the subject of discussion into a separate section would be appropriate. --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 12:10, 11 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Need help locating records of a merged page

Suppose that page X was merged into page Y months ago. Where can I find a record of the data on page X before it was merged?

(This is most important when the material on page X is severely truncated (shortened) during the merge and the reader wants to recover the lost information.) —Preceding unsigned comment added by Comrade Sephiroth (talk • contribs) 02:50, 19 February 2008 (UTC)

Page X should now be a redirect page. If you don't know the exact name, use "What links here". When you click on page X, you will be redirected to page Y. There will be a backlink at the top showing you were redirects—click that and page X will open. You can then check the page history. --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 11:59, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
There's no process like with AfD where the outcome is clearly recorded with all the details available. If there has been a merge suggestion for an article in the past, your only hope is to search the talk page and archives. If you want to know if a page has been merged with another, you can only really do the same and look in the page history for 'merge', and look at what links here, though redirects from merges aren't highlighted or anything. The redirected page might be in Category:Redirects from merges, but it might well not be, in which case you'd have to check its page history to be sure. Perhaps we should make more of an effort to record the 'merge history' of articles, especially for major merges (or serious merge discussions). Do we even have a template one could use in such a situation, e.g. 'This page is the result of a merge between X and Y', 'Y was merged into this article on DD/MM/YY' or 'It has been suggested that X be merged with this page, but the consensus was not to merge (link to discussion)'? Richard001 (talk) 05:13, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Suggestion regarding defaults

I would suggest that the {{mergeto}} tag by default (if no talk page is specified) direct to the talk page of the same article, rather than that of the article it is suggested to merge into. It seems much more likely that the relevant discussion, if any, will be on the same talk page in that case. PSWG1920 (talk) 20:42, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

I doubt it. The article that it is being merged into will probably be the more 'senior' one, with more people likely to visit the talk page. You would also have to change {{mergefrom}} so that it was set to the other page's talk page, which would be similarly strange. Richard001 (talk) 20:54, 27 March 2008 (UTC)
Since the mergefrom page generally becomes a redirect, the mergefrom talkpage essentially becomes orphaned. If the mergeto talk page has the merge discussion, then editors can figure out the merge more readily. --— Gadget850 (Ed) talk - 21:17, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Making the placement of merge templates easier

We need some automated process or bot to help setting up merge templates. This is especially so with multi-merges. A page where you could just fill in the page names and similar details hit enter, letting a bot or such do the rest, would be nice. A bot that makes sure merge proposals are symmetrical would also be good, i.e. one that adds a merge template to one page if the other has one on it. Richard001 (talk) 20:54, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] How?

How do i request a merge?. Mythdon (talk) 05:14, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Merge discussions

What are the policies/guidelines/etc. that cover merge discussions, which occur on the Talk page of one of the affected articles? In particular, I am interested in the proper procedure for closing a merge discussion. I've read Help:Merging and moving pages#Closing/archive a proposed merger (vague), as well as Wikipedia:Consensus, Wikipedia:Talk page guidelines, and Template:Discussion top, but I have not found anything directly helpful.

For XfDs, the closing editor must be uninvolved and may be a non-admin when admin tools are not required to implement the decision. Some merges may require history merges, while others can be done with cut-and-paste. Should an uninvolved editor be requested at WP:EAR, WP:AN, or elsewhere, or should the merge tags and their associated categories be relied on to attract this uninvolved editor?

Is it ever acceptable for an involved editor to close a merge discussion as no consensus following an extended period (1-2 months) with no new discussion, or does this involved closing always constitute a conflict of interest, as it would in the WP:Deletion process? If it may be acceptable, what constitutes a reasonable "extended period"? Flatscan (talk) 17:44, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

Mergers are generally done by someone who has an interest in the topic. Deletion requires distance, but mergers require knowledge of the subject in some manner to have an idea of what needs to be kept. -mattbuck (Talk) 17:55, 24 May 2008 (UTC)
Thanks for the reply. I guess I'll cross-post my question once this is archived. Flatscan (talk) 19:42, 25 May 2008 (UTC)?
I believe the question is not who actually carries out the merger but who determines whether or not there is a consensus when there is no unanimity? I believe that it's been the practice in the past to request on WP:AN that an uninvolved admin determine consensus when it is unclear. Reggie Perrin (talk) 04:07, 26 May 2008 (UTC)

Cross-posted from Wikipedia:Help desk/Archives/2008 May 24 to Help talk:Merging and moving pages, Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)