Talk:Menshevik

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[edit] RE: Organizations and people who predicted the collapse of the USSR

I added Mensheviks to [[Category:Organizations and people who predicted the collapse of the USSR]] because of this reference, which talks about organizations and people who felt the Soviet Union would collapse:

Shortly after the (Soviet) revolution , Bertrand Russell and Rosa Luxemburg, supporters of revolution second to none, wrote with deep regret that it was impossible that the Bolsheviks would succeed in building the kind of society they professed to believe in. Kautsky and the Mensheviks predicted even more emphatically that the whole experiment would end in disaster.

Laqueur, Walter (1996). The Dream that Failed : Reflections on the Soviet Union. USA: Oxford University Press. ISBN: 0195102827.  p. 188

Signed:Travb 13:25, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

Well, it is certainly true that the Mensheviks predicted that Lenin's experiment would collapse (see, e.g., Sukhanov's account where he confronts Kamenev on October 25, 1917), but so did everybody else in 1917-1922 or thereabouts. Shouldn't we limit the category to a later period, when the USSR looked stable, to make it more useful? Ahasuerus 14:26, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
I don't know. I was thinking about that too. But when is the cut off? Travb 14:53, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
I would think that any predictions made during the Russian Civil War in 1918-1920 or the uprisings and famines in 1921-1922 would be too common to be notable. Then we have the famous intra-Party infighting in 1923-1927, although otherwise the regime looked fairly stable. Then the deterioration of the economy in 1928-1929, which led to the upheavals of 1930-1933, with more rebellions, famine, etc. Then we have a more stable economy in 1934-1939, but on the other hand, the Great Purge is under way from late 1934 on, the eradication of the old Bolshevik elite, accounts of gigantic conspiracies, etc. And then it's WWII time, with stunning Soviet defeats in 1941-1942.
So I guess anything pre-1945 would be of questionable notability. Hm, which reminds me that back in 1951 Collier's Weekly dedicated a whole issue to the "coming nuclear war with the USSR", which predicted a Soviet defeat after 2 years of fighting, an occupation of the former Soviet Union by UN forces and a re-establishment of democracy under UN auspices. I should probably dig it up and add it to the Colliers article. Ahasuerus 15:14, 17 April 2006 (UTC)
Facinating. you know your stuff. I think I will go with post-WWII, Cold War as cut off. Good call.Travb 15:41, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Article is up for deletion

I would like your comments: Wikipedia:Categories_for_deletion#Category:Organizations_and_people_who_predicted_the_collapse_of_the_USSR On every page I post this on, many people start passionate conversations about this. Travb 05:02, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] 2 questions

  • Was 'Socialist Messenger' in English? If not, was was the Russian name?
  • What was the name of the Menshevik party after the 1912 split?

--Soman 08:41, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Mensheviks VS. Bolsheviks

I have 4 questions about both the Mensheviks and the Bolsheviks.

1. Since the Bolsheviks were atheists, were the Mensheviks religious or were they also atheist or were they both?

2. Would Mikhail Gorbachev, his reforms and his supporters be classed as Menshevik?

3. What makes the Mensheviks different from the Bolsheviks?

4. Just like Marx, Lenin, Stalin, and Trotsky were all members of the Bolsheviks movement, was there anybody who was part of the Mensheviks movement?

Note: While i am not signed in right now, my contribution number is 71.116.23.185 apparently, but my page is User:Chamaoloan so if you want to answer me there, you can, thanks.

Thank you.

71.116.23.185 (talk) 08:10, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

User:Chamaoloan 04:02, 26 April 2008 (EST)

1. I don't know for certain, but I would be willing to bet that the vast majority of Mensheviks were also atheists. Religion was not the main point of contention between them and the Bolsheviks.
3. (better to answer them in this order). There were differences, but both Bolsheviks and Mensheviks were Marxists. Marx believed that society progresses from serfdom (like Russia pre First World War) to capitalism (like contemporary Britain, France or America). After capitalism has developed, there is a revolution, and the establishment of a vaguely-defined "dictatorship of the proletariat". After this, the state withers away and communism is established.
Now, the Mensheviks believed that, since Russia still had serfdom, it would need to progress to full-blown capitalist democracy before anyone could think of establishing communism. However, the Bolsheviks believed that Russia could bypass the capitalist stage by forging an alliance between the proles (city-dwelling, industrial wage-labourers) and the peasants. The proletariat was not yet large enough to establish a government of its own, so the country would actually be run by the elite workers & intellectuals, the Party.
2. I have never heard Gorbachev described as a Menshevik. The Mensheviks were defeated in the October Revolution and ensuing civil war, and then scattered around the globe. I do not think Gorbachev's reforms were Menshevik anyway. The Mensheviks wanted to establish democratic capitalism first and then democratic socialism/communism later. Gorbachev tried to introduce democracy to an already-existing state-controlled economy.
4. Martov was the leader of the Mensheviks. You can find him on wikipedia.

BillMasen (talk) 16:31, 26 April 2008 (UTC)