Talk:Men's rights
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[edit] The real problems are not mentioned in this article
There is a MUCH stronger case for the concern of mens rights than you have portrayed, although well done for at least making an article. A few points here are briefly raised, but not in depth and most not at all. None the less, this is the first internet page that has really clicked with me. Thanks.
- Prison conditions
At least a few things to make a start on are: The enormous difference in treatment and living conditions in male prisons and female "soft-prisons".
- Different treatment in the case of alleged sexism is also a problem. And its interesting that this article needs the word "allegedly" while the one about women's rights doesn't...—Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.67.236.235 (talk • contribs) 07:39, 8 April 2008
- I removed the word "allegedly" -- if other articles on rights and discrimination don't need it, neither does this one unless someone can provide a convincing, objective argument for an exception to be made.156.56.201.81 (talk) 20:14, 8 April 2008 (UTC)
- Illegalization of Male Instincts
The Law, which has illegalized male instinctual behaviour such as violence, sex, and many other things. The Media has then successfully reinforced the governments notion, to the agreement of all people.
- Prison Terms
The enormous disparity in PRISON TERMS and sentencing eg. Female offender gets 2, male offender gets 12. Years.
- Military Slavery
Conscription. The fact that pretty much only in Israel are females also obligated to do military service. In all the rest of the conscripting countries, such as Finland, Greece, Mexico, Turkey and Russia, only men are forced into military slavery. Often for more than a Year. This, I think you can agree, is a FAR more serious form of discrimination than any petty wining that we have to put up with from the Feminists.
- If we're talking about slavery, you may want to recognize that sex slavery involves many more women and girls than men and boys...—Preceding unsigned comment added by 199.67.236.235 (talk • contribs) 07:41, 8 April 2008
- Employment
In 'working class' jobs at least, if not elsewhere, the discrimination is absolutely outrageous. Never mind in the work place, Im talking about GETTING A JOB, PERIOD. In bars, for example, it is far more difficult for males, as bosses want to employ attractive females to serve drinks. Babysitting, sadly almost the only 'working class' job where you can travel, is almost exclusively female, with males finding it extremely difficult, if not impossible, to be trusted with babies. Secretaries are very very commonly female, due to the same discrimination. Other service jobs, such as waiting on tables and cashiers, are predominantly female. Even shelf stacking has favored females, due to the universal fashion of overcompensating for the early 1900s. Let me make this clear: It REALLY DOES IT INJUSTICE TO EVEN BEGIN A LIST. I have left out literally THOUSANDS of examples.
- Recreation
Many nightclubs refuse entry to males without payment. Yet they let females walk straight in. It doesnt matter what their claimed reason is, Im sure they gave reasons for baring black people back in the old days too. Free drinks are then given to the women, but the males have to pay. As the entire entertainment industry is now geared around women, who marketing analysts have ascertained have the most disposable income today, the entirety of society will and does discriminate against men in all applicable areas.
- Genital attacks
Are, according to a stage combat specialist I know, the main thing to know about the subject. He says they are 'very, very popular' and indeed they are absolutely rife throughout mainstream media, including 'Scrubs'. Rape 'against' women is extremely stigmatized and persecuted, yet attacking a MANS genitals isnt just acceptable, it is apparently delightfully funny and an absolutely wonderful way to pass your time as an 'empowered woman'. The deplorable offenders neglect to mention that in real life, most women who do this are mercilessly beaten to death, and definitely should be.
- Sex
Dont even get me started on the unbelievable amount of discrimination against men in sex. Men are portrayed in The Media as the ones who need to compete, and overshadow, former lovers. They are stigmatized and discriminated against for ejaculating when they want to, instead of when the female wants them to, for not using condoms, for the size of their penises, for the duration, the enjoyment of the female, and so on.
- The Media
The Media consistently and constantly bombards us with commercials that use conventions and stereotypes of men. Trojancondoms.com is just one example, depicting males who dont use their product as pigs. The corporation does not have to be sexual by any means. Commercials from domestic cleaning agents, to car insurance, to food, all portray the male as the stupid ape, and the female as the one who provides a solution to his stupidity by using the product being advertised. This creates gender roles where women are the smart, cool, sophisticated and innocent gender, and men are the complacent, retarded, pathetic gender. Despite the fact that history has proven that, if anything, it is the reverse. In this media, there are occasionally males who are allowed to appear cool in a 'metrosexual' way, and they are exclusively black.
In all post-1997 mainstream media, the situation is the same, and appears in most movies and, the worst offenders, soaps, dramas and situation comedies. Examples include ER, Desperate Housewives, Sex and the City, CSI, Ally McBeal, and many others, even Scrubs. This elitist, fascist and discriminating portrayal has crossed over to society itself, where females are increasingly disrespecting males to a beyond intolerable degree, in the knowledge that the male coping mechanism - physical force - has now been completely illegalized and therefor women consider themselves immune from justice, with no repercussions, giving them a carte blanch to do whatever they want with no consequences.—Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.65.242.154 (talk • contribs) 13:16, 25 February 2008
[edit] Breast cancer and prostate cancer
I thought it may be worth discussing the inuendo injected into the mention of breast/prostate cancer by user Bremskraft [[1]] which insinuated that the higher funding for breast cancer in the UK is explained by the higher breast cancer prevalence. Another suggestion made by Bremskraft is that mens-rights/fathers-rights/masculist movements should be characterized primarily as "counter-feminist". For more on this user's proposals about men's groups see here: Template talk [[2]] and here: Counter movements/Men's rights [[3]].
The UK cancer figures are: 40,000 cases of breast cancer detected in the UK in 2000 and 27,200 cases of prostate cancer detected in 2000. Correct me if I'm wrong but this suggests a ratio of 4:3. Based on this 4:3 ratio the funding for the two cancer groups is massively disproportionate, and this should be reflected in the entry. PS. This discussion also took place on the Wikipedia Masculism page at [[4]]. All reference to this subject was deleted there by Cailil [[5]] without any attempt to replace it or improve it with relevant sources. [all for the record] Soulgany101 08:04, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
I suggested the following template for this subject: In the United Kingdom a disproportionately higher amount of money is spent on breast cancer research than prostate cancer research.[6][7] Breast cancer is a slightly more common form of cancer in the UK [8] with 40,000 cases of breast cancer detected in the UK in 2000 and which claimed the lives of 13,000 women in 2002, compared to 27,200 cases of prostate cancer detected in 2000 which claimed nearly 10,000 lives in 2002 in the UK. However, as revealed by the most recent available figures, total research spending by government and the leading charity in the field comes to £36.8m a year for breast cancer against £9.7m for prostate cancer. In addition, the NHS spends an extra £72m annually on the national breast screening programme but there is no such scheme for prostate cancer.[9]. This might at least serve as a guide to a representative statement, if references can validate it. Soulgany101 08:18, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
- That seems appropriate if it can be sourced. And just for the record I deleted that section as original research - specifiaclly synthesis - as the references did not show or indicate how it was related to masculism. I think Soulgany101 has made an excellent call in posting this here as it is more pertinent to Men's rights - but it does need a source to verify that it is--Cailil talk 14:20, 3 August 2007 (UTC)
[edit] POV
I've done some work to edit out the brazen POV issues in this article. Men's rights are not in adversary to female rights, yet much of the content of this article reflects a distinct anti-feminist POV. Please refrain from debasing feminists in future edits; such actions only denigrate the cause of Men's rights.
Removed some discussion of wage disparity. There's already an article dedicated to that, and the issue of wage disparity is not to the disparity of Men's rights. Mentions about those attempts at equalization which do unfairly effect men have been left as is.
Also marked many un-cited claims of fact with fact tags. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 216.18.6.29 (talk) 16:27, 31 October 2007 (UTC)
What?! I see absolutely no reason not to 'debase' Feminists. It is the Feminist movement that created the extreme cause for concern for mens rights in the first place. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.65.242.154 (talk) 10:10, 25 February 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Article is unbalanced - "Violence" is given too much weight
The article is unbalanced because "Violence" is given too much weight. Michael H 34 (talk) 23:11, 11 March 2008 (UTC) Michael H 34
I made some suggested edits. More material in this section could be pruned. Michael H 34 (talk) 15:28, 24 March 2008 (UTC) Michael H 34
