Talk:Men's movement
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[edit] Men's Liberation and Rights
It seems to me that all of these groups could equally claim to be working for "men's liberation" and "men's rights" so I wonder if doesn't make more sense to simplify language for the non-feminist, non-mytho groups just as Masculist and Father's rights. Is "men's rights" in the UK and Australia really conceived as only applying to biological fathers? Does anyone who uses the "masculist" label really think that only they are working to liberate men? It seems to me that "masculist" and "father's rights" are much more precise terms, although certainly "masculist" is much less common. Rorybowman 00:22, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
- Masculist and Men's liberation appear to be quite separate, despite their earlier conflation in the article. See XYonline Men's movements An outline and assessment of the men's movement, from Community Quarterly, Special issue: Masculinities, No. 46, June, 1998, (note does not mention masculism). -- Paul foord 12:39, 10 January 2006 (UTC)
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- Seems to me that "men's liberation" ("women's liberation", too) are pointless constructs and should be retained only as historical footnotes. There ought to be a key page called "masculism" and items like men's rights, fathers' rights be no more than subtypes. References to "masculinism" should be removed - I have never, ever come across that expression! And by the way they should not redirect to women's pages as they seem to do now. - celtish 00:04, 21 July 2007 (UTC)plonkeroo.
I agree with everything you said there celtish. simple and logical. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.65.242.154 (talk) 09:12, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] Moved a statement
An unregistered user added the following to the article. It's unsourced and very slanted. I don't know whether it's possible to state some part of this in a more encyclopedic manner. Durova 18:50, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Abusive bullies
"There are men who simply join men's groups as they see men as naturally violent and abusive. So they think a man's group would automatically support abuse, domestic abuse and violence. Such men will often label non violent men with offensive terms. Numerous so called men's groups are simply voice boxes of hooligans, and bullies. Many men's groups do not represent men but simply represent abusive men, but such men normally dehumanize non violent men, so do not even recognize that they are not speaking for all men. It is a fact that some men, simply join these groups to draw attention to themselves. Often seeing this in the same way that extreme right wing parties often attract attention seeking men and women who want to appear extreme. It is damaging to men and women, thAt such abusive men think they speak for all men."
---- The unsourced, unattributed comment "Abusive bullies" beggars belief and is nonsensical twaddle of the worst kind and I'm sure its writer knows it. If I wrote something similar about feminists I would be BANNED. Seems it's one set of rules for the goose, another for the gander. celtish 22:47, 19 July 2007 (UTC) 22:38, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
[edit] Why is the first paragraph pro-feminist men?
what happened to that policy of non-bias? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 4.152.105.16 (talk • contribs) .
You are stereotyping. Men join men's groups for the same reasons women join women's groups.
That is clearly obvious! celtish 22:49, 19 July 2007 (UTC)
The point is that the article is about the Mens Movement, not men who support the womens movement. By name alone the article is out of place "Pro-Feminist". Pro (Latin, ablative:in front of, before/on behalf of, for) Feminist (A person whose beliefs and behavior are based on feminism.). As we can clearly see, that paraghaph does not belong under this heading. KJM —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.34.162.73 (talk) 04:54, 31 August 2007 (UTC)
I second that conclusion. The pro-Feminist section should not appear on this page. Having pro-Feminism advertised on a Mens rights page is the sort of incursion we as Men today expect, but do Not accept. The Judaism page does not feature a pro-Nazi section. Nor should this, please change it. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 80.65.242.154 (talk) 08:54, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
[edit] This is Wikipedia
This is Wikipedia. We TRY to have NPOV but that doesn't mean that the editors will cooperate. Smith Jones 22:00, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
[edit] Move to masculist movement?
Common reference aside, women's movement redirects to feminist movement so shouldn't that be reflected here? I believe it to be more inclusive. Whereas men's movement suggests only men moving for men's rights, masculist movement also includes women in the movement for men's rights, much like feminism does not discriminate like the term women's movement. If there are no objections, I'll move it soon. Tyciol 11:17, 9 January 2007 (UTC)
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- Surely the word(s) "movement(s)" is/are superfluous and meaningless in all contexts? Simply masculism and feminism would suffice and be more rational. - celtish 00:16, 21 July 2007 (UTC)plonkeroo
[edit] Challenge to unsourced paragraph
"The development of the men's movement in the US can be divided into two eras with distinctly different focuses. Earlier, the men's movement was sympathetic to feminism and reached its peak in the 1970s and 1980s. Many detractors saw this approach as emasculating and misandrist. As a movement it was generally not accepted by men, though it gained considerable support from women, particularly by single parents raising boys. More recently, starting in the early 1990s, masculism is more evident, more "pro-male" with a rejection of perceived politically correct gender feminism which was seen as anti-male (or misandrist). It has also been called the "feminist backlash" as a response to the perceived excesses of the feminist movement of the 1960s and 1970s. Supporters of the masculist movement generally reject many, if not most, of the philosophical points of the previous men's movement."
This section is unsourced and in my opinion, it should be changed.
Please consider that members of the men's movement currently campaign for gender equity laws while some members of the feminist movement campaign against gender equity laws.
Members of the fathers' rights movement support the enactment of a rebuttable presumption for shared parenting. Gender-equity feminists and individual feminists also support shared parenting. The National Organization of Women used to support shared parenting, but now they campaign against it.
Michael H 34 16:04, 1 May 2007 (UTC) Michael H 34
[edit] Men's Group Web site
I am one of seven men that have been meeting every other week for almost 20 years. We have recently created a web site that describes our group, and also includes contributions from the women in our lives, describing how they view our group. I would like feedback if this site is appropriate for adding to the list of external sites here, or if there are other better places to include it. The site can be found here [1] --Aludwig12 (talk) 22:44, 15 December 2007 (UTC)
- I believe that it is not an appropriate addition based on WP:Notability and WP:RS. Rorybowman (talk) 02:48, 16 December 2007 (UTC)
Thank you for your feedback. --Aludwig12 (talk) 16:50, 19 December 2007 (UTC)
