Talk:Melitopol

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[edit] Editing the article

  1. If you are a native English speaker - please, fix the grammar, style and spelling of the page Melitopol. Also, if you do not know if your correction will not change the sense, then discuss it here.
  • English: If you live in Melitopol or wherever, and don't speak enough English, it's better to discuss your info prior to adding it.
  • Russian: Если вы живете в Мелитополе или где-либо еще, но не говорите по-английски достаточно хорошо, будет лучше обсудить ваши данные, прежде чем добавлять их.

A. Demidov (talk) 11:46, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Copy edit

There are just a few areas that I think remain unclear either from lack of info or from ambiguity in the wording, though there may be a little awkward wording left. I'm posting here to make sure my changes didn't change the meaning and to bring up a couple issues I think need to be addressed:

  • "From the ancient time, there was a small Noghai aul of Kyzyl-Yar on the place where the modern Melitopol is settled. " -> "In ancient times, there was a small Noghai aul of Kyzyl-Yar where the modern Melitopol is settled."
  • "On February 2, 1784, Ekaterina II issued the decree to create the Taurian Province on the lands that had been won back." Can we get a little more background here? Who won the lands back from whom?
  • I think it would be good to integrate the info in the "Special notes" section into the rest of the article, since this is basically a "miscellaneous" section.
  • I noticed this bit was removed from the article in the expansion: "Melitopol was founded by Prince Potemkin as the village of Novoaleksandrovka in 1784, shortly after the incorporation of New Russia into the Russian Empire." Is it wrong? If not, maybe we should put it back in.

The main thing I think the article still needs is references after factual statements. And of course more info would also be great! Many thanks to Demidov2007 for expanding the article! delldot talk 08:08, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Explanations

I can answer all of the questions of Dellbot.

  • I use contradicting sourses (a little book and Russian Wikipedia). It seems, the book is more correct. I don't know what template I should use, so there must be a lot of ambiguity. When I translate the part of the book into English, I will definitely refresh the data, but I do not use contradicting data by now. I skipped some passages from the Russian Wikipedia, so the article lack info currently. However, I am working it over. Also, I am about to take up the city archives.
  • Ekaterina II won back her lands from the Turkish. I will work this part into the article too.
  • I am going to integrate "Special Notes" into the rest of the article indeed, but first, I need to gather enough info for that.
  • I didn't remove the sentence, I rephrased it, using the Russian Wikipedia info. Novorossiya is "lands that have been won back [by Ekaterina II (from the Turkish)]". It is translated as New Russia. The Taurian Province is the part of Novorossiya. Ekaterina II won her lands back, and His Highness Prince Potemkin (he is always called "His Highness") established a new settlement there. They deported the Noghai to... or from that place (that's the contradiction).

I re-edited the article:

  • Words "district" and "province" are marked as references.
  • "12 kilometers north of the Melitopol" -> "12 kilometers north of Melitopol." Though I am not a native English speaker, I do not think the word "Melitopol" requires the definite article in this case, unlike "the modern Melitopol".
  • "the arms depots of Novobogdanovka, a village in the Melitopolsky Rayon, caught fire, littering numerous houses. The blasts blew out their windows and destroyed the walls." -> "the fire hit the munition depots of Novobogdanovka, a village in the Melitopolskyi Rayon, storing various rockets that began to explode, destroying numerous houses with debris."
  • "Melitopol Cherry" is the property name, but I am thankful for that mistake, I used transliteration instead of translation and the <ref> tag to explain the tranliterated word.

I don't know if I should replace "There is a well-developed, internationally important engine-constructing industry." by "There is a well-developed, internationally important engineering industry."

A. Demidov (talk) 11:46, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New edit

I am glad you looked back over it, you caught some errors I made in meaning (like the province thing). You're right that city names don't need the definite article.
  • I reworded the Novobogdanovka section again. I have it as "caught fire" (i.e. a fire started there), but if this is not correct we should explain where the fire came from (i.e. that it started somewhere else and spread there).
  • What do you mean what template you should use?
  • The engineering wording depends on the nature of the industry: engine-constructing would refer strictly to an industry that constructs engines, e.g. for vehicles. Engineering is more general, and could refer to, for example, design of structures or machines.
  • If the Melitpol cherry grows there, I think that would be handy to add to the section.
It's looking good! delldot talk 17:03, 25 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] New sub section.

I added a new sub section Melitopol in World War II. As for the rest, I didn't touch it today, but I am going to replace engine-constructing by engeneering, because one enterprise of Melitopol produces engines for vehicles, another designs and produces compressors... different compressors, which are exported to different enterprises of the world. I know something about it, because being in college, I had a scientific work relating to it. However, I will save the word engine-constructing until I mention the enterprise in the article... Or it may be done now?

About template... I don't even know how to name my mistake. I actually meant tag. What tag? Well, I don't know. I update the article every day, this contradicts the conditions of the League (of copy-editors). Nobody of CEs will copyedit the article, which is tagged with the {{copyedit}} tag and re-edited every single day. Is there another tag?

As for the cherry, I didn't understand what you meant, to be honest. To what exactly section?

A. Demidov (talk) 18:40, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Re edited

I replaced "not all of the enterprises were renamed" by "no one of the enterprises was renamed", since that was what I meant by "all of the enterprises were not renamed". I don't touch the rest of the article and edits by Delldot until I translate the major part.

By the way, thanks for the new edit, Delldot! Sure, I would notice "began increase" and add "to" but it would take a lot of attention and time. As for "Nazi Germany", I just didn't know if it needed the definite article or not.

Some mistakes are not corrected, but I should translate more text today, and also from Ukrainian Wikipedia. Generally, it contains much less data than the Russian version does, but since Melitopol is a Ukrainian city, the article of uk:Мелітополь doesn't lack info. Actually, I'd add it anyway, but this would take much time; all I have to do by now is to translate something from Ukrainian into English. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Demidov2007 (talk • contribs) 08:10, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Oh yeah, I meant to ask about the not all/none ambiguity, but must have forgotten.
I think the copyedit tag is fine for now, we can get a copy editor to go over it in more detail once we have more info in the article and it's more stable. We can copy edit on a more informal basis until then.
About the cherry thing, the Melitopol#Cherry section currently reads, "A symbol of Melitopol is Chereshnya Melitopolskaya,[8] a type of Wild Cherry for which the city is known." Why is the city known for this cherry? I think it would be nice to add, "because it is grown there" or some such, but I don't know if this is true. Does the cherry grow in Melitpol more than in other places?
Don't worry about the minor wording errors, they're not a problem and are easily corrected. Nice work! delldot talk 10:19, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Edited

Somebody's edited the article and misunderstood the sense of the sentence "officials stated that it was necessary to disarm the depots and that the only measure available to do so was to carry out controlled explosions on a regular basis", this did not cause the very first fire. Please, do not move anything like "Reasons for the explosions vary: " to such meaningful sentences.

A. Demidov Talk 11:26, 11 May 2008 (UTC)