Talk:Melissa Guille

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[edit] Call centre and Odinism

Andrew Guille and Melissa Guille both worked at a call centre in London, Ontario, and I had to sit next to Andrew for a while. I saw him reading the CHA newsletter a few times, and one guy who had been to his house, before knowing his history, claimed he had a life sized posted of Hitler on his wall.

Oh, he also claimed to be an Odinist, a german neo-pagan religion with occasional racist followers. -Unknown

[edit] Supremism questioned

HOTR please site your sources for calling Melissa Guille a "white-supremacist", and a former member of the Heritage Alliance. -Unknown

Attention to posters in relation to Melissa Guille. It should be brought to your attention that she is not a “white-supremacist,” “Neo-Nazi", or any other defamatory insinuations that have been made in the articles posted here at Wikipedia. Furthermore, the “facts” surrounding her personal relationships with people and or organizations that were also posted in the article about her were false and misleading and completely libelous.
She is the leader of the CHA (Canadian Heritage Alliance) and she is Pro-European rights in Canada. Anything exceeding the boundaries of what I have stated herein should be addressed to her personally if you wish to know the “facts” pertaining to her personal life and the organization she runs. (anonymous submitter)
HOTR please site your sources for calling Melissa Guille a "white-supremacist", and a former member of the Heritage Alliance.
I take it you mean the "Heritage Front". My sources for her being a white supremacist include this article from the London Free Press. For her being both a white supremacist and a former HF member there is this article by Matt Lauder who infiltrated the white supremacist movement in Ontario a few years ago. Homey 09:49, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Cancer and duties transfer?

According to a source on the CHA forum, Melissa has handed over most of the responsibilites for her group to a member, a retired man who lives near Hamilton. She has done this after apparently being diagnosed with cancer (Nov. 20, 2005) -Unknown

Do you have a link or any other way we can back that up? Homey 02:13, 21 November 2005 (UTC)
All I have is a PM from the forum. I'll keep my eyes open for more tangible info. -Unknown

[edit] Neutrality disputed

I submit that the facts and neutrality of this article on Melissa Guille should be disputed. The article was created by [speculation on authorship removed] who is known to be personally antangonistic towards anyone on the opposite end of the political spectrum.

Further to the dispute regarding the neutrality of this aricle; "Exposes" written by professional anti-racist Matthew Lauder are not neutral and reliable sources. Lauder is known to be involved with Anti-Racist Action and has repeatedly made defamatory and libellous statements about members of right-wing political groups. Dogmatic 16:31, 27 December 2005 (UTC)

The authorship of an article is not sufficient proof of inaccuracy or POV. CJCurrie 20:33, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
But the blatant position of the author does suggest POV Imstillhere 08:11, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Source from the forum?

The forum on the CHA website has been removed for a little while. Please feel free to reevaluate your facts and tell the truth this time. An article by a reporter that has been in bed with Dick Warman is not a good source. To be called a white supremacist instead of a white nationalist the individual herself must epouse views of supremacy and there is no article that actually states that she herself has said she is superior for being white. This article is being written and maintained by politically motivated and biased individuals. Massive amounts of Unsourced and unreferenced information. I submit that the facts and neutrality of this article should be disputed. (he) is known to be a member of Anti-Racist Action, a violent street gang that has been known to commit unprovoked violent attacks against individuals. Imstillhere 07:23, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

The source for what was on the forum is Richard Warman's sworn complaint to the CHRC. Warman's a lawyer and he knows that if he knowingly submitted false information there would be severe consequences. While one may dispute Warman's arguments I don't think there's a credible basis to dispute his claim that certain words appeared on the site, particularly since, as part of a complaint, he would have to provide printouts. I don't think it's credible for you to imply that his printouts are forged for the reason stated above.
As for the "massive amounts of unsourced" information, please scroll to the section at the bottom of the article titled "sources". AFAIK, all the information in the article comes from the two sources listed,
Homey 14:47, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Evidence credibility

There is no credible evidence to suggest that Melissa Guille is a supremacist. She may be a White Nationalist, some would say even a racist but there is zero evidence that she personally believes she is supreme becauuse she is white. White Nationalism is the belief that all white people share a common heritage and should be allowed to protect and express that heritage. Many White Nationalists also state that other races should be allowed to do this. This is very different from Supremacism which states that a group is better than another or should rule over another group. The articles writter is not neutral and the sources of the article are written by professional "anti-racist" Mathhew Lauder, who has connections to the violent street gang the ARA, and Richard Warman who is clearly not neutral. I therefore must insist that the author of this article has a political view that is causing him or her to taint the facts of this article to suit his or her cause. The sources of this article are nowhere near what is needed for credibility and neutrality. Using Matthew Lauder as a credible source on White Nationalists is like using a logging company for environmental facts. -User:Flameofthewest

"Flameofthewest", by any chance were you previously editing under the name "Imstillhere", "Dogmatic" or any other name?
In any case, whoever you are, the London Free Press describes her as a "white supremacist" [1]. Do you have any mainstream sources that describe her as a "white nationalist"? We have discussed this before (see the top of the page) so rather than rehash what (you(?)) have already said before why not come up with a credible mainstream source that refutes the "white supremacist" description used for her by the London Free Press? Homey 09:42, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

[edit] White Supremacist?

White Supremacist is a term used too loosely and neo-Nazi is a specific term. In order to call someone a neo-Nazi, you have to prove they hold the Nazi ideals, otherwise it's slanderous. If you call someone a white-supremacist, you are implying they hold the white race higher and you have to show that they have said that (aside from a media article that uses the word improperly). A racist is a good enough term. There is no need for ignorance.

I don't know who flame of the west and i might have an idea who Dogmatic is, but Homey, is there a change you are editting articles until HOTR and AndyL as well? 3 admin accounts to the same person. That's interesting. Is that in the AUP? Imstillhere 02:30, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

I have no problem using the word "racist" to describe Melissa Guille.

"3 admin accounts to the same person." It seems counting isn't one of your strengths. Homey 07:06, 26 January 2006 (UTC)

Someone recently asked me about the logic of listing MG as a racist. I would refer that individual to this discussion. CJCurrie 21:34, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Reader's Digest

There was an article in Readers Digest a few months ago about the spy who infiltrated the CHA, I recall there was a lot of info in there, it might be something to check out. Sorry, I don't have the month, I just recall it was there. Tawker 06:34, 24 February 2006 (UTC)

Are you sure it wasn't the article from the June 2005 issue of Reader's Digest that you are remembering? It was about Grant Bristow and his involvement with the Heritage Front. Dogmatic 01:49, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Find a new reference

The link purporting to show that the CHA was formed as a "broad based racist group" does not in ANY WAY WHATSOEVER demosntrate that point. In fact, after reading the link, and re-reading the link, I find it difficult to see where it even discusses the idea. I have removed the unsourced allegation, and will continue to do so until a better source is provided. -Unknown

[edit] Wilfred Laurier

I got curious reading both this and the Heritage Alliance article which mentions Ms Guille studying at the University. Did she complete a degree there, or choose a major or something? I'm kind of wondering what kind of subjects, like if was political science or... honestly it could be anything, veterinarianism? *shrug* Tyciol 16:56, 8 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Stubbed

I have stubbed the article after the subject has emailed complaints to the Foundation. The article in its previous form made assertions that exceeded what the references supported, and relied upon references that do not meet our sourcing requirements for the derogatory material they contained. Please rebuild the article with careful attention to sourcing. Any potentially controversial assertion should be sourced. Only reliable sources should be used. The Uninvited Co., Inc. 02:02, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

An activist who "some claim" is linked with? Give us a break.
I set out to rewrite the stub form scratch, to kill the history. You know what? I did not find anything that approaches a neutral source. Fewer than a thousand hits on Google, including mirrors, nothing at all on Google News, nothing on Factiva. Same for Canadian Heritage Alliance. That's not to say the stories are false, only that I am having a really hard time finding anyone who has picked them up and run with them. Other than Wikipedia. Guy (Help!) 14:06, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
I'm sorry, but I don't think that there's any source that could be said to be neutral. If you're inclined to find biases, you're going to find biases. That doesn't mean that the source isn't legitimate though. AnnieHall 03:00, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
I'm not surprised. That being the case, I agree that deleting the page is indeed the best move. The Uninvited Co., Inc. 15:43, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Redirected

Now that this article is no longer WP:SALTed, I've created it again but only as a redirect to Canadian Heritage Alliance. If/when someone creates a real article here, please linkify "Melissa Guille" in Canadian Heritage Alliance. Cheers, CWC 05:11, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

I'm very willing to re-write the article, however I fear that my efforts could prove to be in vain since some editors have decided that some sources are biased and/or not legitimate (such as those found at Canadian Content) without providing details as to why. I think there needs to be a discussion about what is and what is not a legitimate source, otherwise the task of re-writing the article will prove to be an exercise in futility. AnnieHall 05:46, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
As I understand it, the Guille will be tried by the Canadian Human Rights Tribunal soon. Surely that will generate some coverage in major newspapers, coverage we can use without question. BTW, I found some possibly-useful links at bnaibrith.ca and listed them at Talk:Canadian Heritage Alliance. Cheers, CWC 08:27, 16 April 2007 (UTC)
I believe canadiancontent.ca meets Reliable Source guidelines. Does anyone still disagree? Having said that, I understand that the canadiancontent.ca story is a firsthand account by a PhD candidate rather than the work of an experienced, professional journalist. So for highly controversial statements I'm not crazy about using it as a lone source. Comments? Kla'quot 18:03, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sections removed

On June 9, 2007, I copied and pasted this full article to my PC. In comparing that copy to what I read her today, there are several sections that have been deleted. The information contained in the missing sections are verifiable and can still be located on the internet on other sites. I am interested to know on what basis the mentioned missing sections have been removed.

I have added part of these sections back in with some editing. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Lanybright (talk • contribs)

I deleted that stuff. I was being ultra-careful about the rules for Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons, partly because Ms Guille has lodged a complaint with Wikipedia in the past. (I was too lazy busy to search Stormfront myself, plus I don't like reading Stormfront.) But now that user:Lanybright has linked to the Stormfront thread[2] on "What Paul Fromm and other Freedom Fighters in Canada have to put up with", it's clear that Ms G is happy to be associated with Stormfront, so I no longer see any problem with that stuff. Cheers, CWC 10:22, 15 June 2007 (UTC)