Talk:Meles Zenawi

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Contents

[edit] Proposed Link

Hi, I'm working with The Pulitzer Center, a non-profit journalism agency geared towards providing audience to underrepresented news stories. I'd like to link this page to a related articles on the Pulitzer site; http://www.pulitzercenter.org/showproject.cfm?id=29 concerning US and Ethiopian relations, Please let me know if I can post these links. Many thanks in advance. Blendus 20:24, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Needs Attention/POV

I have added the templates for "Needs Attention" and "Neutral Point of View." Gyrofrog 18:48, 16 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Removed POV content (which bordered on vandalism). Thus I'm removing the "Needs Attention" and "Neutral Point of View" templates. Also added link to EPRDF article. Gyrofrog 00:36, 23 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Would the prime misnister argue his father Negadras Zenawi was once involved as an informant to the enemy(england colonialist)and he got crowened by the U.K because of this and his faher had to flee to Eretrea because Tigrian women refused to marry him because of this cercumstance Meles is half Eritrean and half Ethiopian and that is whay he is wabbling when it comes about the future of those two countries?

[edit] Borderline vandalism

I have reverted this article, thus removing the edit submitted by 149.99.45.38 at 00:02, 25 Jan 2005. Note that this is very similar to the edit submitted by 192.30.202.9 at 23:09, 14 Jan 2005, so it's happened before and I'm afraid it will probably happen again. (See my edit under "Needs Attention/POV.")

I am giving this person (or persons) the benefit of the doubt by not considering this to be outright vandalism, since it actually does pertain to the subject of the article. (If anyone thinks I am being overly generous in this regard, please let me know.) I was actually ambivalent about deleting the entire edit, because it might not actually be vandalism.

However I am not so tolerant or generous that I would bother cleaning up the inflammatory epithets, POV, and multiple errors of grammar and spelling just to "balance" the article's POV. If the person(s) who submitted this edit would get a username, refrain from using descriptions such as "Uncle Tom," and engage the other users here at the discussion page, than I might feel differently. Gyrofrog 19:32, 25 Jan 2005 (UTC)

Some people are deleting big portions of the article for no reason. You guys,who are"reverting", are very dedicated. lol The article might need to be locked for vandalism. who agrees?


[edit] Oddity

Asking to see if I'm the only one, but when viewing this discussion page, the "article" tab at the top says "progpaganda" and when viewing the article it says "trash". siafu 05:35, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I don't see it. I even tried changing different display skins. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 06:03, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Odd -Joseph E. Stiglitz seem to think he is a great man

I have a feeling the person messing up with this article is from Ethiopia. I can't even believe someone would raise such a childish topic that the guy is not circumcised. I really hated this kind of thinking, really backward and i am not trying to be an elitist here. I am from Kenya, and let me tell you, most of my fellow Kenya's are completely brain dead. Basically, there are prepared to vote in a murderer, if the only other option is circumcised man. I have never fugured that out

In his book Globalization and its discontent, page 27 Stiglitz says the guy is trained as a doctor, but have also put a lot of hours to formally learn economics. For those who are asking what he intends to do for the poor, look elsewhere please. I think that question should be directed to IMF. According to Stiglitz, and i quote "Meles showed that, with the right policies in place, even a poor African countries could experience sustained growth. After years of war and rebuilding, international assistance was beginning to return to the country. But Meles was having problems with IMF" end of quote.

See IMF suspended its programs in Ethiopea because of actions that they guy took to mitigate poverty. For example, he paid up a loan to an American bank early. His reasoning was, since the interest the government was earning from reserve was less than the interest the govenment was paying for the loan, why not use the government reserve to pay up the US bank loan immediately. Very sound financial decision. Believe it or not, this was one of the reason to can the Enhanced structural Adjustment facilities program. This is not in Stiglitz book, but my guess is, IMF was not happy because when the loan was cleared asap, the US bank lost a chance to earn a comfortable interest

This book is full incidents like this. Brother, before you go nailing this guy, look for "Globalization and its discontent" and you will find yourself looking at the world in a completely different perspective. The world is more complicated than it seem on first look. I was like you sometimes back.

Thanks for your comments, interesting stuff. Well, unfortunately, it seems that the perpetrator would rather post his comments directly in the article rather than here on the Talk page (well, I take that back, he did post one comment further up the page, but not very useful, certainly doesn't justify what he put in the article). I myself am not a big fan of Meles, but I would never write that sort of comment about anyone (at least not in Wikipedia). FWIW the same person was also messing up the Ogaden article (well, someone with the same IP address, anyway). -- Gyrofrog (talk) 23:23, 11 Apr 2005 (UTC)

[edit] POV

The current version of the article contains the line "Mr. Zenawi true autocratic leadership style - long known to Ethiopians - is being revealed to the rest of the world." This is biased unsourced commentary and I would appreciate it if someone would find a NPOV rewording. - BanyanTree 21:27, 15 December 2005 (UTC)

I've removed the line; there are other assertions in the article that cite references and the reader should be able to draw his or her own conclusions. I'm still thinking about the remainder of the paragraph. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 21:38, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
I've gone ahead and removed that as well. I reverted to this version following some vandalism earlier today. The same editor of the version to which I reverted had gone on to make another edit that could be considered vandalism [1]. Taken together I'm not sure any of these edits were made in god faith, and I should have reverted to an earlier revision. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 21:45, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
Hi Gyrofrog, Thanks for your edits. That certainly removes the "Zenawi is a ravening power hungry dictator" POV that I was talking about, but now this version veers towards apologism with its "aw shucks, he's a good man doing a hard job" ending. I suppose that this version is better than the other, but hopefully it'll balance out over time. Cheers, BanyanTree 21:56, 15 December 2005 (UTC)
Yes, sorry about that, but I didn't want to leave it as it was. FWIW, while it was probably inteneded to balance out the tone of the preceding paragraphs, the "pro-Meles" paragraph does not cite any references. Rather than whacking the paragraph, though, I think the entire article could use a rewrite (which I don't have time for just now). In the meantime I'll just watch for additional PoV edits. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 22:32, 15 December 2005 (UTC)


This is about tag cleanup. As all of the tags are more than a year old, there is no current discussion relating to them, and there is a great deal of editing done since the tags were placed, or in some cases it's clear there is a consensus, they will be removed. This is not a judgement of content. If there is cause to re-tag, then that of course may be done, with the necessary posting of a discussion as to why, and what improvements could be made. Better yet, edit the article yourself with the improvements in place. This is only an effort to clean out old tags, and permit them to be updated with current issues if warranted.Jjdon (talk) 23:45, 28 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Should'nt there be a little list of pm at the bottom?

Should'nt there be a little list of pm at the bottom? —the preceding comment is by 69.116.155.49 - 22:16, 25 February 2006: Please sign your posts!

Do you mean a list of Prime Ministers? I think that would be quite a short list; has anyone else actually served under that title? -- Gyrofrog (talk) 22:52, 25 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Ditto/Thanks

[edit] criticism

[edit] anuak

please explain in detail


[edit] Anuak Genocide?

In the above article on Meles Zenawi, there is a section entitled Anuak genocide which seems to be dealing with the civil unrest and massacre which took place in the Gambella region of Ethiopia in the month of December 2003. My question is this: who declared it a genocide? What is the writer's reference in stating what happened was a genocide?

An act or disturbance, according to the 1948 genocide convention, has to fulfill a set of strict criteria to be labeled a genocide. Labeling an act a genocide requires a deliberate and thorough investigation as it invariably entails an intervention by the U.N and all signatories to the Convention. While the events of December, 2003( Gambella) are sufficiently well documented and known to be a civil disturbance in which many Anuaks died, they have not been labeled a genocide by any authority or agency. Secondly, I am still wondering what this has to do in Meles Zenawi's biographical article. The December,2003 civil disturbance in Gambella were NOT instigated by Meles Zenawi.It can be mentioned it happened on his watch, but in its present form in the Meles article, is very misleading. This is an issue, I believe, which should have its own expanded entry elsewhere- of course- with a referencing and documentation up to Wikipedia's standards. --Ironinmohscale 12:06, Dec.15,2006

I am going ahead and changing the title "Anuak genocide" which is historically inaccurate and misleading to the "Gambella incident" which probably is nondescript until we get a better title.The latter may be neutral but does not suggest any historical inaccuracies. --Ironinmohscale 12:21, December, 2006
In fact I am deleting the section altogether as theres little that is relevant to Meles in any form.--Ironinmohscale 12:35, December, 2006
The section is important. To delete it would be POV (which the article already is, anyway). Amnesty international is who called it genocide, btw. I am restoring the section. — ዮም | (Yom) | Talk • contribs • Ethiopia 20:34, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] election

[edit] I second that motion

. And Yob, thanks for helping me. Meles is the only pm,so there is no need for a list

[edit] Eritrea

Since the Eritrea paragraph seems to be presenting Eritrea as the sole perpetrator in the problems that Ethiopia and Eritrea have had since Eritrean independence, I think it should be mentioned that Meles Zenawi's regime expelled at least 3,000 and according to Amnesty International estimates 50,000 Eritrean citizens of Ethiopia during the Eritrean-Ethiopian war due to their heritage. "CBC News"

Badme is Eritrean territory and not Ethiopian according to an UN boundary commission. Thus I shall remove anything stating the contrary. --82.156.100.120 14:02, 22 December 2006 (UTC)


It would be far more productive if you simply discussed why you think the contrary is wrong. If you announce to one & all that you will revert edits you disagree with, you will find yourself in the end banned from editting Wikipedia. There is nothing wrong with being enthusiastic over what you believe, only in how you express that enthusiasm. Please try again. -- llywrch 01:26, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

I have only edited factual errors. I have not edited anything in this article, because of my personal beliefs or thoughts. I am concerned about the neutrality of this article, but I have written about that on the discussion page. So, exactly what should I try again? --82.156.100.120 14:02, 22 December 2006 (UTC)

I don't know who has edited it now, but the Eritrea paragraph is a mess now. Someone should revise it.82.156.100.120 21:10, 3 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Question

In line three of the third paragraph in the Interim to PM section of this article it calls the police force illiterate. While I don't know for sure if they are or not, it's not relevant in the context it's used in. Just wanted to point that out. Thanks.--Ryan 15:06, 28 December 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Edit war discuss here

Whats up with the edit war. Also see Wikipedia:Footnotes for the format needed for footnotes. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Halaqah (talk • contribs) 09:26, 4 January 2007 (UTC).

[edit] Is this propaganda?

Is this propaganda or is there any founding to it?

"Also according to RAND corporation, several Al-Qaeda fugitives had "found sanctuary in Somalia" and exploited the lack of government.[1] There were also several Al-Qaeda operatives identified in southern Somalia. [2]Despite Western interest to solve the problems in Somalia, RAND claims that world powers have failed to practiced their will, particularly in financing the peacekeepings and humanitarian assistance. In addition other analysts have identified documents and Al-Qaeda letters to increase their involvement in Somalia.[3]" Somnabot 15:52, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

Well, it's been widely alleged that al-Qaeda members are in Somalia, but exactly what this means is not clear. And I doubt that RAND would explicitly state unequivocally that "world powers have failed to practiced their will, particularly in financing the peacekeepings and humanitarian assistance". There's alot in this article that needs pruning out or reworking; at the moment, this reads more like an official biography, rather than a useful Wikipedia article. -- llywrch 20:53, 10 June 2007 (UTC)


[edit] Political Prisoners

I was wondering whether or not someone should add the part where the opposition members of the government were charged with multiple crimes, and sentenced to life in prison. This present article presents Meles as a saint, while in fact he is basically another African dictator who crushes dissent and any opposition to his government. -- User talk:yardalhirji 14:49, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

You should read Criticism & scandals section if you enjoy making Meles look like "another african dictator" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.249.27.125 (talk) 15:15, 28 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] WikiProject class rating

This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 23:45, 27 August 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Far too long

While some discussion of his policies is inevitable, this is supposed to be an account of Zenawi's life, not an exhaustive listing of his actions while in office. I suggest serious cuts, plus toning down of POV (which is present) and grammar fixes. Biruitorul 21:41, 30 September 2007 (UTC)

I agree. The Teaching history subsection, in particular, seems better suited for History of Ethiopia (though not as written). Frankly it seems like the text was shoehorned in to make a point. The single citation doesn't corroborate the sentence to which it is attached, though it does back up the previous sentence. If it can be better attributed, and the PoV toned down, then it really belongs in another article - the TPLF is mentioned but there's nothing specifically about Meles. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 13:35, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
Likewise, school expansion as well as the aformentioned section might be better suited for Education in Ethiopia than this article. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 16:03, 24 October 2007 (UTC)
Gyrofrog, you told me to move my discussion here from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:Gyrofrog#Question_2 Anyway, in my other explanation, i think i fully described the reason to you why it is one of the most important aspect of his party's identity. (Let me know if you still don't understand why it is important) Anyhow if there are any references that disprove that quote, you should bring it. Though i doubt one would easily find online info for African affairs, if someone finds additional reference, that someone can add it anytime. Until then, that important info shouldn't be removed. If you want, i think you should and you can label it "[dubious – discuss]". But the quote is too important to leave out. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.249.27.125 (talk) 13:38, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
The quote is from a blog, which is not a reliable source. If you can't find an exact quotation then you should not include the quote. I don't see the use in tagging a quotation with {{Verify credibility}} (or similar) when we've already established that we don't have a reliable source for the quote. As for the section itself, if the information is specifically pertinent to Meles Zenawi then it needs to be rewritten. As it currently reads, though, it is out-of-place in this article. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 13:59, 29 October 2007 (UTC)
P.S. As the person adding the quote, the burden of verification is on you. You don't have to take my word for it; I see that another editor has already reverted your edit. -- Gyrofrog (talk) 14:21, 29 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] NPOV

Emotions run way too high among editors who have contributed to this article. Someone without ties to the region should rewrite the many NPOV-violating sections. --NEMT (talk) 00:04, 27 May 2008 (UTC)