Talk:Mel Gibson

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[edit] Awards? aqua teen hunger force?

can someone explain the "freed the slaves award" listed under awards with characters of the tcv show aqua teen hunger force being other winners of this award? if not it gets removed! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 140.247.53.147 (talk) 16:41, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Why is this here?

In trivia: "In the February 7, 1983 edition of People magazine, actor/comedian Jerry Lewis claimed that he was outraged by a slew of anti-Semitic epithets that actor Robert De Niro directed at him during an exercise in method acting during the filming of a movie." What does this have to do with Mel Gibson? 24.22.104.180 19:07, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

I agree, and I just removed it earlier today for the second time.Nightscream 05:26, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

It doesn't make sense because the above entry had the important part edited out which was that the offending words of De Niro's were virtually identical to what Gibson said to the Malibu policeman. Don't you think that is information that is valuable for the reader to have? Perhaps not in trivia but in the section about Gibson's anti-semitic comments? I'll await your response before I reinsert... (sorry if I'm not doing this comment right as I'm new at this!)—Preceding unsigned comment added by Tkondaks (talk • contribs) 14:06, 19 May 2007

That is completely irrelevant to this article. Why not quote the millions of other anti-smites? Ridiculous.
--Faithlessthewonderboy 22:54, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
  • Faithless is right as far as they go, but says far too little:
    Lewis might well resent whatever R.deN. said to him, but saying deN. saying it in an acting exercise is worlds away from sincerity, and probably from trying demean Lewis for its own sake, as opposed to putting Lewis into a useful state of awareness about how Lewis would feel about being sincerely demeaned. DeNiro may have made an error in judgment, and there's a presumption that he did if (as it sounds) Lewis went away mad, but even if that's the case, the incident probably says far more about either Lewis or the hazards of method acting than about DeNiro's.
    Now, if Gibson knew that story (apparently not in evidence), that would raise the fascinating question of whether Gibson, when drunk, reads his lines from DeNiro-written speeches that he stashes in his limbic system. But WP is NOR.
    So it was wisely removed.
    --Jerzy•t 03:35, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Lack of criticism

I think the article is far too uncritical of Gibson's stated opinions. It reads like it was closely combed through by his PR people, which is exactly what I would insist on if I was in Gibson's position. How can this be avoided? Certainly not by locking out editorial contributions from other parties who may have something to add to the article. He's controversial, so let the controversy run. And don't forget that Gibson will steer it and profit from it if he can. He's rich enough to bring a hundred libel suits.

Hi. First, please sign your posts with four tildes (~), as it is customary. If you want to discus this issue, we encourage you to do so in a more relevant section on this page, and if there isn't one, create one. Make sure you do so at the top of the page, and place two "equal" signs on either side of the new section title, as I have done here. As to your question, can you cite passages that you feel reflect a lack of criticism and a bias in his favor? There is an entire section on things for which he is controversial and criticized, including several subsections each devoted to accusations leveled at him regarding his film work. Nightscream 05:26, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Quotations

There are a lot of quotations on the article and that's not counting the things he said during his drunken incident. What would be best, is to leave three and post a link to Wikiquote where the rest can be found. That is what is typically done for Bios. I've added the wikiquote link under the external links.--Twintone 21:11, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

I completely agree with this.98percenthuman 10:05, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Allright. Fwend 14:04, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Done. I just took the first three with references. If someone thinks that they should be switched for something else that's fine too.--Twintone 15:23, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
And now it's been reverted back. Wikipedia is used for encyclopedic entries and WikiQuote is used for the quotes. Other bios have just a few or no quotes at all even from people more famous for their quotes (i.e. Winston Churchill, Steven Wright, Mitch Hedberg) If it's not limited then there is no reasons to not put up every verifiable thing Gibson said. I think we should consider reverting back to just a few quotes and linking to WikiQuote for the rest. It keeps Wikipedia more encyclepedic. Also if you incorporated specific things he said relating to areas in the article (i.e. his controversies etc) it would be more appropriate. Having a blanket section for all of the things of note he said doesn't seem to fit with other bios on Wikipedia (I mean they don't even have quote sections for Churchill or FDR and didn't they say more important things of note?)

I'm going to revert back to my original change. Blue Tie feels there needs to be a concensus before removal, and I agree, but I feel the Wikipedia community as whole would agree (and so far everyone who has said something is in favor.) Furthermore, I'm using the removal of the Quotes section from Winston Churchill as a precedent. See below:

Quotes A new "Quotes" section was added recently:

"There is a forgotten, nay almost forbidden word, which means more to me than any other. That word is England." Winston Churchill "The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter." Winston Churchill It was cut today, but I have restored it. Yes, I know that this article is way too long, but I do not think that that is a reason to chop out some tasty meat, when there is flab --Mais oui! 13:59, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

I'm going to suggest we cut this again. The main reason is that we already have Wikiquotes, with an extensive Churchill section. Everyone has their favourite Churchill quotes, and it's hard to see how a section like this could avoid growing to a size we are trying to avoid. Can we seriously have a quotes section without blood, toil, tears and sweat, without the Few, without fight them on the beaches, without Iron Curtain? And those were just the ones I came up with immediately. Why waste valuable space duplicating something already win Wikiquotes? DJ Clayworth 14:18, 8 December 2005 (UTC)

Remove I agree with DJ Clayworth - I cut the quotes section earlier for precisely this reason. Wikiquote is a more appropriate place for quotes than wikipedia (& we already have a direct link to the wikiquote WSC page) & it is inevitable that any quotes section would grow & grow. AllanHainey 14:52, 8 December 2005 (UTC) If the Quotes section is retained, I suggest it contains a smallish number of well-known or notable quotes. The current selection is poor and unrepresentative. Ben Finn 15:22, 29 December 2005 (UTC)

If a case can be made about why all of those things are wikipedia worthy and can be justified as a seperate section, I'm willing to listen. They are definately interesting and verifiable statements but I don't know if this is the right place for them.--Twintone 16:00, 29 August 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Photo

Can we open the discussion of a picture up. This is one of the only articles of a major celeb without a headshot of some sort. Again, the DUI photo shouldn't be used because its POV and that drawing looks more like John Stamos than Mel Gibson. RiverCampa 19:37, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

The problem is that some people here only want to accept a picture that's in the public domain, like a photo made by a fan. Anything else gets deleted (or commented out). Fwend 20:56, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
I've added an appropriately-licensed photo that hopefully won't meet with too many objections. —Chowbok 01:51, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
Great! Good job on finding that one. Garion96 (talk) 01:55, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
Good, goody. Keep it. ResurgamII 02:10, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

I contend that there is nothing wrong with using the mug shot. It is recent and accurately depicts the individual. That is has negative connotations is a subjective attribute that is in the eye of the beholder, and as such is an attribute that applies to any and every picture. The latest available picture should be used. If it's the mug shot, so be it. If Mr. Gibson or his publicity organ would like to provide a copyright acceptable pic, or there is some other source, that would be better. But I see nothing wrong with the mug shot, as I said it is an accurate depiction, how can that be POV? Jake b 16:41, 8 September 2006 (UTC)

The current photo is far too old; 17 years is a long time. A new picture really ought to be found. Eedo Bee 12:35, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Mad Max

This was mentioned before somewhere in some past discussion. The Gibson article really needs a specific section regarding the film, as that what really brought him so much "fame". It deserves an equal amount of mention just like the Hamlet/Braveheart/PotC stuff found in the article itself. Can someone please write something for it? I have not seen the film in quite a while so I'm afraid I can't do so. --ResurgamII 02:17, 1 September 2006 (UTC)


[edit] The Australian connection

As some of you may have noticed user Sliat_1981 (talk) is unhappy about Gibson's Australian roots not being mentioned at the top of the article. He's added the phrase "Australian-raised" to the opening sentence several times, and after it kept being deleted because it made the sentence too wordy, he's resorted to simply changing Gibson's nationality to Australian altogether.

The fact that Gibson was raised in Australia is arguably important. That's why I would like to propose a compromise solution: putting the info immediately after the opening line, like :

"Mel Columcille Gerard Gibson (born January 3, 1956) is an Academy Award winning American actor, director, and producer, who was raised in Australia."

If that's not acceptable, then maybe we could place it at the beginning of the second sentence:

"Mel Columcille Gerard Gibson (born January 3, 1956) is an Academy Award winning American actor, director, and producer. Being raised in Australia..."

Fwend 12:05, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

- How about the term American-Australian or Australian-American? I mean, c'mon, the guy is an Australian citizen. Don't forget his earlier films had him with an Australian accent (some Lethal Weapon movie; I don't remember which one).ResurgamII 21:19, 5 September 2006 (UTC)

Is he an Australian citizen? Does he have two citizenships? I don't know the guy well enough :-) Fwend 21:31, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
  • - Yes, actually.

(About having both American and Australian citizenship) "I think it's good to be a hybrid. You can be more objective. If you get shifted from one culture to another, you look at something unusual and say, 'What is this?'" Interview Magazine Fwend, not to mention he received the Officer of the Order of Australia (which is given only to Australian citizens) in 97'.

ResurgamII 01:29, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

The Officer of the Order of Australia is awarded to non-Australians as well, not just citizens. I would also point out that for Mel Gibson to be a citizen of Australia he would have had to have been naturalized, which was a somewhat difficult process in Australia. I do not think Mel had this at the top of his head when he was a young man, drinking, whoring and carousing around. I suspect that he does not have dual citizenship. He did not say he had dual citizenship, he called himself a "hybrid". And I guess technically he is. His mother is Australian I understand, but his Dad is American. I do not believe that any evidence is available showing that he is a citizen of Australia. Any such information in wikipedia should be deleted. However, it is appropriate to mention that he was raised in Australia. The article already does mention that. --Blue Tie 01:53, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

Honorary awards of the Order of Australia are made to persons who are not Australian citizens. JackofOz 04:42, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

I propose the following rule: for the purposes of such categorization (that has very little to do with science or objective truth) someone is to be considered primarily X-ian if he/she was born in X-land and did not explicitely renounce the quality of "citizen of X-land." Will hence be reverting to American. --Aqualung 13:56, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

You haven't answered my original question. I wasn't proposing to change his nationality, but to stop this edit war with a compromise. (Also you haven't signed your name) Fwend 16:14, 6 September 2006 (UTC)

He's a dual citizen and he has said it himself: *(About having both American and Australian citizenship) "I think it's good to be a hybrid. You can be more objective. If you get shifted from one culture to another, you look at something unusual and say, 'What is this?'" Interview Magazine

[edit] Error in the code

The link in footnote 9 doesn't work. It points to "http://www.nydailynews.com/front/story/115475p-104184c.htmlMel's", from which the last part, "Mel's" should be deleted. 193.91.181.142 00:24, 6 September 2006 (UTC) (Nick)

[edit] Finding Nemo controversial?

Actually, there was a slight problem after Finding Nemo was released, where kids were flushing their fish down the toilet thinking it would free them to the ocean. So I suppose you could call that "controversial"... ;)

But yes, I absolutely agree: While in many cases tagging something as "controversial" is somewhat arbitrary, I think in the case of Passion of the Christ there is not much room to argue. I mean, people were calling it anti-Semitic before the filming had even finished. If that's not controversy, I don't know what is. --Jaysweet 15:54, 14 September 2006 (UTC)

"Controversial" is one of those incredibly sneaky words that mascarades as objective (it has a definite "objective" ring to it), when in fact is incredibly subjective, and it is definitely not bestowed in good faith. Take for example S.B. Cohen's (aka Borat) latest film: it makes a complete mockery of the whole nation of Khazahstan, however I haven't heard anybody calling it and/or him "controversial." Now I'll let you draw the requisite moral out of this, out of why "Passions" is controversial, and Borat's film isn't. I hence think that Wikipedia should stick to objective facts, not subjective interpretations, however popular and widespread in the media they may be. After all, media in general, and American media in particular, is by far the epitomy of idiocy and cliché.
If you want to kill somebody, you call him/her on one or two public occasions "controversial:" he/she will never get rid of it. He/she will be "controversial" for the rest of his/her life. We, as a society, would be better off without this word. While the term might have had legitimate roots, it has acquired a connotation that prevents it from being used in situations requiring objectivity. Controversial items are not controversial intrinsically, they are made controversial by whoever has the power to do that.
Will hence be removing "controversial" once again. Please address the above concerns before reverting. Aqualung 13:50, 15 September 2006 (UTC)


Aqualung said: Take for example S.B. Cohen's (aka Borat) latest film: it makes a complete mockery of the whole nation of Khazahstan, however I haven't heard anybody calling it and/or him "controversial."
Uh, yeah, nobody except Wikipedia: See Borat#Controversy. hahaha.... --Jaysweet 16:14, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Where does Wikipedia call Borat/Cohen "controversial"? I just couldn't find it. The word "controversial" is nowhere to be found on the webpage you mentioned. Note that "Controversy" is not the same; as a matter of fact you gave me a good idea: I'll replace "controversial" with something else, i.e. "controversy sparked by" or something else to that effect. Calling the "Passions" movie "controversial" has more-or-less subtle unintended connotations (or, at least I take them to be unintended (but again, I am probably too gullible)). Now getting to the issue of the media, how many of you have seen the media storming with accusations of controversy, and bashing Cohen for his film? Where is the turmoil caused by Borat, whose mockery of the kazakh nation is much more overt than whatever (presumed) anti-semitic message the "Passions" movie "boasts"? How come the American media hasn't rushed into condemning Borat and his movie just as they rushed into calling Gibson and his movie "controversial"? --Aqualung 17:17, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not a soapbox. Just because you have a pet peeve about the word "controversial" doesn't mean it should be deleted. It's not Wikipedia's job to lead the way in making beneficial changes to society. Indisputably there was controversy about Passion of the Christ, therefore it was controversial. —Chowbok 16:20, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

The word "controversial" as currently used in the Gibson article is not neutral. It is beyond the shadow of a doubt that here it is used pejoratively and derisively (see Controversial#In_propaganda). Whoever put it there did not put it in good faith. Read the first two of the 5 pillars, esp. "Wikipedia:Neutral_point_of_view." As far as "not Wikipedia's job to lead the way in making beneficial changes to society," the very etymology of the word "encyclopedia" screams "education" (see Encyclopedia#Word_history): would you educate your children in anything other than "making beneficial changes to society"? --Aqualung 17:17, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

Aqualung wrote: Note that "Controversy" is not the same; as a matter of fact you gave me a good idea: I'll replace "controversial" with something else, i.e. "controversy sparked by" or something else to that effect.
If you can find a good way to phrase it, I'd be very happy with that compromise. I frankly think your concerns are way overblown, but I do understand where you are coming from -- and you are probably not alone in that, either. If an alternate phrasing eases your concerns, then I think that would be a clear improvement to the article. --Jaysweet 17:22, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Hmmmm...

I wonder why my addition to the discussion was removed. Mel Gibson is clearly a lunatic (gift-wrapping dead rats...wtf???). Even if you view this article from a conservative standpoint, it's obvious. Panda

I am unable to find edits with your ip address. If you created a log in id it would be easier to find and we could identify the reason. If your contribution was to a talk page, it might be archived. If it was to the article page, it could be that you were being highly POV. --Blue Tie 17:05, 17 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] More on the DUI

From CNN today:

The sheriff's deputy who arrested actor Mel Gibson for drunken driving has had his home searched by fellow officers investigating how a police account of the actor's anti-Semitic tirade was made public, it was reported Thursday...
http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/10/12/gibson.officer.probe.reut/index.html

Maybe not relevent. I'll leave it to someone who cares...

Jake b 13:51, 13 October 2006 (UTC)


[edit] Mel Gibson's Safari

Did this game actually exist or was the creator just having a laugh? Wormy 14:32, 15 October 2006 (UTC)

What exactly are you referring to? --Blue Tie 19:46, 15 October 2006 (UTC)
This http://martypoom.tripod.com/ Wormy 14:53, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] I Hate Juice

[1]

I linked to this in the Trivia section, but someone deleted it. I think it's fair enough for inclusion, just as something mentioned in passing. No? --BigglesTh9 11:34, 16 October 2006 (UTC)

I dont know... even if it is an external site I think this page has to adhere to Biography rules, and I dont really fancy the idea of Mel Gibson sueing Wikipedia. funny though! --ISeeDeadPixels 21:47, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Anti-Semitism

It is not sufficient that it be "incontrovertable". It must be validated by an objective reliable source. This is per WP:BLP --Blue Tie 00:24, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

Blue Tie and have reached an agreement on this, see talk at [2]. (Blue, please speak up if I'm misrepresenting you.) Anyone who thinks we're wrong, please discuss it here. IronDuke 02:38, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
I agree with you. I think it is better attached to the DUI incident page, but since he admitted it and it is a prominant part of his life now, it seems like a fair compromise -- particularly since he still denies being anti-semitic. --Blue Tie 02:43, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
I totally disagree. I think it is against reason and the current rules of Wikipedia for being notable. A man in a drunken state says this one time, and after says he is sorry, and you think he is "notable" for practicing anti-semitism??! That is unbelievable. Maybe we can find out when an actor cussed once under the influence and categorize him as a cusser? Give us a break here will you please? However "yucky" you might think it was, there is no law against speaking uncharitably about any nationality. It is common for black people to be drunk and call each other niggers, but you don't take such a one who does so once and later says he is sorry and then put him in a category as a racist! As if he practices that ism? As if Gibson actual practices the other ism? Let's get real. We have known Gibson for a long time and if he practiced that, don't you think it would have been known after all these years? It is quite common for anyone to say something they don't mean under the influence because they momentarily want to hurt someone else, knowing it will hurt. A person who paints a swastika on a car is not doing so because he practices national socialism, but because he knows he will disturb that person who owns the car. Can we use some common sense here? And to not accept an apology is the worst of all with this. That sounds as hateful as accusing the man of hate. Is it okay to hate those you think hate? --Glossando 12:23, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
Actually I have not looked at the category. If it is a category for practicing anti-semitism then maybe I was wrong to agree. --Blue Tie 13:51, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
The category is described as: This category signifies that anti-semetism is discussed within the article. When placed on the page of a person, it does not mean that the person is necessarily anti-semetic. I note that accusations of anti-semitism are part of the article --Blue Tie 13:54, 23 October 2006 (UTC)

While I dont agree with what he said and I certainly think its a horrible thing to say, I think its funny how everyone denounces him and calls him a racist, while Jackie Mason teaches hate against muslim and arabs. Mel's were drunken rambling, Jackie's are hate crimes. Yet, if it's against muslims, not Jews, it's percieved as freedom of speech. Should be the same for both. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 124.176.166.24 (talk • contribs) .

Folks, the tag is being added not as a way of saying "MG is an antisemite." It's just pointing to the fact that he's been at the center of a couple controversies involving AS. There's no POV here, just reporting facts. This shouldn't be a big deal. IronDuke 21:17, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Oh course its a way to say he is an anti-semite. By your logic, the cat should be added to about 10,000 other articles. I agree, its no biggy so just leave it off for now and stop agenda pushing, thanks...--68.9.116.87 21:24, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for talking, 68.9.116.87. I understand how it would seem like a way of saying MG is an antisemite: please understand that your suspicions are in no way relevant. We could add the cat to a lot of articles. I hope to do so. Please take some time and check out WP policies before reverting the work of others. I can point you in the right direction, if you like. IronDuke 21:47, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for proving my point about being agenda driven. By adding the anti-semitism category to as many articles as possible, you water down its meaning/importance and are not doing anybody a service.--68.9.116.87 22:03, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
So you're saying we have to add it to a lot of articles and then when I say, "Fine," you say I'm proving your point? Bizarre. IronDuke 22:06, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
I agree that if you add it to a great many articles you make it meaningless. I also think it is a relatively obnoxious but simultaneously useless category since it is only associated with things that happen to touch on anti-semitism but which may not be, in fact, anti-semitism. Given that the category exists as it does it is applicable here. But it is a bad category to attach to PEOPLE. It would be a fine category for things, ideas, books, events, etc. I think that the category for people should be "people who are anti-semitic" and that should be the limit of it, to avoid the flavor of smearing the innocent. --Blue Tie 23:46, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
(edit conflict) I never said "a great many." I don't know how large this category would grow, but many categories on WP are large. If you don't want the category, go and argue for its deletion. As long as it exists, it most definitely applies here. Also, Blue Tie, you had formerly agreed with me, and now appear to have changed your mind. Are you now suggesting that Mel Gibson is in no way connected to the subject of antisemitism? IronDuke 23:57, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Why wouldn't we attach it to people? Because it upsets Gibson fans? Or because it's obnoxious? There's an anti-Semitic people category. Feel free to add that, if you like. IronDuke 23:57, 9 November 2006 (UTC)

Adding this article to Category:Anti-Semitic people implies that Mel Gibson is an anti-Semitic person. WP:BLP#Use of categories has this to say:

Category tags regarding religious beliefs and sexual preference should not be used unless two criteria are met:
  • The subject publicly self-identifies with the belief or preference in question
  • The subject's beliefs or sexual preferences are relevant to the subject's notable activities or public life
Caution should be used in adding categories that suggest the person has a low reputation. See Invasion of privacy#False light.

Unless we have a good source that Gibson publicly identifies as an anti-Semite, this article should not be in the category, and any such edit should be reverted without regard for 3RR, per WP:BLP. —Ashley Y 20:26, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

- I couldn't even get Marlon Brando's page to be tagged with that anti-semitism category, despite alleged "anti-semitism" displayed by Brando which was discussed in the Brando article.ResurgamII 23:45, 10 November 2006 (UTC)

I'm not sure Brando's involvement in the subject of Antisemitism is as notable as Gibson's. Ashley, I think you may be arguing about the wrong category. What we're talking about is Category:Antisemitism, not Category:Anti-Semitic people. I agree, the second is a tougher category to implement. But the first is easy -- it implies no judgment about Mel. See also Abe Foxman. IronDuke 18:36, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
Oh, my mistake. —Ashley Y 06:37, 12 November 2006 (UTC)

The category anti semitism is listed under Gibson's DUI incident where it belongs. Ironduke, please stop agenda pushing which you admitted to earlier.--68.9.116.87 17:52, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

"Admitted to?" What in God's name are you on about? And if the cat belongs under the DUI article, it surely belongs here. Also, please respect WP:3RR. Thanks for taking this to talk. IronDuke 17:55, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
Read above, you said you would like to add this category "to alot of articles and hope to do so"...please stop pushing your agenda in here, not very civil...--68.9.116.87 17:58, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
I still don't know what "agenda" you're referring to. If you mean adding category information, well, yes, I'm doing that. Perfectly legitimately, I might add. Also, you have violated WP:3rr again. IronDuke 18:12, 14 November 2006 (UTC)

I think the agenda is to label an article in this way because it contains a discussion of anti-semitism. I think that the discussion is along the lines of an accusation, which may not be completely a clean deal. But on the other hand Mel Gibson admitted making anti-semitic remarks. So the label is not entirely unappropriate. Now, when it comes to agenda pushing, your repeated reverts are also agenda pushing and you are doing so in a disruptive way ... not discussing. This could be considered vandalism and you might be banned. --Blue Tie 18:01, 14 November 2006 (UTC)


You might like to note that there are several founders and current leaders of white supremacist groups who deny that they are racist, if you think self-admission counts for something meaningful. These people repeat race-hate propoganda while denying that they are racist in the same way Gibson has, unless you see some different standard being applicable to Jews.

Frankly the fact that both his parents are indisputably anti-semitic (with his father's status being such that he is even an invited guest speaker at holocaust denial conferences) and that Mel himself has made repeated anti-semitic statements (which number a lot more than "at least two" as the current version states) should put this question on about the same footing as whether RFKs policial policies were in any way linked to JFK's.

No contest that "anti-semite" is a label that should not be applied lightly. However if you cannot interpret this (and in this of all cases) then WTF can you interpret? Have all the people noted as "sailors" on Wikipedia expressly and publically declared themselves as such or does the fact they've repeatedly sailed ships qualified them as this without their own personal endorsement? 220.233.94.28 10:30, 7 January 2007 (UTC)

I removed hate speech from an anon IP and User:The world over. IronDuke 18:05, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

—Preceding unsigned comment added by The world over (talk • contribs)

User:The world over -- Let me see if I understand this correctly. Are you saying that Jewish people are still killing their sons? I notice that you are also ranting about Jews in the Henry Ford article. Do I notice a pattern here? Bus stop 17:57, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

From The World Over; To Iron Duke and Bus Stop -- Gentleman, my contributions to both the Gibson and Ford entries were followed in quick succession and without sufficient consideration, ie; they were written in the heat. So, in a spirit of good faith, and in compliance with "Staying cool when the editing gets hot" I would like to refer the following brief remarks to the Nine Tips of "Staying Cool..." Without going into lengthy detail, and since I am sure that both of you are familar with the above mentioned Nine Tips, I will make my point by refering to each tip by number. I do not believe that either of you complied with tips 1 or 2 or 4. Having said that, and after rereading my contribution to the Gibson entry, I did not comply with number 3, nor number 7 in the entry on Henry Ford (however, though I did engage in some editing which I did not give reasons for (ie, number 7) I fail to see where I engaged in any "ranting"). So, in an attempt to make amends I would like to take the time now to comply with number 6 and offer an apology to whomever took offence to my remarks, and I mean it. That being said, one can make a mistake without it qualifying as "Hate speech" or without having ones comments misrepresented by irrelevant questions ("let me get this straight, are you saying.....?"). Also, I would like to refer to you both to the "Dealing with Insults" section of "Staying Cool..." and remind you that I am a newcomer; and to tell you not as an excuse, but so that you know. In any event, though none of us complied fully with the tips, this entry is, as I said, an attempt to clean up my side of the street. The World Over

Wouldn't call Gibson anti-semitist, but moreso, a realist. It's a fact that Jews have the most political influence in mostly any Western country, and that as a result of that we're steered into wars to support horrible countries like Israel. Iran and Iraq were threats to Israel because they don't belong there--it's Palestinian land. Not only that, but the Israeli soldiers treat the Palestianians like trash (and even worse than that). 90% of the American media is owned by 5 wealthy Zionist Jews, as is the British media. As a result, you have to turn to independent studies for real news and the internet. Gibson doesn't hate all Jews, and neither does any "Holocaust Denier" (a stupid word since the phrase "Denier" actually denies the Holocaust). It's the elite at the top that were once Jews, but now live for corporate greed, manipulation, and power. It's not only Jews either, but from a population-to-representation standpoint, the amount of Jews in the upper echelons is both amazing and incredibly disturbing. 192.249.47.9 21:01, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] adopted siblings

I will be making what I HOPE is a non-controversial change to the childhood section.

It currently notes that Gibson is 6th of 10 children, and that the family adopted 1 more bringing the total to 11.

I really don't think how one of Gibson siblings entered the family is important enough to make a comment on. Kind of like pointing out that 1 was conceived outside of marriage, 4 were planned and the rest were "oops" babies. Not very encyclopedic.

If the child was adopted after Gibson's birth, then he is merely number 6 out of 11 children.

The only exception to this might be if the child were adopted under truly extraordinary circumstances and it was a very telling story as to the values of the family. Otherwise, it is pretty mundane and kind of old fashioned to point it out.

No offense intended to the original author! Just trying to tighten up the article a bit. Interesting read, btw.The Pearl 17:09, 13 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Category:Antisemitism

Including this category under the DUI article is enough. Gibson's bio doesn't warrant inclusion just because you or others want to label him an anti-semite, thats called POV original research. Thanks.--68.9.116.87 00:26, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Nope, I don't want to label him an antisemite. Please reread -- carefully -- the discussion above, then come back with appropriate remarks. Thanks. IronDuke 00:35, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
Clear attempt at getting around consensus that category anti-semetic people is not approriate.--68.9.116.87 00:57, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
Are you paying any attention at all to what's being said here and on your talk page? Your posts make it seem as if you're not. It makes it difficult to communicate meaningfully with you. Also, are you using this an alternate account? IronDuke 00:59, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
Mel Gibson has been referenced notably in reliable news media reports concerning antisemitism. Once regarding his film, The Passion of the Christ and then with the DUI incident. His article more than qualifies for addition to the Category:Antisemitism. (→Netscott) 01:01, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
There are four references in four sections of this article mentioning antisemitism. Please give it a rest now. (→Netscott) 01:12, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Mel Gibson is not an example of anti-Semitism, therefore he should probably not be in the category. The individual incidents, however, should be, if there are articles for them. —Ashley Y 01:20, 16 November 2006 (UTC)

Mel is a poster child for antisemitic controvesy. I know fans don't like it, but there it is. IronDuke 01:22, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
Perhaps not but there is no denying that antisemitism with regard to his person has been very notably discussed repeatedly by numerous reliable sources. There are four separate sections of this article that make mention of antisemitism, I'm failing to understand the issue of folks feeling that this article on him should not be a part of the antisemitism category. (→Netscott) 01:24, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
Perhaps it's the implication that Mel himself is an anti-semite. While many may claim he is, and his drunken tirad was a step backward, he doesn't identify as one. Still, the tirad really did push it over the edge. It's one thing to call Rush Limbaugh a rcist; it's another to prove he was at a klan rally. Ace Class Shadow; My talk. 01:45, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
There shouldn't be any such implication. Clicking on the category makes this clear. See, for example, Abe Foxman. IronDuke 01:50, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
I too am suspicious of this coming off as a POV, but there is a valid point that this does not link him directly to anti-semitism. I was dissappointed to see however that someone added the POV categorization of "anti-semetic people" today. The accusations are far too few to label him with as strong a category as "anti-semetic people." The history/evidence of the issue still is too sparse to say throughout his life he may have been an "anti-semetic." Just adding my two cents.¤~Persian Poet Gal (talk) 06:32, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
If I were to kill a man (or a woman, in certain parts of the world), I would be a murderer. I do not have to "identify as a murderer" in order to be considered a murderer. I do not have to have killed people throughout my life in order to be considered a murderer. I may have apologized profusely in prison, I may have made some nice music, paintings, poems, movies, or whatever - I'm still a murderer. I may have been drunk and stoned and in Hollywood at the time of the incident. But I'm still a murderer. Likewise, if Mel Gibson, Mel Brooks, Brooke Shields, or whoever makes anti-semetic remarks, they're an anti-semitic person. Is it really that complicated? It's not POV to label the trunk of a pine tree as "something that is brown", even if we could all hypothetically agree that brown is the worst color of them all. --Action Jackson IV 02:50, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
So I guess it isn't that simple. If only it were :) --Tom 13:30, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

In any event, being drunk is not a defense. Alcohol makes you loose your inhibitions, thus anything in your head, racist ideas for instance, might come out for no apparent reason.--Gonzalo84 04:57, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Sprotected

I've sprotected because of the amount of reverting going on. I don't normally put the tag on BLPs, but if anyone else wants to, feel free. SlimVirgin (talk) 03:56, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

Tagging after protecting isn't optional. I'd think an administrator should know this already. Ace Class Shadow; My talk. 04:20, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
It's only semi-protected. :-) SlimVirgin (talk) 09:14, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
Yes, but...the tag is...key. Untagged articles aren't categorized and users aren't clearly informed of what's what unless they try to editting. Ace Class Shadow; My talk. 18:59, 17 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Not Thomas of Lancaster.

The "accusations of homophobia" section states that Edward II was a "mere puppet of Thomas of Lancaster." But a quick reading of the linked article suggests the opposite: Lancaster opposed Edward and was executed by him. The "Thomas of Lancaster" bit in that statement needs to be changed to Piers Gaveston - who is certainly the historical model for Edward's lover in the film. However, it would be equally accurate to use Hugh le Despenser - or his son, Hugh le Despenser the Younger - in this instance, if the issue is merely whose puppet Edward was. 4.225.134.193 12:31, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

(Doh! The point being, I've forgotten my login info and can't make the edit myself, but it does need to be made, so an admin should make it.) 4.225.134.193 12:34, 18 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Vandalism?

"Mel Columcille Gerard Gibson AO (born January 3, 1956) is an Academy Award-winning American-Australian actor, director, and producer *and a virulent anti-Semite*."

Vandalism seems to be getting really out of hand on this page. I don't know if it should be protected, or even how to do that, but maybe someone with more Wikipedia experience can help out? Alki 03:25, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
You can't protect articles. That's an administrator-exclusive function, though I'd probably prefer Wikipedia virgin such as yourself to certain others as Admins. Anyway, as bad as it might seem, I've seen worse. There are ways of requesting protection, but I'd imagine it would only be rejected in this article's case. Ace Class Shadow; My talk. 04:05, 6 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Family

In the article, in the "Family" section, Mel's kids are listed with their birth years. His two oldest sons appear to be twins, and thus the same age. Neither of them is named Bear, and nowhere does the article say that either of the twins has the nickname "Bear." Nor does the article state that Gibson has had any children with any women other than his current wife. The last sentence of this section reads thusly: "Mel Gibson's eldest son, Bear, attends Liberty University in Lynchburg, Va." This seems to contradict the earlier part of the section. First of all, if the information provided in the article is completely accurate, Gibson does not have an "eldest son"; rather, he has two sons of the same age who are older than all his other male children. And who is Bear? I don't know if this is extremely unfunny and uninspired vandalism, or simply an editorial oversight. I don't really know enough about Mel to correct it myself. Perhaps there's a Mel Gibson expert out there who would care to comment? 69.205.44.251 03:19, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Uh.... someone needs to change this....

Hi... uh... i'm a history major, but i'm sure it doesn't take one to know this....


I saw Apacolypto.

1. The civ were not Mayans. It was the Aztecs who performed blood rituals for their sun/snake god, Quetzacoatl

2. This does not take place during 600 AD. It takes place appx. during the spring of 1519

3. The location of the film would have been in modern-day Mexico City, which was called "Tenochititlan" by the Aztecs

Can someone please fix this embarrising Apacolypto section? thank you.. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by AK2 (talk • contribs) 05:37, 11 December 2006 (UTC).

You have misinterpreted what is going on here and it wouldn't be appropriate to change the article as it is accurate. This is a movie about a Mayan civilization as Gibson stated repeatedly in its promotion. The fact that he got practically every possible historical detail wrong has been noted by many Mayan historians. This however doesn't make it a movie about a differnt civilization, it just makes it a deeply inaccurate movie about Mayans. Attriti0n 13:07, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

Also, he is grouped under Roman Catholic entertainers and he is most certainly not Roman Catholic. He is a member of an off-shoot "traditionalist" Catholic group that thinks Rome is too liberal.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.176.64.139 (talk • contribs) on 15:54, December 29, 2006 (UTC); Please sign your posts!

  • I second that. Remove 'Roman Catholic' from this biography. Jporcaro 06:58, 4 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Anti-Semitism

I think it might be worthwhile to note that his anti-Semitism and hatred of George Bush are linked. BonniePrinceCharlie 16:33, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

That was random. Citation? Ace Class Shadow; My talk. 19:24, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
Opposition to Iraq War and anti-Semitism (stop helping Israel). Big thing nowadays. BonniePrinceCharlie 22:52, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Anti-Semitism has nothing to do with Israel. It existed before Israel, so it's completely independent. Israel is a massive leech on our resources, and for what reason should we support them? They violate every possible international law out there, have roughly 600 nuclear warheads (provided by us of course) despite not being registered as a nuclear power, and have carved their society out of the skulls and lives of countless Palestinian men, women, girls, and boys. I'm strongly anti-Israel and more Americans are opening up to it--they are of NO benefit to us. They don't even have oil. AIPAC is a large reason we're over there now, alongside corporate greed interests. Anti-Semitism would be hating the Jewish people for following Judaism...end of story. 192.249.47.9 21:06, 25 October 2007 (UTC)

Yeah...I'll take that as a "no". Don't add speculation to the article. Ace Class Shadow; My talk. 23:07, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

His defense of being Alcoholic was referenced in a recent South Park episode when Cartman says, "Oh, no! She used the Mel Gibson defense". This certainly doesn't warrant it's own section, but perhaps if other references are also made, this may be germane.

The Category:Anti-Semitic people should be added to this page, because the comments he said were clearly anti-semitic, and thus prove his antisemitism.--Sefringle 09:12, 31 December 2006 (UTC)

It is very important that we not categorize articles (and, by extension, living people) subjectively. Gibson does not identify as anti-semitic. Adding this article to that category would be biased and inappropriate, not much unlike adding Michael Richards to a category for white supremists. Comments alone aren't enough, especially if they're "taken back" and/or denounced later on. Ace Class Shadow; My talk. 00:48, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
So if Adolf Hitler did not identify himself as an ant-semite, would that mean he couldn't be added to Category:Anti-Semitic people? The point is he is anti-semitic. And Michael Richards should be added to Category:Racists.--Sefringle 04:24, 12 January 2007 (UTC)
Reductio ad Hitlerum I was unaware that Hitler ever denounced his anti-Semitic beliefs. While I believe that Gibson is a racist, he has denounced those beliefs and apologized for what he said. Therefore, while his comments bear inclusion into the article, it is unfair and biased not to accept his assertion that he is a changed man. People make mistakes. Faithlessthewonderboy 23:16, 26 July 2007 (UTC)
Exactly. As I stated above: If I were to (without provocation) kill a man (or a woman, in certain parts of the world), I would be a murderer. I do not have to "identify as a murderer" in order to be considered a murderer. I do not have to have killed people throughout my life in order to be considered a murderer. I may have apologized profusely in prison, I may have made some nice music, paintings, poems, movies, or whatever - I'm still a murderer. I may have been drunk and stoned and in Hollywood at the time of the incident. But I'm still a murderer. Likewise, if Mel Gibson, Mel Brooks, Brooke Shields, or whoever makes anti-semetic remarks (I should qualify this - "makes anti-semetic remarks in a face-value situation" - that is to say, there's a difference when dealing with a Shock Jock or Onstage Persona), they're an anti-semitic person. Is it really that complicated? It's not POV to label the trunk of a pine tree as "something that is brown", even if we could all hypothetically agree that brown is the worst color of them all. --Action Jackson IV 02:53, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
What if you killed that man or woman when drunk, and when sober you look back at what you did and feel sorry and repent? I recall one Law'n'Order episode where some dead drunk dude hit some child with his car and killed him. Well, you know what? He didn't get acused of murder, but of drunk driving! Negligent homicide probably, but not murder. I just cannot understand how come some people just seem to gloss so easily over the fact that Mel was drunk at the time he made the famed comment! I can only regard this behavior as pure malefic intent, and nothing else. Such people, motivated by such an obvious malefic intent should not be allowed to modify the article: malefic intent is, by definition, incompatible with objectivity. Aqualung 23:26, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Edits from Banned User HC and IPs

Warning Wikipedia's banning policy states that "Any edits made in defiance of a ban may be reverted to enforce the ban, regardless of the merits of the edits themselves. As the banned user is not authorized to make those edits, there is no need to discuss them prior to reversion."

1) HarveyCarter (talk · contribs) and all of his sockpuppets are EXPRESSLY banned for life.

2) Be on the look out for any edits from these IP addresses:

AOL NetRange: 92.8.0.0 - 92.225.255.255
AOL NetRange: 172.128.0.0 - 172.209.255.255
AOL NetRange: 195.93.0.0 - 195.93.255.255

[edit] Philanthropy

This action to Mexican children was done in partnership with the Rotary through Rotarian Foundation http://www.rotary.org/newsroom/programs/060411_gibson.html —The preceding unsigned comment was added by PierreLarcin (talk • contribs) on 23:12, January 3, 2007 (UTC); Please sign your posts!

[edit] birthplace

I thought I read soemwhere once that he was born in New York. Doesn't that rate a mention? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 159.53.46.141 (talk • contribs) on 22:05, January 25, 2007 (UTC); Please sign your posts!

"I thought I read somewhere once" would make this a no - but it shouldn't be too hard to find a citation for this. According to http://us.imdb.com/name/nm0000154/ he was born in Peekskill, N.Y. --Action Jackson IV 02:56, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Prankster section

I removed some material that was not sourced or didn't reflect the citation. This whole section needs work as it appears like original research in its present form. Rather than remove it entirely lets find some reliable sources. Thanks!--Tom 13:26, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] hey

Block quote

hey my name is ramona and i search something about your religion

  • Ramona -- This is the "Talk" page for the "Mel Gibson" article. This page is for discussing how to write that article. Please type four tildes (~) after your posting, so that your name and the date and time will automatically appear in your posting. Bus stop 12:14, 14 February 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Add in The Patriot

Hey mel gibson arguably gave his best performance in the movie the patriot and its not noted here. The movie won an academy award and 16 others. Iam too lazy to do so but could someone please add this to this article? it really was an awesome movie and it deserves to be mentioned here. OSFockewolf 01:21, 5 March 2007 (UTC) mel gibson is the best

[edit] Filmography

Just like to point out that Mel Gibson has also appeared in the following movies. Also the comment under Film Career, Mad Max, that "Gibson made his film debut as the leather-clad post-apocalyptic survivor in George Miller's Mad Max" is incorrect. He actually made his film debut two years earlier in a very ordinary Australian movie called Summer City.

1. The Singing Detective (2003) 2. Chicken Run (2000) (voice) 3. Pocahontas (1995) (voice) 4. The Man Without a Face (1993) . 5. The Chili Con Carne Club (1993) 6. Bird on a Wire (1990) 7. Mrs. Soffel (1984) 8. The River (1984) 9. Tim (1979) 10. Summer City (1977)

Leon Pinkerton203.41.250.147 23:25, 11 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Controversy over lead text

Please take a look and weigh in at Wikipedia_talk:Biographies_of_living_persons#WP:BLP_vs._WP:LEAD. I have seen this same argument played out a bazillion times. Let's get some frikkin' consensus going here! --Jaysweet 04:12, 13 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Awards and accomplishments

I do not agree with stating this obscure "award" by some website under awards and accomplishments - so I suggest to remove this last one: Named the "Second Most Jew-hatingest of Hollywood" beat out by nonother than Richard Simmons on the Frigid 50 list Film Threat (2006) - There should be stated only real and respectful awards, not some questionable hate-awards made by haters --Ibuko 13:39, 17 March 2007 (UTC)

It's removed. Garion96 (talk) 13:26, 18 March 2007 (UTC)
Thanks. --Ibuko 22:17, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] First Name

Is his first name Melvin or is it really just "Mel"? I know that Sacha Baron Cohen (as Borat) once called him "Melvin Gibsons", but that doesn't really prove it either way. -EJ220 19:52, 24 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Cal State Incident

There are several facts not being represented with regards to the incident. CSUN students who attended the event themselves allege via a facebook group at http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2257023176 that Gibson was patient during the entire ordeal, that Estrada was disruptive, and that she not only cut in line, but snuck into the event, which was reserved only for film students and faculty who had questions about Gibson as a filmmaker, not about his depictions of Mayan culture. Furthermore, university officials themselves (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2007/03/23/entertainment/e141124D56.DTL) are defending Gibson, not Estrada. The SF Gate reports that the two refused to give up the microphone. Wikipedia's citation of only TMZ.com, an incredibly sensationalist website for entertainment journalism, as a reliable source, is very poor journalism. Jtown1234 09:03, 25 March 2007 (UTC)

{{editprotected}}. This page is only semiprotected; any username more than a few days old can edit it. CMummert · talk 11:39, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
If you feel that certain facts are not being represented, then by all means, add them, and the sources that support them. I read the SFGate.com source, and added the details provided by that article, as well as the source, but for future reference, you can certainly do this yourself if you wish. However, I saw several bits of wording and turns of phrase that were not in the SFGate.com source that you provided, such as "demanded", "enraged", "shouting insults", and "clearly disgusted". I removed those. That source also doesn't say that he was "patient throughout the entire ordeal", but corroborates his invectives toward Estrada, and says nothing about her being disruptive, cutting in line, sneaking into the event, or the exclusivity of the event. I also don't see how his depictions of Mayan culture are not pertinent to "Gibson as a filmmaker". And while it does indicate that one campus official praised Gibson, he did not take sides over the conflict between him and Estrada. I don't know if these assertions are derived from the facebook source, but I cannot access that page, because it requires that I log in, and I do not subscribe to that service, and I don't even know if that is considered a credible source or not by WP standards. Nightscream 02:54, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
Sorry, I was requesting an edit because I thought the page was protected, not semi-protected, because my account has only been active for a little bit. You are right, much of what I discussed was from the facebook, which, of course, is not a journalistic organization, but it does capture the feelings of what the students who actually attended the event -- and they're not happy with Estrada at all. Anyway, here's a better source, the student newspaper's account of the incident -- http://media.sundial.csun.edu/media/storage/paper862/news/2007/03/26/News/Mel-Gibson.Lashes.Out.During.apocalypto.Screening-2789703.shtml When I'm allowed to edit the page, I will. Jtown1234 07:15, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
Just out of curiosity, why are you not allowed to edit it now? In any case, if you want, I'll add the info from that source tonight when I get home from work. (EST). Nightscream 20:44, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
I think it's just because my account is too new; the "edit" feature doesn't come up yet for the article page just yet. Jtown1234 22:18, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Crooner

Apparently there is also a crooner with the same namesake. See crooner

I removed it from crooner, couldn't find a reference for it. Garion96 (talk) 22:30, 22 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Homophobia section

The section needs to be restored so that it mentions his anti-gay interview from December 1991. That was why he hosted the GLAAD event in 1997. It is also significant since as late as his Playboy interview from July 1995 he was still refusing to apologize. (Gibsonism 18:51, 24 April 2007 (UTC))

Added it back. --DrBat 21:04, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Holocaust and Mel

I don't generally edit contentious and disputed topics like this one so I will leave you this article to do what you will with. See: [3] IvoShandor 07:06, 30 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] I think this page needs a newer image

Why not use that black and white faceshot of him from the movie Payback86.144.221.3 20:39, 19 May 2007 (UTC)

Has anyone else noticed that the picture of him in 17 years old? Since we're talking ancient history, here's a few other items that are as old as Mel's picture: Washington, DC Mayor Marion Barry was arrested for drug possession; the President of South Africa promises to free Nelson Mandela; U.S. President Bush breaks his 1988 'no new taxes' campaign pledge. Can someone please bring us up to recent history with an image of good ol' Mel from this century? Thanks, Hu Gadarn 18:45, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

Feel free to find another free content image to replace this image. Since this is a free content image, it can not be replaced by a fair use image. Garion96 (talk) 19:10, 24 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Mel Gibson the Actor

is mel gibson still an actor, it seems his main focus now is directing??Jimmypop1994 23:29, 11 June 2007 (UTC)

Directing and producing. He's more of a money guy these days as no one will touch anything with him on the screen. But actually, was he ever *really* an actor??? Proxy User (talk) 12:29, 5 June 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Flip out on Danny Glover?

I remember hearing about Gibson flipping out on the set of one of the Lethal Weapon movies (or something he did with Glover, maybe not Lethal Weapon) on local news. I don't remember much about what they said happened except that he got angry at glover and someone in the crew; called Glover a 'nigger', and said something about the crew member being a jew.

Has anyone else heard about this, or have any credible sources as to whether or not it is true? I don't know if it is true or not, or maybe it was a prank he pulled. I heard about it on local news during the coverage of his DUI/rant recently, but none of the local news stations' websites have anything in the archives about the story.--70.243.243.5 05:49, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Death penalty?

I'm a little curious about this now... from a little Googling, I found quite a large number of bio and triv pages that mention that Mel Gibson is pro-death penalty, but couldn't come up with a single reliable source (I figured IMDB was borderline, so not surprised I got reverted there :D ). Oddly, one fan site had footnotes scattered about the bio, but then the footnotes themselves were indecipherable. D'oh!

So what's the skinny? Is this just a rumor then?

I'm not sure how important this is for the article anyway, but now I'm curious. --Jaysweet 15:34, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

[edit] MERGE VOTE: Mel Gibson DUI incident

Please vote at the bottom, and follow the format:

Some other talk about the merger has gone on at: Talk:Mel Gibson DUI incident#Merge --RidinHood25 13:57, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

NOTE: The voting has been going on for more than the required time. Propose: CLOSE-NO MERGE - Deadline: October 15, 2007

Is there consensus that Mel Gibson DUI incident should be merged with the main article? I just want to make sure there's agreement before I start moving info over! Popkultur 04:19, 23 August 2007 (UTC)

  • VOTE: FOR - : A merge seems appropriate to me. +sj +
  • VOTE: FOR - **I agree, this article has no reason to exist. User:151.201.10.68 03:37, 14 April 2007
  • VOTE: AGAINST - I disagree with the merge for two reasons, 1) This article is 35 Kb and Gibson's main article is 55 which would make the merged article somewhere in the neighborhood of 90 Kb. According to WP:SIZE articles really shouldn't be that big if at all possible which it is in this case because 2) It would become the Mel Gibson article featuring the DUI incident. The incident deserves to be discussed for several reasons, but given Gibson's long career this one incident should not be competing for attention next to Mad Max etc. Anynobody 08:53, 24 July 2007 (UTC)
  • VOTE: FOR - Please merge the articles, there's no need for a separate article about the DUI incident.S. M. Sullivan 07:41, 24 August 2007 (UTC)

I vote to keep them separate because the DUI incident article is very long and detailed.Claisen 02:25, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

  • VOTE: AGAINST/DELETE - I vote that the DUI incident article should be deleted. But if it is not deleted it should be kept separate. It is too long for this article. DO NOT MERGE. --Blue Tie 00:23, 4 September 2007 (UTC)
  • VOTE: AGAINST - As stated here, and over at the other discussion page, the DUI entry is too large to be merged -- it would be larger than his bio. Either reduce it to a paragraph, or keep it seperate. FResearcher 22:31, 12 September 2007 (UTC)
  • VOTE: AGAINST - The DUI thing is has over 60 references and is long. Why dilute this article with that stuff? The factoring out was a good thing. This article is already 65K and the DUI thing is another 35K. Do not merge.--RidinHood25 15:38, 21 September 2007 (UTC)
  • VOTE: AGAINST - this issue is significant in its own right due to the larger context of anti-semitism. Thanks, Hu Gadarn 04:24, 26 September 2007 (UTC)
  • VOTE: AGAINST - Come on, the M.G. DUI incident is amazingly hilarious in its own right, regardless of its anti-semetic or misogynistic aspects. It is a significant reference point in American (and possibly international) culture and comedy. It deserves a full-page writeup instead of the inevitably shrunken and controversial section of Mel's main article that would undoubtedly result from a merge. 75.71.10.213 21:17, 11 October 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Quotation section

Can the quotes be better sourced or removed? Not sure if they add much. Other thoughts? Thanks, --Tom 00:01, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

I think removal would be best. It's not very encyclopedic. IronDuke 00:43, 10 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Balance and POV tags

I've placed the Balance and POV tags on the article. The criticism section and alcohol abuse sections alone (not including any criticism elsewhere in the article) make up about a third of the article. I know he's a controversial guy, but this is undue weight. It needs to be abridged. 69.110.129.251 (talk) 01:00, 14 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Current picture

I may have missed a discussion on this, but why is the photographer/owner credited? I've never seen that before on any other Wikipedia article. Seems like a subtle form of advertising. Anyway, I'll give notice for a few hours before I remove it in case there is a good reason why it is there. Chicken Wing (talk) 19:09, 5 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Paleoconservative

The belief that he´s a paleoconservative is not NPOV. It´s an interpretation. Like it´s stated in the entry, there are several interpretations of his political beliefs. To state that he´s a conservative, would be acceptable, but it´s arguable if he´s really a paleoconservative. He probably would like to see a Christian-Democratic Party in the USA, since he seems to have some differences with both major parties.Mistico (talk) 17:37, 25 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Boxer rumor

I have heard a rumor float around that Mel started out as a boxer. Even if this isn't true, would it be worth mentioning on his page if a source could be found?--ProfessorTom (talk) 00:26, 28 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] POV in satire? Or speculation at least...

It can be argued that "Family Guy" may have been a little nicer to Gibson than "South Park" was; he may even like "Family Guy" better than "South Park."

Has there been some kind remark made be Gibson to tell if he's a Family Guy fan over South park? What's the point of this statement?--Skeev (talk) 20:37, 25 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Historian

Does Mel Gibson really qualify as a "Historian"? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.216.14.112 (talk) 22:23, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] PBS Carrier series

I kept looking at "Executive producer: Mel Gibson" in the credits of Carrier An Icon Productions and Carrier Project Production (an interesting 10-hour miniseries somehow associated with WETA-TV in Washington, DC.) and saying,

Hmmm, do we need Mel Gibson (disambiguation), or is this producer n-n?

Well, turns out that the Icon Productions tie shows they are one and the same, and the lk at Carrier (documentary) acknowledges it.
I don't have a change in mind for this article (and i'm certainly not suggesting OR additions), but i can't help thinking that when MG and PBS are in the same bed, editors should at least have their eyes open for mainstream discussion of what it implies about one or the other.
--Jerzy•t 04:10, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

Do you always talk in staccato riddles? What are you trying to say? "Tie shows" is that a show about how to pick out a tie? As for adding something about the documentary in this article, why not? Go for it. Just a sentence under his Icon Productions would be fine. Although his big contribution to the project was to put up the money for Icon Productions and nod affirmative to using some Icon money to give to the makers of Carrier. Nothing else. As for "in bed with PBS", when the green light was given for production, i.e. to make the film, there was not set place for the film to appear. It could have been distributed and appeared somewhere else. When the financing is green lighted, that doesn't mean that a distribution agreement is in place. So, it is no big deal. I wouldn't get to excited. IP4240207xx (talk) 04:24, 16 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Image copyright problem with Image:Bounty sc.jpeg

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This is an automated notice by FairuseBot. For assistance on the image use policy, see Wikipedia:Media copyright questions. --22:23, 16 May 2008 (UTC)