Wikipedia talk:Media help (Ogg)

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[edit] HOW-TO: Find all the Ogg files on Wikipedia

Now that you know how to play Ogg files, either Vorbis, Theora or Speex, you might want to know where to find files to play. Wikipedia offers a vast list in this page, most of them under the Public Domain. You might also want to check the Commons data base.

Furthermore, you may want to offer your help to Wikipedia by creating Spoken versions of its articles using either the Vorbis format or Speex.

--Saoshyant ^{talk / contribs} 15:13, 3 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Links to this page

Can I suggest that this page is linked as standard to all the ogg media files pages? I have been using wikipedia for 6 months but have never used an audio/video file because i had no idea how to make my computer play them. In the end i had to search externally on google to find this page--84.12.21.104 00:33, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

Every article that uses any ogg audio/video is supposed to use the audio or video template, both of which link prominently to this page. How were you getting to our media without encoutering the template? Raul654 02:25, 5 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Real player removed

Yes, RealPlayer stinks. But it's still some people's favourite media player. I reckon we should still list this as an OGG player on Wikipedia:Media help, even if we put a warning up there as to some of the criticisms. It's a fact that some people stick like glue to their choices of media player. I believe it's better to allow people to choose RealPlayer than lead them to believe that RealPlayer doesn't support OGG, which isn't true. I reckon that there may also be NPOV issues with leaving RealPlayer off there. TreveX^talk 15:46, 23 September 2005 (UTC) {Copied from user page User talk:Raul654 TreveX^talk 09:59, 26 September 2005 (UTC)}

I've removed Real Player from this list. TreveX asked me a couple days ago on my talk page about this, but (with the main page pruning) I've been distracted until now. Real player is a truely awful program. TreveX said he thought that making this subjective choice could be a violation of the NPOV policy, but he is incorrect - the NPOV policy applies to articles, not Wikipedia pages. I've gone ahead and removed it. →Raul654 22:04, 25 September 2005 (UTC)

Perhaps NPOV doesn't apply here, but this was an aside to my main argument. You evidently feel quite strongly that RealPlayer isn't very good. Other users may feel differently, however. The purpose of this page is to explain to users how they can play media on Wikipedia, a number of options are given in order that users can make the choice most appropriate to them. RealPlayer's presence on this page is simply about giving users of Wikipedia the opportunity to make a free choice based on the fact that RealPlayer is capable of handling Vorbis and Theora files. To leave RealPlayer off is extremely patronising to users: "we think RealPlayer is rubbish, so we're not going to tell you how to play OGG files using it". I happen to agree with you that RealPlayer isn't particularly great, but why force users who use RealPlayer and are happy with it to change to another player simply because we don't like it? Restored. TreveX^talk 09:59, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

I've used all available video players and Real is my favourite. Dan100 (Talk) 18:33, 8 October 2005 (UTC)

[edit] Winamp?

Where is Winamp? I can't tell how many use it, but there was a time that it was one of the most popular audio/media players. And it has native ogg support. — mark ✎ 14:08, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

"It is highly recommended that you use a program which is capable of playing both Ogg Vorbis and Ogg Theora files. The reason is that both types files use the same file extension, namely .ogg. Programs which can only play Ogg Vorbis files, such as Winamp, will still attempt to load video (Ogg Theora) files but will fail to play them." →Raul654 14:12, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

Ah, I missed that one. — mark ✎ 14:27, 28 September 2005 (UTC)

Currently Winamp is not limited to playing audio files. As far as I know it was possible to play video in Winamp for at least one year. --213.142.200.101 07:29, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

True, but it's not, insofar as we have been able to determine, capable of playing ogg theora files. →Raul654 17:25, 3 November 2005 (UTC)

We could always e-mail them and ask, and if the answer is no, we could send in a reply requesting that feature. Too bad AFAIK admins like Raul don't get @wikipedia.org email addresses, they should allow that :-) --unforgettableid | talk to me 07:48, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Winamp play ogg Theora !!! http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Media_help --adrruiz

\^(talk) 13:46, 18 April 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Confusing

This page is too confusing. My mom could not follow the instructions. How can we make the instructions easy enough for my mom? --unforgettableid | talk to me 07:45, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

I agree. There are too many options. — Jeremy | Talk 01:18, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
I agree too.. The should be one option per platform. Is it really necessary to link to several closed-source players? --Tomhannen 13:40, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
I agree three. It also seems kind of spammy. We might as well just direct people to vorbis.com's setup page, which is much clearer. My suggestion would be to have that, a link to Wikimedia's cross platform plugin, and a link to Comparison of media players and THAT'S IT. --Karnesky 02:22, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
I agree four. Someone needs to write an installer which automatically installs java and the codec, and does everything that is neccessary to make it work. Most people just can't be bothered going through such a long list of commands to watch a video. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.72.0.195 (talk) 19:46, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Special:Playmedia

Also, could we make a page called, um, let's say, Special:Playmedia with <embed> tags that cause Firefox to automatically download an appropriate player, just like Firefox does now with Flash for users who don't have the Flash plugin yet? --unforgettableid | talk to me 07:45, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Playing Ogg files in iTunes

Would it be worth including instructions to install the Xiph.org QuickTime components, which should allow the playback of Ogg files in iTunes? I'm asking, rather than just adding it to the page, because it's not an official addon from Apple, and hence it's possible that it'll be broken by Apple at a future update of iTunes. Mike Peel 03:28, 4 April 2006 (UTC)

User:Raul654 seems to be reverting all edits that put this into the page. The reason given is that only software which can play both the audio and video versions of Ogg should be listed. I would disagree with this - I use iTunes for audio playback, and VLC for video playback, and only half the help for this setup is available here.

I would propose that we list methods for getting Wikipedia content to work in as many mainstream programs as possible (by 'mainstream' I mean used by a reasonable amount of people). We're not making recommendations here, as that's biased; we're providing help for users. Whether the program is capable of playing audio, or video, or both should be mentioned at the top of the instructions for that software. Mike Peel 12:13, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Wikipedia contains both ogg vorbis and ogg theora (and is, to my knowledge, the only site on the internet that does so). Due to a profoundly bad decision on their part - to use the same extension, .ogg, for both, operating systems will default to a single program to play both. We will *not* be listing players here that can only play half of these, because that will only lead to complaints from viewers that they followed the instructions and couldn't play a certain file. Raul654 16:37, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

Thank you for the explaination. Mike Peel 18:05, 1 May 2006 (UTC)

As of XiphQT 0.1.5, iTunes can play both Vorbis audio and Theora video fine, as I have tested on Mac OS X. It should also work fine on Windows, but as I do not have a Windows computer to test with, I'm only going to be re-adding the guide for iTunes for Mac OS X for now. On a related note, since any QuickTime player (and there are a dozen or so on the Mac) can use these components, maybe it should be written like the DirectShow entry for Windows, or GStreamer for Linux? But the only other QuickTime player I can think of that's worth linking to is NicePlayer... --Dicey 08:04, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Time For Downloads

Instead of saying 'this should take about X minutes on 56k connection (which is becoming increasingly rare now; even in NZ, which has some of the worst internet connectivity in the world, many people now have good broadband), why don't we just say how big the file is? This would allow people to make the simple deduction themselves how fast it would take, depending on their highly variable internet connections.

I also don't like that less than 2 minutes has been bolded for WMP, it looks more like an ad from MS than a wikipedia article like that.

[edit] Saving

Okay, I can now play Ogg files, but how can I save other files as them? --OGoncho 07:13, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

You need an Ogg Vorbis encoder (or an Ogg Theora encoder if you want to encode video). I just use oggenc but you'll probably be more comfortable with something like Audacity. —Keenan Pepper 13:03, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

Thanks. --OGoncho 21:17, 27 April 2006 (UTC)

CDex (Windows) and abcde (Linux) also support creating ogg files. I have found them easier to use for this purpose than Audacity. --Geekdog 13:35, 22 May 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Recommended Players

For reference, j^ on IRC #theora says on 28--Sept--2006:

GChriss: Wikipedia:Media help (Ogg) <-- Is this page complete and up to par?

j^: or os x it should list http://xiph.org/quicktime/

j^: oh it does under itunes, confusing

j^: and mplayer sure is not the number one choice, quicktime or VLC are

GChriss: j^: mind if I quote you on that? the page doesn't make a recommendation per se, but it would be fine on the talk page

j^: you can quote me sure, the order was suggesting a recommendation to me

j^: oh and it should be Ogg not OGG

j^: all over

GChriss <always listening><c> 16:55, 28 September 2006 (UTC)

[edit] So, HOW do I play OGG files?

I've never been able to get these audio files to work. I click on the pronunciation link, the file downloads, but my computer can't find the proper player, and when I click "search the internet for the appropriate program" I just get a page that loads blank. When I click "download programs" on the help link next to pronunciation I just get a list of players that either I already have or seem redundant to what I already have. I just don't get what I'm supposed to do. CClio333 02:56, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Follow the instructions on this page. Raul654 16:17, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Could you be more specific? Do you mean the Media Help (Ogg) page? Because nothing on that page addresses my problem. CClio333 21:20, 9 October 2006 (UTC)

Look for step 7 under the Windows tutorial. Does it help?--Saoshyant ^{talk / contribs} (I don't like Wikipedophiles) 11:00, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Plan 9 from Bell Labs

I don't suppose there are many Plan 9 users out there, but could there be some information on how to play Vorbis/Theora in Plan 9. Oh, and maybe Haiku too?--Ivo Emanuel Gonçalves/Saoshyant ^{talk / contribs} 10:39, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Interesting software, but is the number of users at least three digits? It wouldn't make much sense to include the instructions otherwise. Thanks, GChriss <always listening><c> 17:21, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

Plan 9? Probably much more than 100 people. Haiku? Not so much.--Saoshyant ^{talk / contribs} (I don't like Wikipedophiles) 11:01, 25 October 2006 (UTC)

If you're using that OS (either of them), you probably already know what you're doing, and don't need this page. Bawolff 20:18, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Broken link / bandwidth

The link http://www.illiminable.com/ogg/ on the Ogg Media help page does not work anymore.

Yes, I think the domain name expired. Is there any alternate way to be able to play Ogg files? (Other than installing an alternate player, that is) Thanks, Am00nz0r5 20:17, 4 November 2006 (UTC)

The site is back. For future reference, if it ever goes down Windows users can check the DefilerPak (or find a mirror of illi's work).--Saoshyant ^{talk / contribs} (I don't like Wikipedophiles) 15:00, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Link is down due to bandwidth issues. There really must be another source for Ogg Codecs; can WP not host something itself? (I'm not sure about other users, but "hellninjacommando" doesn't instill a great deal of confidence in me - but then neither does a website suffering bandwidth overuse.) ozNoz (talk) 19:42, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Well, bandwidth isn't free and nobody is selling a product to get spare money to pay for all the bandwidth. I need to talk with the site's owner so he tries to set some mirror system. Also, scratch my earlier recommendation for DefilerPak. It's outdated and includes support for non-free formats, which is a no-no in Wikipedia et al. While the illiminable site doesn't come back online, you may want to try install VLC, or simply install Java and use the built-in player in the Ogg pages across Wikipedia et al.--Ivo Emanuel Gonçalves ^{talk / contribs} (join WP:PT) 22:08, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Sample Video Post on Wikipedia

Can someone please send me a link to a video posted on Wikipedia?

I've been looking for the last 20 minutes, and I cannot seem to find a sample of this Ogg video format.

Please help.

Thanks, Kyle

I've uploaded a few hundred to commons. See Komodo dragon, for example. Raul654 16:32, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

[edit] MPlayer Windows GUI

The Windows version of MPlayer now has a GUI. I'll update the page accordingly. Now that a command line is not required, I'll remove the references to advanced users who are familiar with command line usage.

[edit] Help Me

I've done everything this page asks of me, but I'm still unable to play ogg files. I get an error message when I try to open one. I've downloaded the coddec and everything, uninstalled it, reinstalled it...Please leave a message on my page. --Criticalthinker 10:35, 9 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Going Too Fast

I've been using the Mac OS X version of the Ogg player on files from the Homestar Runner Wiki (my username there is Brightstar Shiner) and it works perfectly fine, except that when I play the spoken article files, they play way too fast. I don't know why this is happening. Could someone please help me? Thanks in advance, -216.201.58.10 21:28, 24 January 2007 (UTC)

Could you post a direct link to one of those files? I'm not a Mac OS X user, but I can check if there's a problem with the files. It's probably a bug on the player, though.--Saoshyant ^{talk / contribs} (please join WP:PT or WP:SPOKEN) 11:49, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

I can't really, but the time on it looks like this: -:--:--. Maybe I'm downloading it wrong. Anyway, don't worry about it; I'll figure it out for myself. Thanks anyway! -216.201.58.77 01:37, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

I just want to confirm that I have the same issue with MPlayer on OS X, with every Ogg Vorbis file I've tried to play (mostly pronunciations). Additionally, VLC truncates the beginning and end of the audio, which makes the pronunciation audio basically useless. I've also tried Democracy, but it's told me it can't play the files at all (which is odd, since I thought it used VLC's guts for a player). Afiler 19:26, 22 February 2007 (UTC)

Afiler, would you plese fill a VLC bug report? This situation is pretty odd, and I do not want other users to suffer the same problem.--Saoshyant ^{talk / contribs} (please join WP:Portugal or WP:SPOKEN) 16:45, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

[edit] illiminable codec doesn't work

The codec here doesn't work for me.This one does. Perhaps we should use it as an alternative option, as I have followed the directions to the letter, and on several diffrent computers, but alas, the illiminable codec still doesn't work on them, yet every system I have used the other codec in has... The only problem I can see with this is 56k users, and users of Windows 9x. - 68.228.56.158 02:42, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

There's quite a bunch of ilegal and irrelevant crap in there. I do not recommend that codec pack for ANYONE. In case illi's pack does not work, look for ffmpeg.--Saoshyant ^{talk / contribs} (please join WP:Portugal or WP:SPOKEN) 16:45, 5 March 2007 (UTC)

How is any of it illegal? And while irrelevent, it is my favorite codec pack. ^^ - Thekittenofterra 18:13, 10 May 2007 (UTC)

[edit] VLC Firefox plugin for Windows is unreliable

The VLC firefox plugin for windows will not play short OGG audio files correctly. This is a huge problem in wikipedia and wiktionary, where you are often listening to short files. I couldn't find anything documenting this. Short files tend to get truncated upon playback. Any suggestions? --Tomhannen 13:40, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

Go talk to the vlc people perhaps.( http://videolan.org ) Bawolff 20:15, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

Should there be a link to this somewhere on the page? It was the only way I could find of getting them to stream correctly in Firefox. 82.32.116.76 10:51, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

[edit] I simply want to upload a recording! HELP - how to make an ogg

Can anyone please help me...

I have made a recording which I wish to upload. However, Wikipedia is rejecting my MP3. I guess I have to make an ogg.

Can someone recommend a GOOD, FREE program to use for this? I have tried two already: one was 6MB and required registration (otherwise it only encoded half the file!) and the other did not work at all (I forgot their names now: I simply deleted them).

Please recommend a program to me. A small one, preferably - which simply performs its task, to run a wav file through a codec.

Thanks.

EuroSong ^talk 14:07, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

You can simply go to the official Vorbis web site and see what's available there, in the encoding section:

http://www.vorbis.com/setup_windows/

oggenc is the original encoding utility by Xiph.org, so you can't go wrong with that. Also, the purpose of Wikipedia talk pages is discussing the article — the way it's written and the how to improve it. It's not a general discussion forum. —J. M. 15:53, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Thanks for the suggestion, J. M.. By the way, I am well aware of the rôle of talk pages: that's exactly why I am asking this question here - because this information should be in the article itself. As it stands, there is not a single mention of the words "encode" or "create" within the article. And since ogg files are Wikipedia's format of choice, then it should be natural that this page - entitled "Media help (Ogg)" is the most obvious page on which to provide users a guide to creating these files! The fact that I had to ask the question here surely serves to highlight this glaring omission from the project page. Anyway - thanks again for the info. EuroSong ^talk 18:10, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

For help making oggs, see Wikipedia:Media Raul654 16:04, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Editing sound files

Anyone willing to help edit four sound file interviews for Wikinews and Wikipedia's use? -- Zanimum 20:41, 19 April 2007 (UTC)

Please reply to my talk page, if you're interested. I'm looking for multiple volunteers, so that there's less work for each person individually. -- Zanimum 16:23, 20 April 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Democracy Player name change to Miro

I've changed all references for Democracy Player to Miro since this is now the name of the product. Sp0ng 05:13, 12 September 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Be frustrated. Be very frustrated.

I have tried to get Wiki audio and video files to work on seven PCs now. All were running XP. They ranged from old machines to brand new clean installs. Even following the instructions on this page to the letter and installing the latest versions of everything, NONE of them have ever been able to play Wiki media content.

I can only assume that the drive for "open source" file formats is merely an attempt to ensure that no-one other than the greatest Unix Über-gurus ever see any of the supposed rich Wiki content.

Come on guys, get with the program and start using file formats that *real* people use. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.109.99.145 (talk • contribs)

Unfortunately a change of formats is not an option, or at least not a change that will be brought about easily. If you want help getting media files to play on your computer, please contact me on my talk page or by email. It will be useful for everyone if we can figure out which part of these instructions are confusing and then modify them accordingly. -SCEhard T 19:44, 21 October 2007 (UTC)

Where can I go for help? I've followed the instructions to download and install the Windows codec on an XP PC. I can't get it to associate the .ogg filetype with the correct application. The Iliminable "program" in the Start/AllPrograms menu only has two options: uninstall and 'oggcodecs website' -- I can't find a program called DirectShow. N2e (talk) 21:25, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Reply is on your talk page -SCEhard T 22:54, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Sound samples

Is it just my browser, or does anyone else notice that the sound samples are ill-shaped within the page, and protrudes unto the written text of the article? Is anyone working on this, please? It's been like this for a while. Orane (talk) 19:21, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Here's a screenshot of the Celine Dion page. Look how the samples disrupt the text.

Here's a screenshot of the Mariah Carey page. Look how the samples extend too far right, and you have to scroll over to see them.

Can you point out an example? The buttons are ugly in a number of different ways, so it would be good to know which one you're interested in.. :) --Gmaxwell 20:02, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Well, in most of the article I've edited, the sound sample distorts the page. Look at Mariah Carey or Celine Dion for example. Orane (talk) 20:23, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

I'm more worried about browser detection, really. I never tested the new player, so I took the opportunity just now. Now this is interesting as it says I don't have any supported player. If I remember correctly from the description on how it works, it should have detected either Java or VLC on my system, right? If someone wants to take note, the player didn't work for _me_ on SeaMonkey, Linux, with Java and VLC installed. I'll try to look further into the issue just in case it's something weird on my side. Also of note is that my Swiftweasel browser (on the same platform) just crashed after hitting the play button.

Note that neither of those browsers support the <video>/<audio> element as of yet, so the only thing I was able to test was the "fallback".--Ivo Emanuel Gonçalves ^{talk / contribs} (join WP:PT) 21:34, 6 November 2007 (UTC)

Are you sure you actually have Java and VLC installed? Check your about:plugins. The current support does detection somewhat differently than the old stuff, but as far as I can tell it works pretty widely. When you hit 'more' after hitting play it should list the supported playback modes. What is listed there?

"crashed after hitting play" sounds like VLC. The VLC plugin is crashy for some people (mostly on Linux with old copies of it..), so it's down ranked by default. --Gmaxwell 00:14, 8 November 2007 (UTC)

Ah, yes. about:plugins reveals that my SeaMonkey does not have the VLC plugin installed. It does have Java, though. Shouldn't it have started the Cortado application? My Switfweasel however does have both installed, and VLC is the latest stable version. I wouldn't call it an "old copy".--Ivo Emanuel Gonçalves ^{talk / contribs} (join WP:PT) 15:09, 9 November 2007 (UTC)

Has anyone discovered the issue with the sample? Is it just my browser? When I log out, the box is perfectly aligned, and there is no problem. However, if I log back in, then it becomes ill-shaped again :-( Orane (talk) 20:46, 12 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] User ratings

The user ratings should be removed for the same reasons as Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Films/Style_guidelines#IMDB_User_Ratings. Chris Bainbridge 23:13, 30 November 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Additional player for Windows

I would like to propose that foobar2000 is added as a player in the wikipedia list. It supports ogg natively. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Chadders (talk • contribs) 12:46, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

foobar2000 supports Vorbis and Speex, but not Theora (the video part), making it not okay as a Wikipedia et al recommended player.--Ivo Emanuel Gonçalves ^{talk / contribs} (join WP:PT) 15:42, 6 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] VLC

Can you tell me why is VLC the recommended player? I know, it is most likely the player available for most platforms but it does not play the OGG/Vorbis files well! It skips first second or two of the file and this means VLC is totally useless for short files like pronunciation examples. In VLC forum they say it's an internal issue of the player and it would be a "huge redesign to fix it". 89.176.252.135 (talk) 00:51, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

If you are part of the VLC community please insist as much as possible that they do redesign that part. Even the FSF is recommending the use of VLC to play Ogg video and audio so they better live up to everyone's expectations and deliver a good product. Why is VLC the recommended player? You have the answer: because it's available for pretty much every platform and also because a javascript library called mv_embed defaults to VLC if neither Java or HTML 5 <video> support are available. mv_embed is/will be used across the Wikimedia projects.--Ivo Emanuel Gonçalves ^{talk / contribs} (join WP:PT) 02:55, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] How do I get Firefox to play a downloaded Ogg file?

My fully-updated Firefox browser on Windows XP plays ogg files fine on Wikipedia pages. But when I click on the downloaded file I get a popup window asking what to play it with. I can't get the Firefox browser to play it. I would like to use whatever Firefox is using to stream the ogg file.

Isn't the Firefox browser using Java plug-ins to play ogg music files? There is an ogg music file I can stream fine when I click the play button on this page:

Portishead

[[:Image:Sour Times.ogg]]

The "more" info button goes to here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Sour_Times.ogg

or it popups a menu with more options if the music clip has already been played. It lists the Cortado Java player as being the current selected player. It also offers QuickTime as an option. QuickTime could not play it.

I downloaded the ogg file from here:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/0/05/Sour_Times.ogg

When I click the file, Sour_Times.ogg , I can't get the Firefox browser to play it. I don't want to install other players yet.

Where do I browse to in Windows to select the Cortado Java player? I am talking about when I click on the ogg file and the popup window asks what I want to use to open the ogg file with. --Timeshifter (talk) 08:41, 25 April 2008 (UTC)