Talk:Mechitza

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Contents 1 Height of mechitza 2 Kitzur Shulchan Aruch HaRav ????? 3 Synagogue at JTS 4 Opacity 5 Feminism and mechitza

[edit] Height of mechitza

User:Shaul avrom has suggested adding a section with information about the proper height of a mechitza. Agree since this has been a notable controversy in recent years. Would welcome input from an editor who is an expert in this area. Best, --Shirahadasha 02:22, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

In practice, I have seen a Modern Orthodox synagogue where nothing more than a braided rope down the center aisle was in use. Rather than have halachic information here, I suggest we document the diversity of the world's synagogues, and refer to sources of such information elsewhere. Trying to present Jewish Law sounds like a can of worms for Wikipedia. It is a problem for which a general purpose wiki cannot possibly provide a satisfactory solution. Most readers of the English Wikipedia are not Jewish. There is a lot of diversity in Jewish opinions, and most of the people that would read this article will not understand that. This might be one of those cases where Hillel and Shammai disagree, and both are right. --Metzenberg 06:11, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

It's not a Hillel-Shammai Machlokes. Whichever shul that was, Their "Mechitza" is posul according to all poskim. The mechitza is supposed to be, according to Chareidi Poskim, as tall as the tallest woman, or, at minimum, eye level of the tallest man. Modern Orthodox Poskim, paskend that It only needs to be 36 inches off of the ground.--Shaul avrom 10:40, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Metzenberg, Notable controversies over halakha have been considered appropriate content for numerous other articles, for example, Temple Mount, The Third Temple, Partnership minyan, Modern attempts to revive the Sanhedrin. Why not here? One need only summarize the existence of the controversy and say A says X and B says Y. Of course sociological aspects could be documented as well. --Shirahadasha 15:03, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

I belive that Reb moshe paskened that it only needs to be up to shoulder height the women. The reasoning being that a woman's face is not eirvah (even a married women not covering her hair would not be problematic in this regard). I would imagine that the most lienent opinion is 10 tefachim like any fence, but then you have big problems if there is a women not dressed modestly (wearing short sleaves for example). I see what I can find. Jon513 15:09, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Jon, As you said, with the Tznius issue, The Mechitza would have to be taller than the tallest woman, I won't doven at my parents shul for that reason. But I am pretty Sure that it wasn't Reb moshe who paskened like this. I think it was a Rov here in baltimore.--Shaul avrom 19:53, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Tried to write a paragraph on the 6 feet vs. 10 tefachim dispute using sources I could find on the Web. Perhaps others can find better sources for these views, as well as in-between views. --Shirahadasha 03:17, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Kitzur Shulchan Aruch HaRav ?????

BS"D

When did anyone write a Kitzur on the Shulchon Oruch Harov?? And also, I'm Pretty sure that it wasn't R' Soliveichik who paskend as such. --Shaul avrom 19:27, 23 August 2006 (UTC)

Both sources were found on the web and are not ideal. If you can find better sources, it would be appreciated. The reference is not to Rav Joseph Solovetchik. Shabbat Shalom, --Shirahadasha 17:25, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

I am aware that it was not R' Yoshe Ber to whom you were refering to. Thats why I spelled the surname Soliveichik that way. His Father and various other family members spelled it as I put it. Gut Shabbos --Shaul avrom 17:56, 25 August 2006 (UTC)

[edit] Synagogue at JTS

There are actually two separate synagogues at Jewish Theological Seminary. The larger (and newer) one, Women's League Seminary Synagogue, is egalitarian and mixed seating. The original one, Stein Chapel, is non-egalitarian and I am pretty sure it is separate seating with no mehitza to this very day. I'll (bli neder) look into it and edit accordingly. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 65.244.92.26 (talk) 07:30, 14 December 2006 (UTC).

There is technically a mechitza but it is very low. Valley2city 07:48, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Opacity

Should we discuss opacity and thickness. The mechitza at Shira Chadasha in Jerusalem, for example, is thin and almost completely transparent. I have also seen mechitzas with holes/uniform gaps throughout Valley2city 07:53, 29 January 2007 (UTC)

Be bold! You're welcome to add details if you cite appropriate sources --Shirahadasha 05:25, 31 January 2007 (UTC)

[edit] Feminism and mechitza

The lack of mechitza in reform and reconstructionist shouls should also be described in feminist terms. the leadership believes its a statement of the equality of men and women before g-d, not just as an 'affont' to tradition, which is what the article currently reads like. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.110.240.69 (talk) 19:10, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

The historical events may be somewhat different from contemporary beliefs. The 19th century events long predate organized feminism, the 19th century arguments for family pews weren't generally feminist in nature. Understanding that contemporary reasons are now different and are appropriate to include, do you have a source, perhaps one that could discuss this subject in more detail? Agree the current article says very little about Reform and Reconstructionist views and could certainly say more about both historical and contemporary views, as long as statements are properly sourced. Final, a WP:NPOV issue: the article needs to state explicitly that Reform and Reconstructionist Judaism believe a mechitza to be inconsistent with their understanding of male and female equality. This is a religious belief, and leaving it unstated and assumed presents a WP:NPOV issue. Best, --Shirahadasha 20:06, 16 September 2007 (UTC)