Talk:Međugorje/Archive 1

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THESE THINGS SHOULD BE ADDED

Right now these are the things this article is missing for a good objective article. Since Medjugorje has a complexity, this article should be as long as possible. So here's some things that should be Added I feel. Anyone of you should Speak up if you have problems with these.

---Mention of call to fasting on bread and water on wednesday and friday and saying 15 decades of the rosary a day.---

This should be mentioned because it's the bigtime request of Medjugorje. It's a very defining characteristic.

---Janice T. Connell "The Visions of the Children"--- This is a bestseller in stores everywhere.

---Mention that the claim is that the apparitions are for every person on earth and not just catholics.--- This changes the stereotypical nature of the apparitions.

---The letter to Gorbachev and Reagan, and the response from Reagan.--- The letter from Reagan will have to be proved.

---The Nature of the secrets.--- This follows the interesting nature of the secrets which makes Medjugorje sensationalistic in a balanced way. The first 3 stand out in a certain context. The first breaks the reign of satan in the world. Our Lady ceases appearing after the 3rd secret. When all of the secrets come to pass satans reign will entirely cease.

---The Main Messages of Medjugorje--- I think this is incredibly obvious. However the children seem to give one-word messages such as FAITH, FASTING, CONVERSION, etc. which appear to be different. This needs to be researched and put into context.

---The Movie "Gospa".--- Starring Martin Sheen and Morgan Fairchild

---James Caviezel influences with the Passion of the Christ--- "The catharsis for me to play this role was through Medjugorje, through Gospa." http://www.medjugorje.hr/int%20Caviezel%20ENG.htm

---Communist Persecution and the imprisonment of the parish priest.--- I think this is obvious.

---The fact that her title is The Queen of Peace.--- This is obvious.

---There are two lesser people who claim to receive locutions from Our Lady--- They are accepted by Medjugorje. So that's very important.

---Estimated number of people who have been to Medjugorje.--- This shows a popularity.

---That Our Lady has come to convert the whole world.--- This should be a quote from the Janice Connell bestseller. --- ---Monthly Messages.--- This shows hows the apparitions follow a current spotlight on a regular basis. --- ---General mention of pilgrims reporting signs and wonders.--- This is defining characteristic. - Juan T. I made some changes. If anyone objects then mention it somewhere here. I guess that's the way it works. I only changed things I was sure of. - Juan T.

[edit] PLEASE REMOVE THESE THINGS

I'm new to Wikipedia. Saw things right off the bat wrong in this article. There are other things I have to research as well. Here are some things that need to be removed. Also there are objectively good things that need to be added.

---"While the girls initially reported that the lady said she would only come back "three or four more times", they continued to report daily visions long after they were supposed to have ceased."--- Because.. "When the apparitions began visitors began speaking to the visionaries about these other apparitions. From what they heard from these visitors they assumed that Our Lady would appear for the same short length of time. This was merely an assumption and proved incorrect. The important point here is that Our Lady did not say she would only appear for a short time." http://www.medjugorje.org/faq.htm#no23

---"and continue to claim daily visitations as of 2006."--- Well known that only a few of them claim apparitions now and for some time.

---'promised the six visionaries ten “secrets”--- The secrets were not a promise OR this is misleading.

--- "These ten secrets, which will affect the Church and the world, were written on a special parchment listing the timing and description of each event." ---

The secrets may be different for each visionary OR are different for each visionary. Only Mirjana's is written on a special parchment. No one can see the message unless they are supposed to because its claimed to be miraculous. This would theoretically be important to mention so that nutty people don't go about searching for it and try to read the message.

---"be left on Apparition Mountain"--- I think that should be Apparition Hill.

---"One of the messages of the "Gospa" delivered only to the seers is:"--- What does this sentence mean?

---"They say that no amount of prayer, fasting, or good works can entirely prevent the dire events forecast in the secrets."---

I think that's only the 9th and 10th secrets.

"The ninth and tenth secrets are grave matters. They are a chastisement for the sins of the world. The punishment is inevitable because we can not expect the conversion of the entire world." http://www.medjugorje.org/overview.htm

---"He will fast and pray for six days."---

7 not 6 days.

"Ten days before each of the warnings, she will advise the priest she chose for this task (Father Petar Ljubicic), who will then fast and pray with Mirjana for seven days." http://www.medjugorje.org/overview.htm

--- "She insists that the painful events for humanity are very near, and that the important thing is to pray, to pray in the family, and to pray for the young who do not believe." ---

Very very misleading.

"Those who are still alive will have little time for conversion. For that reason, the Blessed Virgin calls for urgent conversion and reconciliation." http://www.medjugorje.org/overview.htm

Medjugorje is not condemned. The Vatican has set up a new commission on Medjugorje.

http://www.cathnews.com/news/607/135.php

--"According to Catholic authors E. Michael Davies and Michael Jones, it is possible that the alleged apparitions at Medjugorje were used by the Bosnian-Herzegovinian Croat Franciscan Order to challenge the authority of the diocese."--- "it is possible" indicates something that is made-up. Unprofessional wording.

--"Jones investigated the background of the alleged visionaries and found that they were a group of "punkers", which in that region meant that they listened to rock and roll, wore jeans and smoked cigarettes (in fact, they had confessed that they had gone up the hill to smoke, rather than to look for sheep, on the first night)."---

This is purely to make Medjugorje look bad.

---"Jones speculates"---

Unprofessional wording.

---"Because Church Law leaves the question of whether apparitions are valid to the local Bishop, this statement on the part of Bishop Peric is the declaration that the claimed apparitions cannot be considered valid by the Roman Catholic Church."---

The bishops authority was taken away by then Cardinal Ratzinger.

- Juan T.

I'm new to Wikipedia and a believer in the apparitions at Medjugorje. I see that there are a few things to correct. One of which is that there is a new vatican commission on Medjugorje. Evidently there are things that are not true that are being posted. Objectivity is obviously important. Rumor and falsehood is not.

- Juan T.

I still maintain that the best translation of zapadnohercegovački is not West-Herzegovina, but as long as the link isn't broken, I won't bother fixing it. --Joy [shallot] 10:51, 5 Oct 2004 (UTC)