Talk:Mazandarani language

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[edit] Mazandaranis are not ethnically Persian

http://www.myspace.com/mazandarani

According to CIA World Factbook, Mazandaranis are not ethnic Persians, but a distinct ethnic group [1]. So I suggest to have a page on Mazanadarani People as well.Heja Helweda 04:34, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

Who is CIA?! We are Persian for the simple reason that we identifiy ourselves as persian. Also the first language of urban population in Mazandaran is Persian not Mazandarani. Sangak 20:14, 25 February 2007 (UTC)
I am ofcourse not persian, but i proud to be iranian, i also proud to be tabarian, persians who don't consider other people and would like to consider themselves are disrespectfull, like what you are writing here, please assume good fath, You may think persian, but i am living among them, just in sari and babol people talking mostly persian, and some turkic cities of mazandaran like shahi and behshahr mistake! --Ali 18:26, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
Mazandarani is alive and should be kept alive, not only because it is the language of a part of Iranians, but also since it is a backup for Persian. However I can guess where you are coming from, mentioning "Turkic". !!
Yes, You right, i did a mistake, i also wasn't so much in shahi and behshahr, Honesty almost everyone of non-mazanderanis about mazandaran are akinda fraudulent, A turk-originated immigrant in Shahi stated that --Parthava (talk) 07:31, 3 May 2008 (UTC)
The usage of Mazandarani has been in decline. Its literary and administrative rank was lost to Persian perhaps long before the ultimate integration of Mazandaran into the national administration in the early 17th century. Most people of Mazandaran are bilingual and many see Persian as their first language. Sangak 19:03, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
So, this is up to people and not language, please show some other evidences, actually you made me norvous to writing that message --Ali 19:24, 27 February 2007 (UTC)
According to the research by Maryam Borjian, Mazandarani is unintelligible with respect to Persian.Heja Helweda 05:19, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
Yes, but the same paper notes that the speakers of Mazandarani are bilingual in both languages --Rayis 09:59, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
I think there is still no consensus on wikipedia regarding what constitutes/defines an "ethnic" group. What is "ethnic"? Does the mere criterion of speaking a different language suffice? Or is it a racial issue? If the point is a linguistic issue, you cannot define an "ethnic" group based on it. Will anybody please finally come up with a sourced statement regarding what an "ethnic group" actually is, and how it relates to a "linguistic group"? Shervink 15:19, 26 March 2007 (UTC)
language could not be an evidence for ethnic, Since many of the people in iran are educating persian, or in india, malaysia, canada, australia, new zealand people enjoy speaking english, However they are from various nations, But A Mazandarani Man who interests his culture and his land shall use Mazandarani, along with business language, Also please note that this is the article of language and not the article of people, since some people insist to including some unrelated notes, Keep on using mazandarani, ema vene na'orim veshon re gap re, ame gap ke andi sadoo'e o jan ri dilbere vene genim,
my take on this: Mazandaranis are of course an ethnic group. But they have assimilated large numbers of (predominantly male)Georgians, Armeniasns, and to some extent also Jews, Kurds and Afghans. Day by day the arrogant Tehranis come to Mazandaran cut off the trees and dry the rice farms and make villas. laugh at Mazandarani language and customs and Tehranize the area. Thi bilingualism in Persian as such, however, goes back to earlier dates. The educated (predominantly Urban) classes there has always been bilingual in Persuian and Mazandarani. Tehrani persian is not making the natives stop speaking their language (yet) but has currupted the purity of their speech and customs.--Babakexorramdin (talk) 23:56, 16 March 2008 (UTC)
Please note that these all are mutual, I found too many parses of sentences which were mazanderani originated in tehrani persian, Although i never saw those tehranis, but i aware that Mazanderanis also laugh at tehrani's style of persian, game for tehranis has been over. Land prices are now so high that no one could buy a piece of land. --Parthava (talk) 20:17, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
Please stop being a radical, "arrogant Tehranis laugh at" any other dialect, including dialects of Persian. By the way a part of Tehranis are modern Mazandaranis.--92.242.212.254 (talk) 13:29, 30 April 2008 (UTC)
Please note that the MAJOR part of today tehranis are mazanderanis, I am a native tehrani, i never saw even one tehrani to fooling my language, Just IRIB and radio televisions are keeping fun with it, P.S. that's not mean that if radio/tv channels making fun with my language, So tehranis do. I also don't deny that some mazanderanis sometimes make funs with it (those persian is the 1st for them) --Parthava (talk) 20:17, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Bibliography

(moved from separate article)

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[edit] Disruptive editing by 68.5.250.146 (talk)

I’m afraid edit summaries by 68.5.250.146 (talk) - given his long history of disruptive editing e.g. at Amir Taheri – can’t be trusted. It looks as if the sources he claims to refer to were added by him (here) rather spontaneously and haphazardly via copy and paste from the above list. He very probably never read them. Note the typo "Wiesbadan": he simply repeats it. --Ankimai (talk) 01:38, 2 February 2008 (UTC)

Ya, You are right, he simply paste the sources which are above (in talk page), and he never initiated any discussions, ... So what is your solution ? --Parthava (talk) 05:12, 2 February 2008 (UTC)
I do not know about Amir Taheri. Parthava is a bit rude but his take on Mazandarani language is closer to reality than that of 68.... With all due respect I also do not see anything positive in the envovlement by a Nigerian in such matters as regional lnaguges of Iran. Subjects which requires expertise to the native level. I also do not uderstand why he is so anti-Georgian when he himself (in chat) states that he is a Georgian Mazandarani. But: Mazandarani is not a persian dialect. Though stating that it is unintelligible with standard persian is also a big statement. Intelligibility is a word which has gradual and relative meaning. It should be said mazandarani is a Northwestern Iranian language while standard Persian is a South Western one. I think you should use this phrase as I said. About Gilaki instead of Mazandarani. I have heard this also from another native Mazandarani that they called their language Gilaki before, though it was different than the language of Gilan. I will ask another Mazandarani though. Finanlly I should add that I am not someone who comes to edit on demand. I have my own intellectual integrity. I am not the paid kind of pesudeo-scholar who writes anything for a certain agenda. I only write the truth. I am not much into propaganda. If I can help with editing and clarifying the truth I will, but I wont undo edits by people, only because they are rude or so...--Babakexorramdin (talk) 12:45, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Protected

The page is now protected for 7 days. During this time, please try and find common ground and arrive to a version that all can live with. If you cannot, this is a good time to pursue dispute resolution such as third opinions or requests for comments. If you are ready to resume editing or to contest the protection, place a request at WP:RFPP. ≈ jossi ≈ (talk) 17:26, 16 March 2008 (UTC)

On January 11 68.5.250.146 (talk) added some sources. I am sure though that he has never seen, let alone read them. He simply copied and pasted them (because they contain the word 'dialects', probably) from this list - without realizing that he copied and pasted the typos, too ("Wiesbadan", "Geselaschaft"). This guy is a vandal and troll (have a look at the edit history of Amir Taheri, please). Regards, Ankimai (talk) 23:12, 18 March 2008 (UTC)

Ankimai is making baseless accusations. He engages in revert wars on issues about which he has absolutely no knownledge. Even when you provide him with sources of the highest caliber, he makes absurd justifications for totally ignoring all references such as the one he makes now - without even reading the source! Please see his totally inappropriate vandalism and revert warring on Amir Taheri evidencing his tendency.

[edit] To Parthava

dear Parthava I have supported your case with regard to mazandarani language. nevertheless, if you go on with your carless manner of edits, deleting all sources materials and pushing your own theories (e.g. your Sanskrit theory) You will not have my support any more. Therfore I suggest revert the edits to my last edits, which were in accordance with the core of your POV--Babakexorramdin (talk) 21:53, 31 March 2008 (UTC)

Nonesense, calling it gileki or mazanderani is not so much important, So i don't waste my time for it, And also i added those refrences first, And that man used it to frauding all of the readers of this article, Yes people in tehran may be right, because Mazanderan TV's mazanderani programs are actually resembling dialect rather than to be language, you can see it's channel, and you can understand almost all OF it, and then compare it with mazanderani wikipedia, I'm not stubborn, Just like when you talk about georgian heritage, that persian guy (or gay, Since his notes in mzn wp reflects Eva Khahari) thinks that iranians are persians both you & this man's ideas boring me, These such theories couldn't help to be unified, And then it provides more chances to those pan-turks you & this man remarked before --Parthava (talk) 07:17, 1 April 2008 (UTC)
Why is my "ideas" are boring to you. I simply supported you POV on Mazandarani language, but formulated in a nice way.This is what I'm asking. BTW the Mazandarani TV was not easily intelligible to me--Babakexorramdin (talk) 09:20, 1 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Protected edit request

{{editprotected}} false version, Please correct it or revert it (request made by User:Parthava)

N Not done Please lay out exactly what change you wish to be made and get consensus from other editors on this talk page before requesting a protected edit. -CapitalR (talk) 12:06, 6 May 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Definations of vandalisms by IP

{editprotected|See below for details} She first appeared 27th of May removing the source and imposing her nonesenses, Then 31st of May 2007, My friend from Sweden the list of works on language what this user later when she understands that her works marked as vandalism them because of having dialect in them in jan 11th of 2008, without awaring what wrotted there, Many of users including user:Shervink, user:Heja helweda, user:Hborjian, user:Ankimai,...were not agree with her.
When user:Visviva asked for reference, she just copy/paste the biblography items having the word dialect to preventing her vandals getting reverted.
He also removed the reliable sources, As linguistics know that two languages are not intelligble, This just has political background in the Pahlavi era, when all of the local cultures and languages censored, See Carina Jahani's Work. Not only sources, list of references and many others such as this one claiming that it is a language, Johannes Dorn researched about it some 6 years resulting in Masanderanisch Sprache german for mazanderanish language and not dialect.
Without needing the entire source of those, Anyone could understand that it is a hoax and Sources are claiming that it's one of caspian dialects, Since caspian dialects are intelligble from region to the neighbor region but not from far east to the far west, both mazanderani and gileki are two dialects of caspian language, See the map created by myself in Caspian languages page. --Parthava (talk) 08:08, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

N Not done. This request is not comprehensible. State clearly and in proper English what exactly you would like to have changed, please. Sandstein (talk) 15:38, 11 May 2008 (UTC)
Sorry for delayed response, I requested per above, change the current version this version, Thank you, Many of sources, details, infos, ... deleted and non-senses that i stated above about it added, Thank you --Parthava (talk) 17:35, 14 May 2008 (UTC)