Talk:Maynard James Keenan

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Archive: 2005–2007

Contents

[edit] WikiProject Tool workspace

Because of the length of most of these sections, and the fact that I'm just talking to myself in most of them, I'm going to condense most of them. Lara❤Love 03:40, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] References

[edit] To-do list


[edit] Discography


[edit] Restructure


Those years with more than one even may not be in order. I've not checked dates. Thoughts? Lara❤Love 18:37, 22 March 2008 (UTC)

This isn't going to be able to happen. It's just too much going on concurrently. I attempted to restructure chronologically but it became very confusing and very difficult to create an sort of flow. I think that the current format is best for this particular biography considering the number of projects runnings all at once. Lara❤Love 03:21, 30 March 2008 (UTC)
Agreed. –Pomte 05:21, 30 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Print sources

I've still got PDFs to look through. But this is a start, for sure. Lara❤Love 03:40, 10 April 2008 (UTC)

Armies of one Spin. Nov 2007. Lara❤Love 05:48, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Maynard's Mother's death

Would somebody care to revert this section under Early Life? It's well documented that she passed away in 2003. He was eleven when she became partially paralyzed. The person who wrote the article that was cited is a pretty piss-poor writer if he doesn't bother to check his story. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.234.135.211 (talk)

Feel free to contribute. Don't attack authors. Sign your posts. Have fun. the_undertow talk 02:21, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
Thanks, I'm a chick by the way. So that should be "pretty piss-poor writer if she doesn't bother to check her story." Really, I read the news article and it stated that his mother died when he was 11. Thanks for the sweet note, though. It's corrected now. You're welcome. Lara❤Love 05:31, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Hey, just an fyi, guys - I wasn't refering to LaraLove. I meant the author of the article she referenced. I *did* actually bother going to read it before posting my comment. Whoever wrote the article she cited didn't bother doing his/her reference too well, since they said that she died when Maynard was 11. No attack or offense was intended towards you, Lara. I'm sorry I wasn't more clear in what I said. Gomen.

Also, as far as signing posts goes, I haven't set up an account, as I only edit wikipedia on rare occasions. Sorry if anybody thought I was hiding or attacking other users. Peace to all... 71.234.135.211 (talk) 11:10, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

Ah, thanks for the clarification, 71.234. And you should sign your posts even if you're not registered, as you did there, because it allows users to contact you via your talk page. Also, be bold in making changes. :) Lara❤Love 16:07, 17 January 2008 (UTC)

It would be nice, but doubtful, if there is a reliable source relating this incident to the eleven in "jimmy". –Pomte 20:31, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

I'll look for it, but I agree, it's doubtful. Lara❤Love 05:22, 19 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Jennifer Ferguson

There are few mentions of her, even on t.d.n.

has Howerdel saying that "Brena" originates from around 1990. It is uncertain whether the title came from Maynard at a later time. –Pomte 21:18, 18 January 2008 (UTC)

The link requires registration to view the full article. I hate when they do that. Lara❤Love 14:14, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
Still, it's free and much preferable to paid/subscription-based sites. Has sent me 0 emails in total. –Pomte 14:47, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Contributions and other appearances

Why are these lists not achievable? He is a musician, he is notable for being a musician, and so his work as a musician should be listed. Seems more relevant than all the biographical information. –Pomte 13:53, 20 January 2008 (UTC)

In looking over listed Featured Articles, I don't see lists like these. In fact, for musicians that are band members with solo careers on the side, they only list the discography of their solo career, see John Frusciante for example. The article lists his solo albums and there is a main article link to his extended discography, which includes all albums including those of Red Hot Chili Peppers. I think Maynard's is long enough that it warrants its own article. Lara❤Love 14:10, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
Please note that I had no problem with the removal of the Tool/APC/Puscifer lists, since that content is covered by their respective discographies. Maynard James Keenan discography in its current state is redundant and the labels and release info don't seem pertinent enough. What I want to argue for is the inclusion of his other work from the diff I linked. –Pomte 20:09, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
I agree that the info should be included somewhere - it is both verifiable and informative to the reader. Is there any objections to adding the once-off/minor contribs to the discography article? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Skomorokh (talk • contribs) 20:21, 20 January 2008 (UTC)
The thing about it is that Maynard isn't a studio guy. He's showed up to sing a line in so many appearances it looks more like a trivia section. There is also a question of notability with several of those appearances. It's inevitably a list that will never be satisfied, as long as he is making cameos. As far as more relevant than his biographical info, I would say that I respectfully disagree. I think people visit an individuals page to read the bio of that individual, and the efforts for which he is notable seem to have good inclusion in this article. I'm open to a List of Appearances if that's of interest? the_undertow talk 06:02, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
Note, I don't want to say that me being 'open' is my way of saying we can't put it back into the article. I was just making a suggestion. I'll go along with whatever consensus is. My bad. the_undertow talk 06:06, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Sections

After discussion with LaraLove on IRC, I think we need to adjust the sections. In their current condition, their is technically only one proper section, which makes up several sub and sub sub so-to-speak sections. I suggest maybe splitting the comedy performances up into one section, then doing each appearance in a TV programme in a new line. It would make the article look a lot more organised, in my view, but I'm open to discussion. Qst 17:02, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

Makes sense. "Biography" is often dubious in a biography. –Pomte 17:25, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
I've trimmed it a bit. The comedy section needs to be restructured before those are removed. I'll work on that now. Lara❤Love 20:58, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
Okay, I can be found in #Ariel'scorner if you have time to come on to IRC, LaraLove. Qst 21:10, 24 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Section Merge

Anyone else think it would be a good idea to somewhat merge 'Early Life' and 'Personal Life' sections somehow? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 61.68.181.242 (talk) 06:02, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

Typically they are separate. It starts with the early life (pre-notability), leads into their career, followed up by the personal life, which is typically any non-career-related info and whatever they are currently doing. Keeps a chronological order. Lara❤Love 06:10, 29 January 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Reference formatting

Grouping ref info for multiple refs into one makes for a very confusing note. Perhaps for those of say three or more in one, we can add a statement and bullet the refs as exampled in my most recent edit. Thoughts, ideas? Lara❤Love 20:51, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

I would have gone for line breaks with <br>, but this looks more organized. –Pomte 00:21, 1 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] References

I've noticed that some references in this article are in-line, and others using one line per parameter. I strongly recommend using either one or the other, as otherwise, it makes the article a lot more confusing to read. Qst (talk) 20:25, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Doesn't bother me. I think our time can be spent doing more productive things, and it happens that I can produce citations a lot faster in one way over the other. The wikimarkup is going to be confusing to read either way, but feel free. –Pomte 00:21, 1 February 2008 (UTC)
I agree that it seems unnecessary to make this consistent. Some users prefer templates, while others, such as myself, prefer to do manual citations. It doesn't seem necessary to force it be done one way or another. Lara❤Love 06:33, 4 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] GA on hold

Powderfinger > Tool.

  • "Keenan would only see him a "little more than once a year"." - does his need a quote?
  • "and realizing that he would not go through West Point "undetected" for his dissidence" - what's all this about dissidence? First mention...yeah
    • The definition of dissidence is "Disagreement, as of opinion or belief; dissent." The previous section of this sentence reads, "but declined an appointment to West Point and instead chose to pursue a music career due to disillusionment over his colleagues' points of view".
  • "Tool released their 1993 debut album, Undertow, in the United States" - what a crappy album title :D Ass.
  • Rather than just slamming in a The Metal Observer quote, why not talk about the merits of Ænima?
    • Because this article is about Maynard, not Ænima.
  • You might want to note that "Ænema" is not the album title. I got confused!
    • It is noted. The start of the paragraph reads "In October 1996, the band released their second studio album, Ænima, ..." That clearly states the album as being spelled with an 'i'.
      • I wouldn't call it clear, but yeah. Maybe I need a bathrobe; I hear they improve vision. dihydrogen monoxide (H20) 10:38, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
  • "Keenan had this to say" - change to "Keenan said" or similar
  • "However, 10,000 Days was received less favorably by critics than its predecessor Lateralus had been." - Why?
    • People can go to the article for the band or album for that information. This is about Maynard.
  • I've heard of A Perfect Circle, which gives me the feeling there might be more info about them. I may be wrong...
    • It's in their article. Tool has been given due weight, considering most of his adult life has been spent as a member of Tool. The past 18 years. APC was just formed in the last eight.
  • "In 2003, they eventually released a successful follow-up, titled Thirteenth Step, a reference to twelve-step programs (many of the songs were written from the perspective of recovery)" - Remove the brackets and reword (it isn't clear at the moment)
    • I don't understand the confusion.
      • It'd probably read better IMO as "Eventually, in 2003, they released a successful follow-up, titled Thirteenth Step, a reference to the twelve-step programs that many songs were written as a reference too." (or similar). dihydrogen monoxide (H20) 10:38, 11 February 2008 (UTC)
  • "Puscifer also contributed a song to the Underworld sequel in 2006, Underworld: Evolution, on a "The Undertaker (Renholder Mix)"" - the "on a" makes no sense here
  • "Renholder being the reverse of "Re: D Lohner" (a random email title "Regarding: Danny Lohner"). - needs ref, and clarification per the above....(maybe it's just me)
  • "arrangement of the fibonacci numbers[39] " - move ref to end of sentence
    • "on a platform towards the rear of the stage[43] " - again
  • "Best known is a routine Hicks did on" - routine is a dab. Do you need to wlink it?
  • "In February 2005,..." - ref needed

Leave a note on my talk page when done. Cheers, dihydrogen monoxide (H20) 09:30, 10 February 2008 (UTC)

I've commented on some and struck through those I corrected. Lara❤Love 19:00, 10 February 2008 (UTC)
I think it's all corrected now. Lara❤Love 19:41, 11 February 2008 (UTC)

Passing. Do something about the stuff below though... dihydrogen monoxide (H20) 09:20, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Haha, will do. Thanks, DM. :D Lara❤Love 14:40, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Stand up comedy

Sorry if this has been discussed, I think I rememeber it being discussed months ago but do not remember what was decided. This is currently in the article (as well as a mention in the lead):

Keenan did stand-up comedy on improv nights in comedy clubs in Los Angeles during that time, delivering—according to a friend of Hicks—inspiring comedy.

The source for this is an interview with Kevin Booth [2]. However, in this interview with Keenan he states:

I'm on stage often. And sometimes I get laughs. Unfortunately I'm not really trying to get laughs. So that's bad, right? Stop laughing. It hurts my feelings. Actually I never did stand up. I'm not that funny. I did some bit parts in random sketches. But that was ages ago...

I think I remember someone saying this may be Keenan being a little circumspect or cute with his language. It's true, whatever the band states should be taken with a grain of salt--see lachrymology (which *sigh* is unfortunately is now a redirect--article here). However, I admit that I find it very likely he never did stand up comedy. If he did it was probably as Booth stated, at an improv night, where literally anyone can get on stage and mumble. But that's just my speculation.

Nevertheless, I'm not sure how notable performing at an improv night is; it seems sort of trivial. At the very least I think the discrepancy should be noted in the comedy section and the information about him being a stand up comedian taken out of the lead.

Someone asked about this a long time ago, but in addition to that I seem to remember that this was discussed before. I can't remember what was decided, so please excuse me if I am rehashing old and decided issues.

Also I understand that a lot of work is being done to get this to GA so it may be low down on the ladder of things to address.

hugs and kisses, daveh4h 07:23, 12 February 2008 (UTC)

Good point. I actually discussed this with another editor last night. I think he's being facetious in the later interview. I mean, clearly he is in a joking mood with regard to saying he's not funny while intentionally being funny. He's known for his antics. I believe the article should stay as it is for the following reasons:
  • I believe it's absolutely relevant that he did stand-up comedy on improv nights. I think his humor is an important aspect of his personality that we explain in the article. The fact that he's done stand-up that was said to be "inspiring" is an important detail.
  • As far as the lead, it serves as a good introduction to his friendship with Bill Hicks, which is certainly an important detail. Perhaps it should be reworded to remove the implication that he worked as a stand-up comic.
I'll work on the lead today. Of course, I'm just one opinion, so if others believe it should be removed or otherwise changed, that's certainly fine. Whatever consensus is reached. Lara❤Love 14:39, 12 February 2008 (UTC)


[edit] Three songs?

When talking about 10000 days this article says; "his mother is the inspiration for three tracks on the album." However, it only mentions wings for marie and 10000 days. So is this a typo, or is there a third track that just isn't mentioned? If its the latter, i think we should mention the third track to avoid confusion. --Pritoolmachine2806 (talk) 17:05, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

jambi maybe? i heard that it was to do with him wishing away all of the fame and fortune and other "band stuff" to be with his mother. "if i could i'd wish it all away, if i thought tomorrow would take you away" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.108.73.47 (talk) 08:52, 28 February 2008 (UTC)
I'm sorry for the delayed response. You are right, it's two tracks, not three. Good catch. Thank you. :) Lara❤Love 20:09, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Peer Review-type feedback

Moved review to Wikipedia:Peer review/Maynard James Keenan/archive1#Comments from Casliber
Lara❤Love 20:48, 21 March 2008 (UTC)

[edit] Hubbard

The context here is forced and disrupts the chronological flow. This can give off the idea that the event inspired the lyrics, when the source doesn't establish this. –Pomte 02:28, 15 April 2008 (UTC)

WP:SOFIXIT; it's a free encyclopaedia, you dig? Skomorokh 02:39, 15 April 2008 (UTC)